Outta here 2 2

[MarkFeld]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:24 PM, VKurtB said:

This is a complete copy of a post ON CoinTalk, the place that our recent departures apparently prefer. The post below is by an EXTREMELY LONG TERM member known as “CoinCorgi” who is a THINKER, not a marketer :

”Not my job to teach anyone anything, especially when there is infinitely better, more accurate and readily available answers on the internet. It'd be much more beneficial to society to teach the novices how to do their own research, critical thinking and all of that stuff (the ol' “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.”). When I had a question, more often than not, my Dad (and Mom) would just tell me to "look it up", or just leave me in the library while they went and ran their errands, etc. Ya can't hear if your mouth is open. (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/some-of-us-dont-appreciate-honesty.400752/)

No one said it was anyone’s job to teach and educate, here, or on any other forum. Some of us enjoy it and get a great deal of satisfaction doing so, however. There’s nothing wrong with a middle ground of answering questions and at the same time, encouraging others to do their own research and thinking.

[VKurtB]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:03 PM, MarkFeld said:

No one said it was anyone’s job to teach and educate, here, or on any other forum. Some of us enjoy it and get a great deal of satisfaction doing so, however. There’s nothing wrong with a middle ground of answering questions and at the same time, encouraging others to do their own research and thinking.

My firmly held belief is that people who have SOMETHING to sell, whatever that is, whether coins, services, books, or whatever, approach forums with a different viewpoint from those who do not. I simply don’t have much use for the sellers, and not coincidentally, they have little use for me. So be it. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by VKurtB

[MarkFeld]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:08 PM, VKurtB said:

My firmly held belief is that people who have SOMETHING to sell, whatever that is, whether coins, services, books, or whatever, approach forums with a different viewpoint from those who do not. I simply don’t have much use for the sellers, and not coincidentally, they have little use for me. So be it. 

You’re free to attribute whatever motives you wish to those “who have SOMETHING to sell”. Whether you’re being fair in doing so isn’t nearly as important as whether they’re helpful and if so, how helpful. And while you don’t have use for certain posters, that doesn’t mean that others can’t benefit significantly from them. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:50 PM, MarkFeld said:

You’re free to attribute whatever motives you wish to those “who have SOMETHING to sell”. Whether you’re being fair in doing so isn’t nearly as important as whether they’re helpful and if so, how helpful. And while you don’t have use for certain posters, that doesn’t mean that others can’t benefit significantly from them. 

I’m not the one suggesting THEY be expelled, but THEY are the ones suggesting I be expelled. I just refuse to shed a tear if THEY decide to leave. I have ZERO warning points and the majority of posters like my posts. I think I’ll just choose to wave “buh bye”. 
 

Ironically, it’s RWB who has the class to stay. Good on ye, Roger. Yes, Roger and I have HUUUGE disagreements, but I also shower some of his posts with likes. It’s not personal. It’s issue by issue. But others can’t handle that. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by VKurtB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:56 PM, VKurtB said:

The ANA, which @The Neophyte Numismatist apparently has a need to denigrate, has over 26,000 active members, even more than when change contained silver. What does this board have in regular contributors? A few dozen maybe? This AIN’T the hobby guys. It’s what you’ve tried to create as your own private club where you get to expel anybody who won’t play your game. What appointments have YOU received? What volunteer work do YOU do for the hobby? There are 13 National Volunteers that work for the ANA, … thirteen! Do you have ANY IDEA how “looked down upon” the Internet version of the hobby is? Cindy Wibiker, the long time Director of the FUN show, in her speech tore the Internet hobby another orifice. You guys are NOT THIS HOBBY.

I think the ANA is great!  I have learned a lot from the ANA, interesting a lot of it online.  I am not trying to be the hobby.  I am trying to be a collector in a hobby.  I would like to help new collectors understand things.  We all have something that we can share.  I am not of the belief that no one person can be the hobby.  I know you don't share my sentiment, and make that obvious at every turn.

