GoldFinger1969

On 4/4/2022 at 8:35 PM, Hoghead515 said:

They have a few chaperones. Hes flying into Las Vegas. Then going to Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, Capitol Reef National Park, Canyonland National Park, and Arches National Park.  

He'll have some super-dark skies so if he is into astronomy he should bring a small portable telescope or a pair of binoculars. 

WTH happened ?

On 4/4/2022 at 3:56 PM, VKurtB said:

I will NEVER claim to be an expert about gold coins in any way other than their sketchy legal history. I find grading them to be exceptionally difficult when compared with silver and base metals. Some (guess who) deny it but gold coins are just waaaaay more liberally graded. The softness of the metal (yes, it IS softer, sorry, it just is) leads graders to grade the stuff much more liberally. Who else says so? Brian Silliman. Literally. With English language words. I see so little gold because I actively AVOID it, that when I try to grade the stuff, I’m almost always too low. 

Gold coins -- at least Double Eagles -- are also larger than many coins so the fields show marks, dents, dings, and wear more easily.

Sunday Night GC Auctions:  

• A 1928 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle PCGS MS-66+ went for $5,232 (w/bp).
• A 1927 MS-62 NGC and a 1925 MS-62 NGC each went for about $2,155 (good proxies for bullion Saint pricing).
• A 1914 MS-63 went for $4,840.
• A 1913-S MS-63 CAC went for $7,425.
• A 1911-D/D Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle Repunched Mintmark FS-501 PCGS MS-66+ CAC went for $20,251 (this is a very unique label with the "FS-501" designation which I'll have to check in RWB's book what it means).
• A 1909/8 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle PCGS MS-65+ went for $48,375.
• A 1908 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle No Motto PCGS MS-63 OGH went for $2,250. 
• A 1907 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle MCMVII. High Relief, Wire Edge PCGS MS-62 CAC OGH went for $24,812.
• A 1907 MCMVII High Relief Details did NOT get any bids at the minimum of $7,500.

On 4/3/2022 at 4:01 PM, VKurtB said:

Funny, to me the repatriation story of Saints moved offshore is THE Saint story. It’s not poorly known to me, it’s the first thing I think of regarding Saints. Just one more story of practices used to intentionally evade legal requirements. Remember, to me, “nothing good or worth celebrating”.

You're an expert, Kurt.  The average person and even the novice collector has no idea that these coins only survived because they left the U.S.

If you mention their melting down from 1933-37 and ask how they surived today, most would assume American dealers, collectors, and families keeping a few coins each constitute the coinage.

On 4/3/2022 at 10:22 AM, VKurtB said:

They made it to today by DESIGN. Never forget that. To the extent that many didn’t, THAT is 100% politics, as is their initial creation. 

Take Saints.  Yes, their production numbers changed as the economy, world trade, the Dawes Plan, etc....came and went.

But it's fascinating -- and not very much talked about -- how so many of them survive to this day ONLY BECAUSE They were in Europe and/or South/Central America sitting in foreign bank vaults.  Then folks had to find them and bring them over, navigating treacherous legal and monetary mazes.

How many of today's coins are here because of one man, Paul Wittlin ?  His counterparts ?  It's a not well-known story.

On 4/2/2022 at 8:57 PM, RWB said:

This in the "Big Foot" and "Yeti" category of nonsense. 

It's Bigfoot and he's been proven to be real.  Turns out he is Andre The Giant and is controlled by a super-race of aliens.....

Oh wait, sorry....that was an episode of "The Six Million Dollar Man" from 1976 !! 

On 4/2/2022 at 7:55 PM, VKurtB said:

Crack open a copy of the Krause World Catalog. Politics is the primary story being told, page after page. Coins ARE political iconography. And we here are as guilty as anyone, maybe more so. And the Saints you love so much are a prime offender. All of it, 1907 to ESPECIALLY 1933. 100% raw politics. 

The story of the coins is largely commerce, economics, finance, and most important, their provenance...how they SURVIVED.

Sure, production and survival and usage relates to the economy, stock market, etc.  But it's not as interesting as to how our valuable and limited suriviving coins made it to today.

On 4/2/2022 at 3:46 PM, RWB said:

Objectivity is present -- just not in this type of "drama" and bias. It requires patience and expertise to find the truth.

Or you can just text me.....

On 4/2/2022 at 5:09 PM, VKurtB said:

I have always maintained that while it’s really tough to do numismatics without history, it’s downright IMPOSSIBLE to completely keep economics out of it. And where you find economics, you find his identical twin, politics. Pretending you can do numismatics completely without references to politics is frankly idiotic. 

When discussing bullion and inflation and things of that nature, sure.

But while I like talking politics and even economics as much as the next guy, I don't find it essential or even that frequent when posting about my coins or the topics I have interest in.

On 3/18/2022 at 6:24 PM, Coinbuf said:

I figured that there was more to the story than the op was telling.  

Not only "more to the story"....key material facts ?

Steve, you implied that NGC did you wrong and it appears you were grossly in error -- or worse, lying -- about how they treated you.  Maybe you didn't know they had refunded the $$$ to you.  We can't know for sure.

But they clearly did NOT keep your money for ungraded coins.  NGC has come on and very succintly and definitively stated what they did and it appears 100% legit and fair. 

You should explain what you meant and what your OP was about. 

