JKK

There is one. It's called the world coin can, and while it's highly unlikely to yield up your retirement, you can find some cool stuff and learn a lot.
Where it is: at your local dealer. Most dealers have such a can. They might sell its contents for 3 to 6 for a dollar. (3 is usually excessive in price given that I believe most of them pay a nickel  each for these.) At coin shows, many dealers have a world coin can. Funny how there is always some fat introverted old guy combing through it, taking his sweet time. What does he know that others don't?
How it is: The can is constantly changing. Many dealers replenish their inventory through collections sold to them by walk-ins, anything from Bampaw's Collections to really special stuff to more modern mint sets than the mind can comprehend. Most such replenishments involve some misc world coins, anywhere from one digit to three. The dealer knows what they are looking at, but they also do not have time to look up every world coin. They'll go through, pick out a few pieces they know are worth more (usually silver, or in truly rarely beautiful shape), and offer a pittance around 5c for the rest. Those end up in the world coin can and they are only lightly picked over until someone, perhaps you, shows up to do it right.
Why you'd care: because you can get 1800s coins, and sometimes older, without breaking a sweat. German Imperial stuff is very common, as is Filipino early 1900s. Most of it is very modern, stuff that came home from foreign trips or recent wars. But now and then there'll be something that slipped past the dealer, like the 2 real late 1700s Spanish piece I found one time. Rough shape, yeah, but bottom line is it's a Spanish Imperial piece. Also, since few dealers have any idea how to read older cashes, Chinese cash coinage is a very fertile area. (It's a lot more fertile than later Imperial silver, which seems to emanate from Phonystan.)
Yeah, you'd have to learn to puzzle out some new alphabets and scripts; it's not that hard unless you cherish ignorance. No, you still are not going to get rich. Yes, you can provide yourself with stuff to keep you busy for hours. No, you don't have to buy Krause, though their numeric systems and national devices are quite helpful; Numista and the NGC World Coin Price Guide can help you a lot. Yes, you can find gems, or at least something cool, most times you search it provided you don't do it every day (who does that anyway?). If you have a great relationship with your dealer, ask that they call you whenever there's a major influx into the can. Also, if you have completely picked over the can out front, ask if there's a larger bucket from which it's stocked. It might be a five-gallon bucket they can barely drag out front. You want to make that dealer your best ally? At some point, you'll find a silver coin they missed; rather than just shrug and pay the 20c or whatever and say 'yay me,' show it to the dealer and ask if they want to sell it separately due to the value. About 95% of them will smile, say nah, it's yours for the standard price, and think more highly of you.
There. To this there is a point. To painfully photographing damaged parking lot coins and imaginary doubled dies that are nearly always mechanical doubling, there is little.

There is one. It's called the world coin can, and while it's highly unlikely to yield up your retirement, you can find some cool stuff and learn a lot.
Where it is: at your local dealer. Most dealers have such a can. They might sell its contents for 3 to 6 for a dollar. (3 is usually excessive in price given that I believe most of them pay a nickel  each for these.) At coin shows, many dealers have a world coin can. Funny how there is always some fat introverted old guy combing through it, taking his sweet time. What does he know that others don't?
How it is: The can is constantly changing. Many dealers replenish their inventory through collections sold to them by walk-ins, anything from Bampaw's Collections to really special stuff to more modern mint sets than the mind can comprehend. Most such replenishments involve some misc world coins, anywhere from one digit to three. The dealer knows what they are looking at, but they also do not have time to look up every world coin. They'll go through, pick out a few pieces they know are worth more (usually silver, or in truly rarely beautiful shape), and offer a pittance around 5c for the rest. Those end up in the world coin can and they are only lightly picked over until someone, perhaps you, shows up to do it right.
Why you'd care: because you can get 1800s coins, and sometimes older, without breaking a sweat. German Imperial stuff is very common, as is Filipino early 1900s. Most of it is very modern, stuff that came home from foreign trips or recent wars. But now and then there'll be something that slipped past the dealer, like the 2 real late 1700s Spanish piece I found one time. Rough shape, yeah, but bottom line is it's a Spanish Imperial piece. Also, since few dealers have any idea how to read older cashes, Chinese cash coinage is a very fertile area. (It's a lot more fertile than later Imperial silver, which seems to emanate from Phonystan.)
Yeah, you'd have to learn to puzzle out some new alphabets and scripts; it's not that hard unless you cherish ignorance. No, you still are not going to get rich. Yes, you can provide yourself with stuff to keep you busy for hours. No, you don't have to buy Krause, though their numeric systems and national devices are quite helpful; Numista and the NGC World Coin Price Guide can help you a lot. Yes, you can find gems, or at least something cool, most times you search it provided you don't do it every day (who does that anyway?). If you have a great relationship with your dealer, ask that they call you whenever there's a major influx into the can. Also, if you have completely picked over the can out front, ask if there's a larger bucket from which it's stocked. It might be a five-gallon bucket they can barely drag out front. You want to make that dealer your best ally? At some point, you'll find a silver coin they missed; rather than just shrug and pay the 20c or whatever and say 'yay me,' show it to the dealer and ask if they want to sell it separately due to the value. About 95% of them will smile, say nah, it's yours for the standard price, and think more highly of you.
There. To this there is a point. To painfully photographing damaged parking lot coins and imaginary doubled dies that are nearly always mechanical doubling, there is little.

