Would you open a mint sealed 50 year old bag of denver pennies to search for possible new die errors? 1 1

[Midwest Dozer]

if yes why?

if no why not?

[powermad5000]

I voted no. I would not open it to search for errors. I would open it to try to find one very high quality specimen in the bag. I think there is a better chance of finding a gem specimen inside the bag than there would be finding a mint error in the bag. The only thing is there might not even be a gem specimen in the bag depending on how roughly the bag has been handled and moved in its lifetime. Also, being it is a bag of 1974 D's, if there is an absence of a gem inside the bag, well, the value of the cents in the bag then won't be even a break even with the price paid for the bag unopened.

This is a crud-shoot just about as similar to buying an unopened roll, only on a bigger scale.

[cobymordet]

I would say no as well.  The odds are against you on all fronts.  For 50 years, thousands of more experienced numismatists have been toiling over the 74's and to my insignificant knowledge, there is no significant error/variety for 74d that has been found.  I would imagine the best you could hope for is a Die Clash or a fantastic quality specimen as PM5K indicated.  How were the coins stored for 50 years? - Humidity, poor housing, etc., etc., etc.  Sell it on that e-site.  . . . Unless you  are extremely bored, then you can show us all the goodies you find.  5,000 chances, good luck!

[ldhair]

I will say no as well. Searching a bag like this is more work than most understand. Gloves will prevent fingerprints but slow down the search. If you use your bare hands, have acetone ready for anything you do find. Next you have to think about what to do with the cents after you search them. I have three banks and they don't care to take them. Not many banks are setup with the equipment to count and roll coins. I have one bank that will take them for deposit to an account but they send them out to be counted and rolled. 

I still have a bag of 1995 cents that I will never search. It's made a good doorstop for the past 29 years.

[JKK]

I'd keep it sealed and sell it to someone willing to pay a premium to waste their time on it.

[Mr.Bill347]

I voted yes! Because the value of a roll of 1974 D cents is somewhere between 6 and 16 bucks on EBay so what do you have to lose? Might find a nice gem or something no one has found. Plus you’ll get the thrill of going through a mint bag of cents.

[RonnieR131]

 Do anything but what I did, give them as a present to a family member, and they in turn gave them to his girlfriends father. I vote NO, and give it more thought.

[Coinbuf]

No total waste of my time.

[Just Bob]

On 2/28/2024 at 7:26 AM, JKK said:

I'd keep it sealed and sell it to someone willing to pay a premium to waste their time on it.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[RWB]

Well, the owner could also have a CAT scan made to see that's inside the bag. If there was a cat, the humane thing to do would be to open the bag so the cat could get out, stretch its legs, and have a snack.

[zadok]

...why not, theres no premium on the bag anyway....

[powermad5000]

On 2/28/2024 at 4:45 PM, zadok said:

theres no premium on the bag anyway

We don't know that. We don't know what the asking price (or current auction bid price) is for the bag. It has not been stated in this thread. I can only imagine someone with less time in the hobby thinking there will be 5,000 totally pristine gem cents in the bag and willing to pay a ridiculous markup for it.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 2/28/2024 at 7:48 PM, powermad5000 said:

We don't know that. We don't know what the asking price (or current auction bid price) is for the bag. It has not been stated in this thread. I can only imagine someone with less time in the hobby thinking there will be 5,000 totally pristine gem cents in the bag and willing to pay a ridiculous markup for it.

Last three still sealed bags that I can find on ebay went for $250 OBO, $350 BIN, $285 BIN, all were sold in the last three months. Rolls seem to be in the $2-$6 range on ebay depending on the type of roll, hand rolled, bank, age, etc., and how many in a lot.

EDIT TO ADD: 

Open and painstakingly search each coin for minor doubling or similar minutiae, No. Open and dump the contents on the kitchen table and causally search for an interesting piece or some really nice looking coins, Maybe. 

Edited February 29 by Fenntucky Mike

[VKurtB]

“New die errors”!?!?!? Stop it, man. You’re killing me. 

