GoldFinger1969

On 5/24/2022 at 4:43 PM, VKurtB said:

You’ve been MIA for awhile @Quintus Arrius, but I was interested to see if you got to the NYINC show in January and what was your experience there like? I hope you enjoyed it. 

For that matter...did ANYBODY here attend ? 

Curious what attendance was like for dealers/the public compared to pre-Covid.

On 5/24/2022 at 3:36 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

Yes, you have an NGC 8. As mentioned in Conder's post, these slabs were only used for about 4 weeks. They are pretty uncommon. 

Did Conder post ?  I don't see it.  

4 weeks is super-short to utilize a new holder design...very surprising.

On 5/24/2022 at 3:08 PM, Elite Collection said:

Yeah, she took a tumble down the stairs and got a huge gash.

Has this been looked into, in the past ?  Relative to the condition in the rest of the coin (very nice! ), you wonder how that mark came about.  I wonder if it was even dropped or banged-around decades ago?

Doesn't look to be a bag mark/ding off the mint presses.  Now, the coin spent alot of time overseas and then with Fenton so who knows what happened then....and it wasn't in a protective holder (hope you have the holder, EC !!).

BTW....I think there was a debate at one point if the Farouk/Fenton/EC coin was the same as one that was called the "original" Farouk coin.   I would think that this coin with a noticeable dent in the leg would be easily ID'd.  Again, I don't know why some people say that the current coin is not the Original Farouk coin but I remember seeing the debate (maybe on the PCGS/CU boards?).

On 5/24/2022 at 2:58 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Now that I know who EC is, I regret making the comment.  No one wants to have his purchase critiqued. 

I don't think you can criticize the purchase.  It's the ONLY 1933.  If there were multiple 1933's available, then you can quibble on the choice to buy or the dollars paid.

You either buy the 1933 as-is...or you don't.  If you don't, you can't have The Ultimate Saint Collection in those registry rankings that some of you love (I'm not a registry guy myself, but will be watching EC's collection).

On 5/24/2022 at 3:08 PM, Elite Collection said:

Yeah, she took a tumble down the stairs and got a huge gash. But in the end, it doesn't matter. The 1933 DE is unique and John Albanese likes it. 

Hey, if you EVER get tired of it, I'll take it off your hands.   In the words of Homer Simspon...."Do you accept 3rd-party, post-dated, out-of-state checks ?"  

What's a TrueView holder ?  I know the TrueView pics that everybody likes (well, most of us)....what is a TrueView holder or pre-TrueView holder ?

On 5/24/2022 at 1:06 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Actually, there is. Case in point, that 1933. How else to get around that garish leg wound?

Would love to hear EC's thoughts on the gash in the leg.  Of course, defects or no defects, it's still the only legal 1933 Saint out there. 

Beggars can't be choosey. 

On 5/23/2022 at 8:02 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

"Ridges" of any kind when viewed with my frowned upon 30x loupe reveal, for lack of a better expression, lands and grooves, no? It stands to reason then that any reflectivity would vary at every interval when rotated horizontally and incrementally 360°. I have an MS-67 coin which exhibits this infliction marvelously but the luster has both its high and low points.

I think these ridges are MICROSCOPIC (at least on Saints) and you'd need alot more power than 30x to see them.....probably in the 1,000 - 5,000x range.

Well, EC and his high-end Saints is someone who makes up for the trolls. 

On 5/23/2022 at 8:30 PM, MarkFeld said:

You ran in the Derby?😉

Welcome back.

That reminds me of a famous "The Odd Couple" episode where Felix and Oscar go partners in a Greyhound race dog.  But the dog is washed up, though Felix is convinced he can turn him into a winner by entering him into the dog racing circuit:

Felix:  "That dog loves to race....and I'm gonna race him !!"

Oscar:  "And I bet you beat him !!"  

QUINTUS !!!   Welcome back !! 

Please check out Pages 56-57 for our friend "Elite Collection"..... very interesting posts.

On 5/23/2022 at 9:21 AM, Errorists said:

I'm sure they can make a living with over 50 million coins graded and over a billion dollars made. Scares me to think 500 million was spent on plastic holders at 10 dollars per holder. I bet they pay less then a dollar per holder. Anything more and they are getting ripped off.

The companies don't dislose lots of their information, but based on what CU told shareholders when it was a public company we know (1) profit margins were mediocre at best (2) the firms didn't make anywhere NEAR $1 billion dollars (even Dr. Evil agrees !  ).

On 5/23/2022 at 9:21 AM, Errorists said:

I'm sure they can make a living with over 50 million coins graded and over a billion dollars made. Scares me to think 500 million was spent on plastic holders at 10 dollars per holder. I bet they pay less then a dollar per holder. Anything more and they are getting ripped off.

There's backlogs right now.  Baseball card graders are in short supply; no more submittances as of a few months ago.

It's not as bad with coins, but when you consider the improvements in the tamper-proof slabs....the designs of the holders....the nice labels.....and the grade.....I think most think they are getting their money's worth.

Maybe on cheaper coins it's not something you consider cost-effective.   To each his own.

I'm happy to pay for a holder and grading on any of my $150 moderns or my modern/pre-1933 gold coins.

On 5/22/2022 at 10:00 PM, Errorists said:

 

30 bucks at the coin show. Sheez what a rip off. Some deal. Really makes me want to go this year..