I can tell you why people get testy. It is the sheer level of fantasy and the patience worn away from giving people bad news, time after time, and getting varying responses from acquiescence to questioning to pushback to illiterate insults. Do this long enough, and jading will tend to set in. Try seeing it as we do.
Everyone has this idea that they will find Big Deals in rolls, or change, or something else obtained at face value. Varieties, errors, some special unique coin--they post daily here with parking lot coins, replated steelies, and shoddy counterfeits that they are certain are Very Special (and presumably valuable and interesting). Okay, that's where they begin. We begin from the reasonable standpoint that, if such things were really that easy to find, and that valuable, they would stop being either because everyone would have found nearly all of them by now. Even a casual read of the Newbie forum supports this, as people seek validation of their supposed errors and Really Special variations, and we wearily tell them no. And yet, in spite of all common sense and even a smidge of critical thinking, the next person comes along and wants to be treated as though we have never been asked these questions before.
The answer is yes, one can have the truth if one is willing to accept it, but no, one is not entitled to be cuddled while we break the bad news.
And I'm on the gentle end of that spectrum here. We've got people so crabby and narcissistic that they are not only completely insensitive, but they brag about that as a character strength. We've also got some saints who can do a little cuddling and encouraging, and I leave that to them. In my case I reserve it for people who show special promise, which is rare; the rest of the time I just don't keep engaging.
Nothing educates us in life like learning to rotate the chessboard and see it through someone else's eyes.

Not concerned about it. I knew his type would go there. Impotent threats are the only escalation available to someone who can't use reason and can't communicate. It works in their high school bullying habits and they expect it to work here, which it will not.

I'd keep it sealed and sell it to someone willing to pay a premium to waste their time on it.

Are you shooting for the Foo of the Week award? You're mounting a strong campaign. He's been collecting for at least twenty years. He was probably collecting when you were loading up your diapers.

The error is called pariedolia. It's very common on modern coins, but carries no premium.

The error is called pariedolia. It's very common on modern coins, but carries no premium.

I think it's hilarious you got so punked. Definitely send them all in to NGC. They love to slab plated quarters. Get some!

I think it's hilarious you got so punked. Definitely send them all in to NGC. They love to slab plated quarters. Get some!

Are you shooting for the Foo of the Week award? You're mounting a strong campaign. He's been collecting for at least twenty years. He was probably collecting when you were loading up your diapers.

I'd keep it sealed and sell it to someone willing to pay a premium to waste their time on it.

I'd keep it sealed and sell it to someone willing to pay a premium to waste their time on it.

No. 1c.

I'm the heretic here. An obviously modern coin with zero potential to be restored and which will only deteriorate further might as well die as the subject of an experiment that will prove to someone that there's no point in it. It's not like he picked a valuable coin and tried to make it "shinny." It's corroded junk, and people would tell him to spend it for 1c. He got more learning value out of it than that.
To me, the reverse surface looks replated anyway. Can't tell about the obverse, but the idea of plating only one side doesn't sound plausible, so I can't explain the obverse. A replated coin could have had rust underneath which then came through the plating (wear or whatever cause). Any way one looks at it, there's nothing anyone could do to give it value--except for a few people, perhaps, none whom would waste their time on it.
So I would say never clean a coin that might have a hope of being valuable. As in, never clean it until it's proven that no matter what you do, it won't be worth jack. In that case it might as well be an object lesson. Find an S-VDB with verdigris? Stay the hell off that and send it to the professionals for conservation. Found an 82 cent and certain it's a small date but it's a damaged mess? I don't see the harm, unless such cleaning is a gateway cleaning that leads to much worse ideas.