I'm fascinated by hoards.  Have done lots of reading and research on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle hoards, not as much on earlier Liberty DE hoards which would cover the Civil War.

Biggest fraud since Cosmo Kramer ate that hot dog at the Bijou that was there from the Silent Era.  

On 4/1/2022 at 5:05 PM, RWB said:

Later Mint Directors found Howard to be a pest and Eva Adams had him removed from the Mint, along with the gold licensing work.

I read that he was a PITA with letting individuals or dealers bring back gold coins from ovrseas within the 1933 EO limits. 

I wonder how Paul Wittlin and his buyers (Paramount, Superior, etc.) as well as other dealers handled the guy.

Should have transfered Leland Howard.....

On 3/31/2022 at 11:46 AM, CoinJockey73 said:

I'm not exactly sure what i did, because i was banned with no notice, but I'm surmising that, someone spelled my name wrong in a comment. Looked funny, and I'm a chop breaker so i thought, some jokester is going to see that and mess with me, just like i would. So i created another account grabbing that screen name before anyone else could, to mess with me. I was never going to use it! Just protect myself. I'm not a big chat board person. I don't exactly know all the proper etiquette, so if that's some "unwritten rule", oops.

I never heard of that but then again I never heard of creating an account for that person.  But your response seems perfectly harmless and I don't know if maybe one of the Mods there who is a bit less "flexible" though you were doing it to attack the person and/or violate the No 2 Accounts rule.  

Since you weren't planning on using the account and since the reason for creating it was clear if not a bit off-beat, I would really think it might just be given a "Don't Do It Again" type warning.  Most of the Mods I have interacted with have been very reasonable and fair.  I don't know who you intereacted with but maybe if they get word of WHY you did that they might reconsider. 

I know that folks who had login problems a while back may have created new accounts merely to email them and the Mods were unaware of the login problems and just saw the 2nd Account thing and gave a ban and/or ignored it.

They must be sticklers for the No 2nd Account thing. 

BTW, that auction catalog has a nice glossy front-and-back cover.  It was $50 originally, I picked it up for about $12 in very good condition.

On 3/30/2022 at 1:37 AM, Ethan Stallings said:

I have seen coins in the thousands on Ebay that does not seem right.

Heritage and Great Collections are better.  I would be wary of Ebay listings, even sold items, unless there was active bidding.

On 3/29/2022 at 4:54 PM, Woods020 said:

so many of these guys blatantly lie knowing the truth it sickens me. The more I learn the more I realize how dirty the coin business is.

Which is why the TPGs are a MUST IMO unless we're all going to be good/expert graders like in the 1950's and 1960's and 1970's....which many of us can't be or don't have the time to pursue.

On 3/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, Woods020 said:

I don’t think they are going anywhere.

Have they developed....or are developing....GPS tracking within the holder that only you can track from a smartphone if it is a pricey coin ?

THAT might be worth getting on some 5-figure coins.

Phillip H. Morse Collection:  Got the Platinum Night November 2005 Heritage catalog of his collection of Indian Head Eagles and Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles which was the basis for the Morse coinage book which became the basis for RWB's Duckor-Morse Saints Book. 

Not as much useful information as the 2012 Duckor catalog, but I actually think the photos are better (better light angling, IMO) and it was not that expensive a catalog so I pounced.

On 3/28/2022 at 1:19 PM, RWB said:

Common date and condition. Market saturation.

It's tough to model a supply and demand curve.  But we know that the supply of MS-66's and MS-67's went up over 30-fold after the Wells Fargo Hoard.

If we go by Winter's Guestimate of Saint buyers -- 500 Registry Players, 25,000 Type Players, the rest retail investors -- then the Registry guys suddenly had MS68's (and 69's) take up 25% of their demand which was previously limited to MS-67's (there were no MS-68's I believe before the WF Hoard).  The rest were the cream of the MS-67's.  But the Type Players who previously had to settle for MS-64's, 65's, and 66's suddenly had MS-67's (about 1,500 - 2,000, ex-double counts).

So before Wells Fargo, 1908 NM's were like the other commons more-or-less in the MS-66 to 68 grades.  The influx in the higher grades for those who wanted them -- others still wanted a slightly-cheaper MS-64 or 65 rather than a much-cheaper MS-66 or 67 -- made them much more affordable.

On 3/28/2022 at 3:03 PM, DWLange said:

in fact Ohio was the center of US coin collecting for a long time

That seems a bit odd....I know you'd have a good enough number of collectors there from all the manufacturing businesses, but you could also say that of Upstate New York or Western PA.

I also would think just based on the finance-money connection, that you'd have alot more coin/bill collectors in Boston/NYC/Philly.

On 3/28/2022 at 1:19 PM, RWB said:

Common date and condition. Market saturation.

I know....it's just strange to see it basically 1/2 off or more from the other "common" dates which just aren't as common in that grade. 

Basically, 1908 NM's trade 1 grade higher for the same $$$.  You get your money's worth for sure. 

Sunday Night GC Auctions:  

• A 1908 NM MS66+ went for $3,825 (w/bp).
• A 1908 NM MS64 went for $2,280.
• A 1907 MCMVII High Relief Flat Edge MS-63 went for $25,694.
• A 1907 MCMVII High Relief Wire Edge MS-64 went for $36,844.

Still can't believe you can get a Super Gem MS67 1908 NM for under $6,000.