[zadok]

On 2/28/2024 at 7:48 PM, powermad5000 said:

We don't know that. We don't know what the asking price (or current auction bid price) is for the bag. It has not been stated in this thread. I can only imagine someone with less time in the hobby thinking there will be 5,000 totally pristine gem cents in the bag and willing to pay a ridiculous markup for it.

...dream on....

[Henri Charriere]

Nin!  No!  Nyet!

Time-barred by Statute of Limitations.

(Ref:  recent post in topic "Unsolicited Comments" on U.S. World and Ancients forum)

[Midwest Dozer]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:22 AM, VKurtB said:

“New die errors”!?!?!? Stop it, man. You’re killing me. 

i truly wish i was like you. all that knowledge and just wasting away. it really is a shame you can spend this much time insulting someone instead of helping them. i didn't realize this is what the coin community accepted . i thought they encouraged people to join and have fun trying to find new varieties (like this) and things that were maybe missed over the years.  how about a 1974-D ddo fs101 like the 1997 fs-101. i put it on ____ and someone finally helped me instead of laughing at me.

[Henri Charriere]

"If no, why not?"

You're not going to hear this from anyone else, so you might as well hear it from me.

What you are about to read is what I really wrote. You don't have to do a double-take.  Ready?

I do not regard any U.S. cent minted after 1959, irrespective of Mint mark, to be real.  That means the vast majority of cents.  If we are talking 1909 to 1959, you're on. If you were to knock on my door and offer that '74-D bag to me FREE, I would smile and say, Thank you, but no thank you!  I would not expect you or anyone else half my age (72) or younger to understand this. Not surprisingly, many of the views expressed by members above, comport with mine. (Only exception: mint bags of dimes, quarters and halves dated 1964, and earlier.)

[Midwest Dozer]

On 2/29/2024 at 5:14 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Last three still sealed bags that I can find on ebay went for $250 OBO, $350 BIN, $285 BIN, all were sold in the last three months. Rolls seem to be in the $2-$6 range on ebay depending on the type of roll, hand rolled, bank, age, etc., and how many in a lot.

EDIT TO ADD: 

Open and painstakingly search each coin for minor doubling or similar minutiae, No. Open and dump the contents on the kitchen table and causally search for an interesting piece or some really nice looking coins, Maybe. 

well i did the pain staking work and went through the bag one at a time. we did find 22 ddo fs-101 just like the 1997 ddo fs-101 i also found 68 that are ms65 or so and i have 16 that has 4-6 very small ticks in the jacket and as little as 2-4 on the reverse.. im hoping they grade better than 67 well see. thanks for the advise

[Midwest Dozer]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:08 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

well i did the pain staking work and went through the bag one at a time. we did find 22 ddo fs-101 just like the 1997 ddo fs-101 i also found 68 that are ms65 or so and i have 16 that has 4-6 very small ticks in the jacket and as little as 2-4 on the reverse.. im hoping they grade better than 67 well see. thanks for the advise

this is what they have for a ms67 lots of tick's everywhere

[powermad5000]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:12 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

this is what they have for a ms67 lots of tick's everywhere

Who is "they"?

If you are referring to NGC Coin Explorer, the photo is not commensurate with the grade. I questioned why in another thread on here and got an answer. NGC Coin Explorer was assembled using coins approved at the time for imaging which were not necessarily the most pristine coins available.

I will tell you 4-6 marks on the obverse and 2-4 on the reverse will only get you MS 65 at best if not MS 64 or MS 63. The photo below is the typical modern that has only 1 very small ding in only one spot (typically found on the rim). The fields are clean as well as the there are no hits anywhere on Lincoln or his bust. What might look like dings in the photo is dust on the holder. The one ding this coin has is on the rim at 3 o'clock. This coin only graded MS 66+. 67 has to have no nicks. I have two 68's and one 69 but the surfaces of those are literally unworldly and I bought them already graded. I have yet to pull a modern cent from the wild and have it grade as 67.