I see four coins, not just one. None of the four coins show reverses and none are zoomed and cropped, so there's nothing to talk about yet except that you clearly did not take time to look over the posting guidelines. You have no question, just a statement, so there is nothing to answer.

I'm the heretic here. An obviously modern coin with zero potential to be restored and which will only deteriorate further might as well die as the subject of an experiment that will prove to someone that there's no point in it. It's not like he picked a valuable coin and tried to make it "shinny." It's corroded junk, and people would tell him to spend it for 1c. He got more learning value out of it than that.
To me, the reverse surface looks replated anyway. Can't tell about the obverse, but the idea of plating only one side doesn't sound plausible, so I can't explain the obverse. A replated coin could have had rust underneath which then came through the plating (wear or whatever cause). Any way one looks at it, there's nothing anyone could do to give it value--except for a few people, perhaps, none whom would waste their time on it.
So I would say never clean a coin that might have a hope of being valuable. As in, never clean it until it's proven that no matter what you do, it won't be worth jack. In that case it might as well be an object lesson. Find an S-VDB with verdigris? Stay the hell off that and send it to the professionals for conservation. Found an 82 cent and certain it's a small date but it's a damaged mess? I don't see the harm, unless such cleaning is a gateway cleaning that leads to much worse ideas.

Very.

I'm of the school that believes there are plenty of dumb questions, as anyone who has spent five minutes on their local BegsDoor should be able to verify. However, yours were not among them. "Novice question" does not mean "dumb question." This forum's very title says that it's for novice "newbie" questions.

To me, if it's not one of the top three--ANACS, NGC, PCGS--it's what I call a JGS, "Joe's Grading Service." That's in the category of "anyone with a computer and some seed capital can decide he's (few women would be this dishonest, thus he) a grader, and has every reason to tell the submitter what they want to hear. Their slabs mean nothing and should receive no validation.
And yeah, this is one of the things that drive new collectors out of the hobby. You got thrown out mainly because he knew that being confronted in public was hurting his scam operation business. Being thrown out for that is a badge of honor. You could probably find him on Yelp, though, and leave him a lasting memory.

When I want to figure out a grade from MS-60-70, I go to my ANA Grading Standards book. It's pretty thorough. However, if you want to really kill it, there's another way. It'll take years, but so does much learning in the hobby.
There's a mag called Coin World that has two things in it I care about: a price guide and a grading article. While the price guide is pretty much high retail, I save them over time and put them in binders. By now I have a handy price history reference as a result. It takes little effort and requires minimal space. But the germane thing here is the grading articles. Every issue includes a guide to grading a specific coin type and grade range, with blown-up color photos just like we ask people to post here, and detailed discussion of why the coin achieved or was relegated to a given grade. So you might see one on IHPs from FA-2 to AU-58, which might have AG-3, G-6, VG-8, F-15, VF-20, EF-45, AU-50, AU-55, and AU-58 examples--and where the author, who was not always the grader (many were slabbed) agrees or disagrees with the grade it got. I keep these articles, sort them by coin type, and also put them in binders. After about five years the mag starts to repeat its coverage, but always with a new take, so I hang onto them. If I want to fuss out a grade, I've got some very expert guidance to supplement what the ANA says. Eleven or twelve years into it, I'm starting to see some triple coverage.

A lot of those little shows near me in the Willamette Valley (Oregon); most are run by local clubs and don't have too much use for the scummy sorts of dealers. Commercially run shows (there is one near me that operates quarterly) might not be so picky.

Sounds like you at least left him with a bit of a commercial paddling, which is all to the good.