For volunteering, I am helping my boys and the rest of the Den earn their numismatic badges.  They have to create a modified type set, and we are going to do nickels (and they have to explain the rest).  I am new to the hobby, so I am doing what I can.  If you have an half cent to attribute, I have a thread and can help you out there, too.

Personally, I think you should just stop while you are behind.  This is not a good look.

[VKurtB]

On 11/7/2022 at 5:51 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I think the ANA is great!  I have learned a lot from the ANA, interesting a lot of it online.  I am not trying to be the hobby.  I am trying to be a collector in a hobby.  I would like to help new collectors understand things.  We all have something that we can share.  I am not of the belief that no one person can be the hobby.  I know you don't share my sentiment, and make that obvious at every turn.

For volunteering, I am helping my boys and the rest of the Den earn their numismatic badges.  They have to create a modified type set, and we are going to do nickels (and they have to explain the rest).  I am new to the hobby, so I am doing what I can.  If you have an half cent to attribute, I have a thread and can help you out there, too.

Personally, I think you should just stop while you are behind.  This is not a good look.

I have only begun to dabble in Half Cents. I am still in the “reading” stage on them. I think I have three or four, but all are better condition, in less special dates. I metaphorically “stole” them at auction when most bidders were hoarding silver. If I get to collecting them seriously, if I live long enough, I’d love to get your take. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by VKurtB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

If I were to buy one book on half cents, it would be "The Half Cent, 1793-1857: The Story of America's Greatest Little Coin," by Bill Eckberg.  The information and analysis in that book is top notch.  It really is a great book.  

I would be happy to provide my take to anyone who wants to get into the series.  

[zadok]

On 11/7/2022 at 5:50 PM, MarkFeld said:

You’re free to attribute whatever motives you wish to those “who have SOMETHING to sell”. Whether you’re being fair in doing so isn’t nearly as important as whether they’re helpful and if so, how helpful. And while you don’t have use for certain posters, that doesn’t mean that others can’t benefit significantly from them. 

...true, but some offer nothing of significance to anyone n contribute nothing to the hobby...those should take their babble n distraction to a social media forum....

[VKurtB]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:07 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

If I were to buy one book on half cents, it would be "The Half Cent, 1793-1857: The Story of America's Greatest Little Coin," by Bill Eckberg.  The information and analysis in that book is top notch.  It really is a great book.  

I would be happy to provide my take to anyone who wants to get into the series.  

How does a self-described neophyte (unless you’re speaking ironically, which I’m into) somehow get to concentrate on Half Cents? Not that there’s anything wrong with it; I’m just curious. 

[zadok]

On 11/7/2022 at 8:23 PM, VKurtB said:

How does a self-described neophyte (unless you’re speaking ironically, which I’m into) somehow get to concentrate on Half Cents? Not that there’s anything wrong with it; I’m just curious. 

...as a matter of fact, u just may have planted a seed of at least some fruition...u should start a thread on "how did u begin in the numismatic hobby n why do u collect what u collect", it would be similar in nature to the present thread on "which 3 commemoratives r ur favorite"...a thread that offers the opportunity for all forum members to participate at a very non-scientific level, i personally believe that is the kind of threads the host had in mind when they established n donated this thread to the hobby community....

[VKurtB]

To @The Neophyte Numismatist, this is a quote from the review of Ekberg’s book as seen on Wizardcoinsupply.com. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this kind of language describing MANY numismatic books by comparison:

”Among the literature of early American copper as a whole, we have had homey narratives littered with pseudoscience, and ex-cathedra pronouncements aplenty. We have also had way too much 'history' written in the past subjunctive: narratives introducing each unsupported assertion with a phrase such as, 'Surely there would have been. . .'”

Ya hafta love that, … poo. 
 

Also, and I know this is silly to some, the fact that it’s a hard cover book soooooo pulls me in. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

On 11/7/2022 at 8:31 PM, zadok said:

...as a matter of fact, u just may have planted a seed of at least some fruition...u should start a thread on "how did u begin in the numismatic hobby n why do u collect what u collect", it would be similar in nature to the present thread on "which 3 commemoratives r ur favorite"...a thread that offers the opportunity for all forum members to participate at a very non-scientific level, i personally believe that is the kind of threads the host had in mind when they established n donated this thread to the hobby community....