OK, we get it....you don't think the fees for grading are worth the $$$.  Then just don't pay it.

The rest of us consider grading fees the price of admission to a hobby that without it would become The Wild, Wild West. 

And like I said....there are material and professional costs involved in getting a coin holdered.  How would YOU like to be told to provide your services or goods that you make a living on at 25% or 50% of your normal rate ?

On 5/22/2022 at 8:47 PM, Errorists said:

Are you for real for even entertaining this? If they told you 100 bucks you'd be ok with it.. 

If I had a very valuable coin....and they spent more than 20 seconds on it....maybe 45-90 seconds....yeah, I'd be OK paying that.

My uncle had a painting that cost about $25,000.  Had an expert come in to verify authenticity and confirm the value for insurance purposes.   Drove 20 minutes round-trip...spent 5 minutes in my uncle's living room with the picture.

Final Bill:  $750.  

On 5/22/2022 at 7:07 PM, Errorists said:

Are you for real less then a half ounce of plastic is more then 10 bucks?

Pricing is set at the margin.  Global supply disruptions have put an end to just-in-time inventory.

You have a secure holder....tamper-proof case....nice label.....grade.  It takes probably 30-60 minutes to process and produce ALL the product and information from the time they get your coin. 

They're not doing it for $10.  This isn't 1963. 

On 5/22/2022 at 12:57 PM, Errorists said:

10 bucks for slabs should be less then a buck. Rip off.. Need new slab supplier.

You checked the price of any petroleum or plastics-related product lately ?  You're not in 2019 anymore. 

And yes I know it usually costs (way) more than $10...but for that you get a nice holder....certification and grade....listed in the registry/archives for that TPG.....etc.

You have quality professionals (some of whom are on these forums) spending their valuable time on your coin.  They're not a charity, they have to earn a living.

Maybe on a lower-priced coin the $$$ are a nuisance to you.  For myself, usually buying nice silver or gold coins ranging from $150 - $2,500.....I'm happy to pay an extra $30-$50 or whatever it costs for the convenience, protection, and grade on the holder.  Light-years better than having a raw coin in a velvet pouch.

I haven't bought a coin book in a while...but I have bought some famous auction catalogs and others that had lots of sales of Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles, my main focus.  I've probably bought 4 or 5 auction catalogs the last year or so, including the Menjou 1950 sale.  Price, Morse, Duckor -- all Saint heavy collections -- also purchased.

Last book I bought was 2 years ago, RWB's Saint-Gaudens DE book.  Plan on re-reading it when I can read it in 2-3 weeks or so. 

Roger, why would some dies produce great luster (1923-D) and others lousy luster (1908 NM) ?  You would think that the striking and impact on the crystalline structure/ridges would be pretty much the same each year.

Unless the metal that determines the crystalline structure changed over the years, wouldn't you think luster would be pretty stable year-to-year ?  Maybe 20 years later, striking technology improves and dies act differently but even then I would think there's not much difference in the die or the equipment doing the striking.

I think of the 1908-S (one of the most beautiful coins) vs. the 1908 NM -- same time period, totally different luster appearances.

On 5/22/2022 at 11:23 AM, Errorists said:

No I'd go to the show if the coins were 10 bucks a coin to be graded.. Coin shows should have special deals not price gouging.

The slab itself -- without any grading -- is probably worth $10.  Some of these larger ones for 2 ounce and 5 ounce and 10 ounce coins can be pricey.

I've never submitted but I find, even where actual grading might be unnecessary (i.e., a modern proof gold coin) that it's convenient...makes it easy to handle....makes giving it as a gift or showing it to friends much easier than handing them a raw coin....etc.

Definitely worth the $$$ spent getting it graded and in a nice protective holder.  Some of the holders lay the coin out nicely and have nice labels, too.

On 5/22/2022 at 11:13 AM, Alex in PA. said:

This has been one of the most interesting posts I have read on this forum.   

You mean the debate on luster ?

I'm not finding one that matches up with your slab, JF.  I don't want to say it's a counterfeit because that would likely be an overreaction.

But the listings here do not match up with yours.  The black lined bars are usually BELOW the number.  But they're showing holders for a Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle so maybe for small denomination coins it was different.

https://www.ngccoin.com/about/evolution-of-ngc-holder/

I'm sure Dave @ NGC or another veteran can clear it up.

On 5/21/2022 at 5:14 PM, RWB said:

The radial ridges are part of metal flow in the die that are transferred to coins on striking. It's a matter of scale. Once the microscopic ridges grow too large the deterioration rate increases, and a die can quickly become useless.

Die failure, die collapse.....right ?

On 5/21/2022 at 12:25 PM, RWB said:

"Die states" are usually determined by degradation of detail. Excessive metal flow and crystal distortion in the die are causes. There is no clear line between "outstanding luster" and "die deterioration."

So you are saying that metal flow is a factor/contributor to luster besides the microscopic "ridges" outlined in your book ?

On 5/17/2022 at 12:10 AM, Cat Bath said:

Die states/luster have me confused sometimes. Take the 1909 "PR" saints -vs- the terminal die states of a lot of 1921/1922 where the coins just look dead. I'm thinking about flow lines & reflectivity.

Other websites/posters have focused on metal flows as the cause of luster.

On 5/20/2022 at 11:34 AM, Alex in PA. said:

This thread is another waste of disk space.

There's always the RWB Saints Book Thread !!