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 3/3/2024 at 1:08 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

well i did the pain staking work and went through the bag one at a time. we did find 22 ddo fs-101 just like the 1997 ddo fs-101 i also found 68 that are ms65 or so and i have 16 that has 4-6 very small ticks in the jacket and as little as 2-4 on the reverse.. im hoping they grade better than 67 well see. thanks for the advise

That you found 22 in one bag tells me that these are common, that apparently no TGP recognizes this variety would indicate that it is too minor to spend time looking for. In your question you ask individuals if they would search a 1974-D, $50 bag of cents, your findings haven't changed my mind. If individuals want to roll/bag search for minor varieties or errors that's cool, it's just not how I'd spend my numismatic time. 

[Coinbuf]

On 3/2/2024 at 5:22 PM, Midwest Dozer said:

i truly wish i was like you. all that knowledge and just wasting away. it really is a shame you can spend this much time insulting someone instead of helping them. i didn't realize this is what the coin community accepted . i thought they encouraged people to join and have fun trying to find new varieties (like this) and things that were maybe missed over the years.  how about a 1974-D ddo fs101 like the 1997 fs-101. i put it on ____ and someone finally helped me instead of laughing at me.

I see nothing in your photo that matches up to the photos and descriptions for 1974-D FS101 on Varity Vista.   In fact there is no mention of a doubled earlobe or photos of such shown at VV.   Can you provide any other site that references this feature?  Or perhaps, just as a guess, the person who helped you on the site you failed to name is mistaken.

When you ask a question on an open forum you should expect to get some answers that may not align with your ideas or goals.   There are a few roll searchers that pop into this forum from time to time, but they are not the core of members here.   So it is not all that surprising that many here see roll/bag searching as less than a top priority.

While I'm glad that you had fun and I hope for you that you get some nice grades, the coin you posted doesn't look (imo) to be a worthy candidate for grading/slabbing from your supplied photos.   Also in case you were not aware, NGC will not attribute your (assuming that you even really do have examples of this DDO) 1974-D FS101, it currently is not on the NGC list of varieties that they will attribute, which means that NGC feels it is too minor.   It is likely that ANACS might, and perhaps PCGS if this is listed in the current cherry pickers guide.

Edited March 3 by Coinbuf

[JKK]

I can tell you why people get testy. It is the sheer level of fantasy and the patience worn away from giving people bad news, time after time, and getting varying responses from acquiescence to questioning to pushback to illiterate insults. Do this long enough, and jading will tend to set in. Try seeing it as we do.

Everyone has this idea that they will find Big Deals in rolls, or change, or something else obtained at face value. Varieties, errors, some special unique coin--they post daily here with parking lot coins, replated steelies, and shoddy counterfeits that they are certain are Very Special (and presumably valuable and interesting). Okay, that's where they begin. We begin from the reasonable standpoint that, if such things were really that easy to find, and that valuable, they would stop being either because everyone would have found nearly all of them by now. Even a casual read of the Newbie forum supports this, as people seek validation of their supposed errors and Really Special variations, and we wearily tell them no. And yet, in spite of all common sense and even a smidge of critical thinking, the next person comes along and wants to be treated as though we have never been asked these questions before.

The answer is yes, one can have the truth if one is willing to accept it, but no, one is not entitled to be cuddled while we break the bad news.

And I'm on the gentle end of that spectrum here. We've got people so crabby and narcissistic that they are not only completely insensitive, but they brag about that as a character strength. We've also got some saints who can do a little cuddling and encouraging, and I leave that to them. In my case I reserve it for people who show special promise, which is rare; the rest of the time I just don't keep engaging.

Nothing educates us in life like learning to rotate the chessboard and see it through someone else's eyes.

[EagleRJO]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:22 PM, Midwest Dozer said:

... how about a 1974-D ddo fs101 like the 1997 fs-101. i put it on ____ and someone finally helped me instead of laughing at me.