Thats a wonderful idea. I would really enjoy reading everyones responses. I would enjoy contributing to a thread like that also. I wrote why I took an intrest in quarters in the introduction of my registry set. Never found a thread on it in the actual forum. I always wondered why the members on here chose their favorite coins to collect and how they got started and so on. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 11/7/2022 at 8:23 PM, VKurtB said:

How does a self-described neophyte (unless you’re speaking ironically, which I’m into) somehow get to concentrate on Half Cents? Not that there’s anything wrong with it; I’m just curious. 

The shortest explanation is - I have evolved over a short time.

More context:  I started CRH in 2020, and got into type collecting when I could not get coins during the "coin shortage." I quickly found I liked the old copper coins the best, and as a result found that I could afford many more half cents in higher grade than large cents.  The copper coins were among the first to be completed in my 7070, and I wanted more.  Half cents were the logical choice.

Even as I started collecting half cents, I really didn't understand rarity.  I started with braided hair because I could buy pretty nice ones for an affordable price and they had the lowest mintages (also the highest survival rates in high grade, but I didn't get that at the time).  The half cent was the coin that really taught me the difference between low mintage and rare (it really is such an important distinction).  That said, I like the braided hair series, but I would not start there again, as these coins are far less challenging than the earlier dates (although I am still looking for a suitable 1850).

I started buying books; Cohen, Breen, Manley, Eckberg, and most recently the Furhman (4-book series).  I made connections with some of the top copper dealers and experts, and started to do some cost analysis and build out my goals.  I immediately eliminated the 1796 and 1831 (debatable proof only), as they are just too expensive for my budget.  I decided with those coins out of the set, I could build a date set with some extra major varieties (spiked chin, etc).

It's been a lot of fun, and challenging.  There are some very tough coins ahead, but that's all part of the fun.

[VKurtB]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:38 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

taught me the difference between low mintage and rare (it really is such an important distinction).

There are some VERY serious people in the hobby who dispute this, including pretty much the entirety of the exhibiting community. To them, ONLY low mintage is rarity unless one can explain the difference through mass meltings or other such events. They are adamant that demand has zero role in rarity.  

[VKurtB]

I have never at any point ever engaged in CRH. It never seemed appealing as an activity, and what I would gain from it never seemed worth it. I do, however, buy BU solid date rolls when I can get them. My idea of CRH is sitting down with a BU roll of 1970-S cents and look for SD’s. That, and the “third type” that I swear should be recognized. 

[zadok]

On 11/7/2022 at 8:43 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Thats a wonderful idea. I would really enjoy reading everyones responses. I would enjoy contributing to a thread like that also. I wrote why I took an intrest in quarters in the introduction of my registry set. Never found a thread on it in the actual forum. I always wondered why the members on here chose their favorite coins to collect and how they got started and so on. 

...u r welcome to initiate the thread my friend....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/6/2022 at 9:15 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Been too much nonsense and irrelevant posts, and other than the research posts from RWB, there just seems to be too much worthless junk to wade through. I'm sure Ricky Rooster can step right up and provide accurate info to the new collectors who really want to learn (at least the few of them that aren't trolls or alt users).  I'm sure his posts will continue to be as useful as always.  Best of luck to you all Outta here

Because of more total posters, I see more relevant threads of the kind you seek over at CU, CT, etc.  But they have their share of downtime and OT threads.

I've done my best to resuscitate old threads while creating new ones on coins I have interest in (Saints, Morgans) and topics regarding the intersection of our hobby and financial markets.  Sometimes I get a winner (73 pages on Roger's book) and sometimes it's a clunker (threads of 1-2 pages over a few years).

I hope you stay and just are more selective in what threads you open and/or read.  I enjoy your commentary.

[Hoghead515]

On 11/8/2022 at 1:47 PM, zadok said:

...u r welcome to initiate the thread my friend....