To me, if it's not one of the top three--ANACS, NGC, PCGS--it's what I call a JGS, "Joe's Grading Service." That's in the category of "anyone with a computer and some seed capital can decide he's (few women would be this dishonest, thus he) a grader, and has every reason to tell the submitter what they want to hear. Their slabs mean nothing and should receive no validation.
And yeah, this is one of the things that drive new collectors out of the hobby. You got thrown out mainly because he knew that being confronted in public was hurting his scam operation business. Being thrown out for that is a badge of honor. You could probably find him on Yelp, though, and leave him a lasting memory.

When you post a question about a coin or coins, it's worth remembering that the people giving you answers--unless it is specifically about an NGC policy matter or submission--are volunteer hobbyists who do this for fun. They are not speaking for NGC; they speak only for themselves, and they want to help people. When you do a good job of posting your inquiry, you increase your chances of helpful replies, because you show respect for the volunteers' time.
Please do:
Ask a question, or multiple questions. We need to know what to focus on. Authenticity? Grade? Identification? Value? All of these? Think about your questions. "What would this grade at NGC?" and "What grade would you give this coin?" are two very different questions. If you ask the first one, only people who know a lot about NGC's ways have much to offer you. "How much is this worth?" is another nebulous question. Better: "What would a dealer pay me for this?" Or: "What would a dealer sell this for?" Post clear photos of the entire obverse, reverse, and if necessary the edge. If need be, add zoomed photos of specific features, but always clear shots of both full sides. Post all pictures of a given coin in the same thread. Accept that if you have photographic limitations, and you keep posting badly photographed coins, you'll keep being told they're not good enough to use to answer your question. You can't expect everyone to read all your threads and know your circumstances, be they poverty or Parkinson's or can'tbebothereditis. It's not their fault your photos can't or won't get better, even if it is also not always your own fault. Use a thread title that describes the coin(s), so that people who know the subject matter are likelier to read the thread. If you just inherited Bampaw's silver dollar collection which you can see spans the period 1850-1921, you could title it "Evaluating silver dollar collection 1850-1921." People who know a lot about those silver dollars will see it and be likely to help you. "Grading advice" is bad; everyone wants grading advice. "Morgan dollar grading advice" is good. "Is this fake?" is bad. "Is this Chinese silver coin fake?" is good. Post only once per coin. (If you have received a huge collection, and you want to start with a picture of the whole hoard with zoomed shots of parts, that's no problem. This guideline is intended to keep people from slamming multiple fully photographed coins into a single thread, making it difficult to figure out which one the answers are talking about. So if it's a hoard, and you single out some for close scrutiny, go with new threads for each of those.) If the picture files are too large in terms of data, learn to make them smaller without losing necessary information. Paint.net is a free image editor for Windows. Open your pictures in it, crop them, and save them as .jpgs. Look at what sizes they are now. This is too easy. If there is any question of identification or authentication, include weight in grams and diameter in millimeters. If you don't know the metric system, use an online converter. Weight is one of the key diagnostics of authenticity and unless the coin is too obviously bogus to bother, you will be asked for it. Just include it with your first post. Tell us what you know, or what you believe to be the case, about the coin. It's okay to be incorrect. Understand that the term "melt" does not automatically mean someone plans to melt the coin down, nor is anyone suggesting you should. It refers simply to the value of the metal for its own sake. Do not freak out when someone says "melt" about Bampaw's Morgan dollars. We really do not want or expect you to throw it in a blast furnace, all right? Use punctuation. Being easy to read works to your benefit. When you write a twelve-line paragraph with no periods or commas, people tune you out. For those who need reminders, this , is a comma. You use it to separate phrases, more or less. This . is a period. You use it to end most sentences. Hitting Enter will insert a paragraph break. You use this between series of thoughts. Live them. Love them. Use them. because ill tell u what really suxors is when some1 posts sententses like this 1 4 about half a page its impossibel 2 read and some people including me will prob not finish readin it which means u arent gettin as many respontses think about it ur only hurtin ur own cozz notice how stooped this reads ur in affect makin urself ten times harder 2 help and frankly its disrespectfull 2 assume entellegent people should do all that extra work 4 ur sake now kinely clean up ur act and rite like u at least got thru 6ixth grade im glad we had this little talk Come prepared to accept responsive answers. Brace yourself to learn that Bampaw or Opa, always considered the family's Great Numismatist, may not have been so great at this. No one seeks to offend your relative's legacy, but the coin must be called what it is. Be patient. No one who doesn't know the answer is going to post "I don't know." It can take days to a week for someone to notice. Remember that some inquiries may require research, for which volunteers are not being paid, and are doing as they have time. Expect that opinions may vary, even among experienced numismatists. Realize that if you're rude and/or difficult, your problem is not the people who take time to fight with you. Your problem is the people who, without a word, mark you down as someone not to bother with in the future--because you have no idea who or how many they are, and thus have no power to alleviate that diagnosis. Kindly do not:
Just post pictures without giving any indication of what you want to learn. Post glare-obscured, blurry, or otherwise poor photos. Post only partial pictures of errors or damage. Complain that your pics are too big to post. Use an image editor to crop and save them as .jpgs. Get defensive when told your pics are not good. Maybe you're bad at photography; maybe you don't have a good camera; maybe the photography gods just don't like you. If you can do better, do so. If you cannot do better, than just accept that this limits how much we can help you. Post a new thread for every photo of the same coin. Post new threads in the same forum, or other forums, with reference to the same coin. Once suffices. The shotgun approach makes one look impatient and immature. Use a meaningless thread title like "looking for advice" or "no idea what 2 do" or "plz help." Those tell people nothing about the discussion except that it was begun by someone who picks meaningless thread titles. Omit weight and diameter, unless they are completely irrelevant to your question. Get annoyed if you don't like the answers. If you disagree with them, fine; act on your views. Ask us to tell you how we know it's a counterfeit. While that's a legit question on its face, the problem is that even if you didn't mint the fake, those who make them are always looking for ways to improve. We frown upon supplying helpful feedback to criminals, and so should you. So no, don't ask us that. And if we tell you politely that we aren't going into detail, don't get annoyed because you don't like that answer. Grouse about not getting any replies. No one knows everything; no one has unlimited time; sometimes no one knows the answer. Come in telling how many Youtube videos you have watched about coins. This will lower your credibility. Use Photobucket links. If you do, don't anticipate that people will use them. Photobucket has been connected with numerous malware and virus infections. Spell 'nickel' as 'nickle.' Whether referring to the element or the five-cent coin, this misspelling is a very bad look. If you take the time to do this correctly, you can learn a lot more here than if you skip important steps.
If you do not take the time to do this correctly, some posters may decide that their time is better spent helping other people.
Lastly, here is a Cliff's Notes version that would take care of 95% of the most common disappointed inquiries. If you want to post yours anyway, fine, but just please kindly do not engage in a protracted and dullard debate when you are told that:
Your 1804 silver dollar is a bad counterfeit. Look up authentic examples and compare closely. Your 1776 Continental dollar is a bad counterfeit or a souvenir replica. Many were churned out. What you think is a double die is almost surely mechanical doubling, which carries no premium. What you think is a mint error is likely post-mint damage, and your coin is worth face value. Your "silver" non-1943 penny is plated, replated, has had the plating come off, is altered, or somesuch. Your "bronze" 1943 penny is altered somehow, and is worth very little. Your Greek "silver" coin with flanges sticking out of its edges is a bad cast counterfeit. Your cheesy-looking brass token is not gold, and is not a coin. Any clown can mint brass tokens with bad designs. Cleaning your coins is a stupid idea. Yes, even for you. You, too. If you ask how, listen to the people who tell you not to do so. If you cite Etsy as an authority, people will laugh their heads off with good reason. This is horrible for your cred. If you cite a Youtube video as an authority, people will laugh with good reason. This is bad for your cred. If you have more than three supposed error coins you found in change, and plan to post them all, the odds are overwhelming that none of them are mint errors worthy of note. If you keep posting these without seeming to learn, people might conclude that learning is not your thing. There, that rounds up the usual suspects. I'm not saying those answers are automatically always right. However, as the strongest probabilities, they should be presumed correct unless they can be proven wrong. If you have one child and something is broken in the house, not by you or your spouse, typically the child did it. If you can prove the kid innocent, fair enough; but you know the kid almost surely did it. If you argue about a "double die" at fatuous length when it's clear you don't know what one really is, you will look like the kid with soot all over him insisting he didn't really dig around in the fireplace.
Don't be that kid.
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