Where did you get the FS-101 designation for a 1974-D Cent?  I don't see any 1974-D cents with an FS designation, NGC Variety Plus does not list any cents for that year, and Variety Vista only lists two minor DDOs for the 1974-D cent with no FS designation.  An FS designation (i.e. FS-XXX) for a variety like a DDO is a "Fivaz-Stanton" number assigned to significant varieties which are listed in the Cherrypickers Guide that have an added value.

If you mean it appears to have doubling of the ear lobe as shown in the picture you posted which looks similar to an FS designation from another year it doesn't work that way, and isn't a match with a 1997 1C DDO FS-101 anyway, and would likely just be "worthless" machine doubling discussed in detail at Wexler's site.  So you probably got some bad advice.

Edited March 3 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

Another thing just crept into my mind while we are on this subject. I like to use math in my daily activities. I always was good at it, and I liked probability and statistics while others in the class hated it.

In this case here, we have a bag $50 bag of 1974 D Lincoln memorial cents. 5,000 cents.

The mintage number for this year and mintmark is 4,235,098,000. Let that sink in for a second.

Using math, this one bag of 5,000 of that total number minted comes out to being 0.00011% of the total minted. The odds of winning the Powerball are 1 in 292,201,338. The odds of finding one special cent in this bag are 1 in 4,235,098,000. Mathematically speaking, one has better odds of winning the Powerball than finding one special cent in this bag.

One also cannot assume the assembled bag was all coins struck from the same set of dies as well.

Just some food for thought.

[cobymordet]

Midwest, you wanted opinions about what you should do with 5k pennies that are 50yrs. old.  If you ask, here, you will receive.  I, as a collector with limited financial resources, aka-poor (lol), I would not spend that kind of money ($250-300) on a coin year with limited possibilities.  Most collectors here seem to be in agreement not to crack it open.  I did check ebay and saw some 74d DDO's sold.  The highest was somewhere around $55, most however were $5-20.  The DDO in question, as stated previously, is not considered rare.  If your examples can show clearly DDO, and they are in AU+ condition, then you could possibly get some money.  I am not familiar with any other varieties for 74d, but whatever you can find is still most likely minor, maybe $10-30 range at best.  I recommend you check with NGC before you send any DDO examples to ensure that they will label it as such, otherwise it would a complete waste of money.  Over the past year, I have searched and collated over 32,000 pennies and have found only a handful of pennies that have minimal value.  You, in my minor-league collector opinion, were fortunate to have found 22 potential DDO's, minor or not and 60+ high quality pieces.  I would bet a penny you could not replicate that with another bag, and I don't recommend you try.  Sell what you reaped first.  If you clear $400, then take me up and buy another 74d and see what you get.  Finally, the bottom line is that this forum will answer you questions honestly and most colorfully provide you solicited and unsolicited opinions.  In the end, you the collector, are the only opinion that matters when it comes to what you collect and how you spend your money to collect.  No other opinion matters.  Good job on your bounty and good luck to the future!

[EagleRJO]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:50 PM, cobymordet said:

I did check ebay and saw some 74d DDO's sold

There are only 2 minor 1974-D cent DDOs that would not even be attributed by the TPGs and a host of them with machine doubling that are hawked on sites like Essy/eBay as being valuable to take advantage of less experienced collectors.  Unfortunately, some do fall for those ripoff listings.

[VKurtB]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:12 AM, Midwest Dozer said:

this is what they have for a ms67 lots of tick's everywhere

ANYONE feeding you false hope is NOT doing you ANY kind of favor or service. Numismatics is a hard field and the sooner you learn that the less the inevitable burn will be. Sorry, that's just the truth. Join the ANA, go to shows, take courses, read (most) books, and pretty much forget websites. Their incentive is to get clicks, not provide real information.

Edited March 4 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 3/2/2024 at 6:22 PM, Midwest Dozer said:

i thought they encouraged people to join and have fun trying to find new varieties (like this) and things that were maybe missed over the years

I never once encountered anyone serious in numismatics who encouraged this.