It would be an honor. I just hope people will contribute to it and it dosent get buried somewhere at the bottom of the list. Ill think on it tonight and think of how to word it to make people more intrested in it. Thank you my good friend. 

[VKurtB]

I feel I’ve told this story before. In 1956, my father, ALSO Vincent K. Bellman, 1922-2017, (middle name one letter different) attn: @The Neophyte Numismatist , bought Alton E. Bowers Photo Service in Reading, PA from (duh!) Alton E. Bowers. In 1963, he hired a gentleman to work in the black and white lab, which had been in the building since the war. That man, named Richard (I’m right now not recalling the last name.) who was an avid numismatist. I was 8 years old at the time and I WAS a Cub Scout in Reading, PA’s Pack #8.  Richard got me the Boy Scout Merit Badge handbook for Coin Collecting, the 1964 Red Book, (still have it), and that tan soft covered book on grading (known by the two authors’ names) and offered to mentor me. He was active in the Reading Coin Club (now defunct) (many have seen their 1970, [edit: it was 65, not 70], medal depicting a pagoda). He took me and my dad to a couple of club meetings and their annual show, where may dad and I both “got the bug”, but me much harder. Dad already had a couple of peanut butter jars full of Morgan and Peace dollars. People used them in everyday commerce at face value, and he salted them away. Richard suggested my dad buy 10 1963 Proof Sets (@ a whole $2.10 each). When they arrived from the Mint, Richard brought a classic 5-hole Capital Plastics holder to work and mounted one of those 1963 proof sets in it. My dad gave it to me. I am looking at it right now, in 2022. That was my start. I STARTED with proof coins. 
 

When my dad died in 2017, my youngest sister got what was left of the business, my eldest sister got literally everything else, and my middle sister and I got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. She was written out because she married a wealthy man, and I was written out because I went to work in government. We don’t have to guess; it’s in black and white. My dad’s BROTHER died in 2019 at age 101, setting up his estate as a trust for his common law wife, who died early this year. Since not even one dollar of that estate was touched, the proceeds are going to 5 “outdoor life” (hunting and fishing) clubs, plus my middle sister and me (contingent beneficiaries). My inheritance from my uncle is undergoing PA Atty. Gen. review, but is going to be WELL into seven figures. My wife and I intend to live well, and my boy will start his marriage without student debt. He also is a certified ANA Exhibit Judge, in European Coins. His first judging panel was side by side with Arthur Fitts of Boston. Arthur is well into his 80’s. My son is in his 20’s. His primary specialty is Soviet Union. He thinks communists are extremely funny. I think they’re evil incarnate. I can’t help it; I was old enough to understand the Cuban Missile Crisis. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:55 PM, VKurtB said:

I feel I’ve told this story before. In 1956, my father, ALSO Vincent K. Bellman, 1922-2017, (middle name one letter different) attn: @The Neophyte Numismatist , bought Alton E. Bowers Photo Service in Reading, PA from (duh!) Alton E. Bowers. In 1963, he hired a gentleman to work in the black and white lab, which had been in the building since the war. That man, named Richard (I’m right now not recalling the last name.) who was an avid numismatist. I was 8 years old at the time and I WAS a Cub Scout in Reading, PA’s Pack #8.  Richard got me the Boy Scout Merit Badge handbook for Coin Collecting, the 1964 Red Book, (still have it), and that tan soft covered book on grading (known by the two authors’ names) and offered to mentor me. He was active in the Reading Coin Club (now defunct) (many have seen their 1970 medal depicting a pagoda). He took me and my dad to a couple of club meetings and their annual show, where may dad and I both “got the bug”, but me much harder. Dad already had a couple of peanut jars full of Morgan and Peace dollars. People used them in everyday commerce at face value, and he salted them away. Richard suggested my dad buy 10 1963 Proof Sets (@ a whole $2.10 each). When they arrived from the Mint, Richard brought a classic 5-hole Capital Plastics holder to work and mounted one of those 1963 proof sets in it. My dad gave it to me. I am looking at it right now, in 2022. That was my start. I STARTED with proof coins. 
 

When my dad died in 2017, my youngest sister got what was left of the business, my eldest sister got literally everything else, and my middle sister and I got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. She was written out because she married a wealthy man, and I was written out because I went to work in government. We don’t have to guess; it’s in black and white. My dad’s BROTHER died in 2019 at age 101, setting up his estate as a trust for his common law wife, who died early this year. Since not even one dollar of that estate was touched, the proceeds are going to 5 “outdoor life” (hunting and fishing) clubs, plus my middle sister and me (contingent beneficiaries). My inheritance from my uncle is undergoing PA Atty. Gen. review, but is going to be WELL into seven figures. My wife and I intend to live well, and my boy will start his marriage without student debt. He also is a certified ANA Exhibit Judge, in European Coins. His first judging panel was side by side with Arthur Fitts of Boston. Arthur is well into his 80’s. My son is in his 20’s. His primary specialty is Soviet Union. He thinks communists are extremely funny. I think they’re evil incarnate. I can’t help it; I was old enough to understand the Cuban Missile Crisis. 

Oh and @The Neophyte Numismatist, the next time you want to try to post my CV for me, you ought to, AT THE VERY LEAST, get it correct, not the BS you posted. 
 

I was the Director of Elections in Berks County, and only later was I a Research Analyst for the House Judiciary Committee. While I was the Director of Elections, BOTH Governor Schweiker AND Governor Rendell appointed me to the Help America Vote Act Pennsylvania State Plan Board in 2003. My fellow board members unanimously chose me as Chairman. Yes, I ran the hearings; I wielded the gavel. I was fair to all testifiers, to the chagrin of those on the board who wanted to control narratives. All viewpoints were respected and heard, unlike in that January 6 fiasco bullsnot committee. 

[VKurtB]

Yes, I spent the last 20 or so years of my career as a “policy wonk” public servant, for which I’ll apologize to no one, not my dead father, and certainly not to anyone here. It is my public service CV that got me invited to the October 2016 U.S. Mint forum in Philadelphia, where I BOTH participated in creating the Innovation Dollar series AND AT THE SAME TIME tearing Mint officials a new one for their stupid marketing. 

[Buffalo Head]

So, will your ALT be (Outta Here?)

[VKurtB]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:28 PM, Buffalo Head said:

So, will your ALT be (Outta Here?)

Sorry, I don’t know what ALT is. I mean, yeah, it’s a type of German “bier” made near Düsseldorf, but otherwise…?

But aside from not knowing what ALT is, I’ll bet I won’t care either. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:26 PM, VKurtB said:

Yes, I spent the last 20 or so years of my career as a “policy wonk” public servant, for which I’ll apologize to no one, not my dead father, and certainly not to anyone here. It is my public service CV that got me invited to the October 2016 U.S. Mint forum in Philadelphia, where I BOTH participated in creating the Innovation Dollar series AND AT THE SAME TIME tearing Mint officials a new one for their stupid marketing. 

Thats pretty interesting that you got to help with the innovation dollars. My sons and I really enjoy that series. We collect both the proofs and reverse proofs. I wish they would have kept the RPs in the same type of packaging they first started in. Selling them seprate in the package with all the cool facts wrote on them. I guess it must have been covid that made them sell them all in one plastic case like the regular proofs. 

 

 

[VKurtB]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:45 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Thats pretty interesting that you got to help with the innovation dollars. My sons and I really enjoy that series. We collect both the proofs and reverse proofs. I wish they would have kept the RPs in the same type of packaging they first started in. Selling them seprate in the package with all the cool facts wrote on them. I guess it must have been covid that made them sell them all in one plastic case like the regular proofs. 

 

 

I don’t want to overstate my role. There was a huge session first, then breakouts into committees, which then reported back to the whole. My committee was asked to answer what comes after the ATB quarters. We suggested Innovations be honored. Remember, this was the last days of the 2016 campaign, and most people figured Hillary would be President. We on the committee figured our idea would go nowhere.  I believe Treas. Sec. Mnuchin loved the idea and the legislation was drafted. 

[Crawtomatic]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, VKurtB said:

Sorry, I don’t know what ALT is. I mean, yeah, it’s a type of German “bier” made near Düsseldorf, but otherwise…?

But aside from not knowing what ALT is, I’ll bet I won’t care either. 

ALT = alternate account.  Like a burner phone for social media.

I'm not sure he intended the remark for you or the author of the topic.  It's just....there.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

And... He's back!

@VKurtB There is no way I can brag on you... the way YOU brag on you.  I am so glad you were able to weave-in a "WELL into 7-figure" inheritance, and name dropped Gov. Schweiker & Rendell.  I love that you personally "tore the Mint a new one for marketing", and I can see that they snapped to attention and changed their ways.  Very nice work.

Do you really not see it?  This is what I meant when I said you have lack of self awareness.  Do you not understand what a braggadocious fellow you are?  Do you not understand that you are mean spirited, and put others down to try to make yourself look better?

I suggest making peace with yourself (you will react and say you have, and no need).  But the fact is... that literally no one else here talks about how important they are, or how much money they have.  No one here talks about their connections in politics nor the rich and famous.  No one, but you... and, I have a secret... no one here is really impressed.  I can only imagine the virtual collective eye-roll to your shameless self promotion.  I know this, because it's a classless move on your part.  It's in poor taste, and you continue to shower yourself in bad looks.

Edited November 9, 2022 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[Coinbuf]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:37 PM, Crawtomatic said:

ALT = alternate account.  Like a burner phone for social media.

I'm not sure he intended the remark for you or the author of the topic.  It's just....there.

I think you will now have to explain to him what a burner phone is.  

[Crawtomatic]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:46 PM, Coinbuf said:

I think you will now have to explain to him what a burner phone is.  

Man, I was actually giving serious thoughts to the etymology of that term the past weekend.  Burner has been used before to describe guns either stolen or used in a crime.  That predates the existence of cellphones but the premise applies.  Something you use once then toss.

Then I started wondering 'why burner?' Is it because guns of questionable provenance may not necessarily be cleaned and serviced?  Resulting in a firearm malfunction causing....burns.  I think that's possible.

I want to say I even read in passing the usage of the word burner to describe a gun during the prohibition days.  But can't seem to find a reference for that currently.

[VKurtB]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:45 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

And... He's back!

@VKurtB There is no way I can brag on you... the way YOU brag on you.  I am so glad you were able to weave-in a "WELL into 7-figure" inheritance, and name dropped Gov. Schweiker & Rendell.  I love that you personally "tore the Mint a new one for marketing", and I can see that they snapped to attention and changed their ways.  Very nice work.

Do you really not see it?  This is what I meant when I said you have lack of self awareness.  Do you not understand what a braggadocious fellow you are?  Do you not understand that you are mean spirited, and put others down to try to make yourself look better?

I suggest making peace with yourself (you will react and say you have, and no need).  But the fact is... that literally no one else here talks about how important they are, or how much money they have.  No one here talks about their connections in politics nor the rich and famous.  No one, but you... and, I have a secret... no one here is really impressed.  I can only imagine the virtual collective eye-roll to your shameless self promotion.  I know this, because it's a classless move on your part.  It's in poor taste, and you continue to shower yourself in bad looks.

I have spent most of my life among politicians in Pennsylvania. He who does not promote himself, dies. It’s a culture. If it’s not YOUR culture, good for you. Must be a neat place. It’s never been MY place. No one gets anywhere waiting. You have to grab for EVERY DAMNED THING. The meek may inherit the earth, but they’l have to fight like heck to get title.  And yeah, THAT was how I was taught growing up. “Nobody ever hands you nuthin’, and most people are out to cheat you.” (My dad used far more colorful language. He was NOT a church going man. He was the most abrasive man I ever knew.) And my hometown is a gang shooting a day kind of place. It was ranked THE MOST ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED (poor) city in the United States the year my dad died. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by VKurtB