GoldFinger1969

On 5/2/2024 at 1:05 PM, VKurtB said:

Great! I’ll be there, even if I had originally intended not to attend. That would be the kind of thing that could drag my kiester to Rosemont again, and that’s saying something. Leave time for questions. I’ll be slinging some. It was a presentation at 2010 in Boston that inspired me to get into presenting. Topic? Gold standard. Everything old is new again. I am a strict Keynesian macroeconomically. A gold standard is a sure path to economic destruction. 

While I do find studying the Gold (exchange) Standard fascinating, I am just kidding -- I am not an advocate of bringing it back.  We see the problems with fixed exchange rates in the EU with the Euro.

On 5/2/2024 at 1:11 PM, VKurtB said:

The question is whether quality of strike and luster matter to a grade (yes, they OBVIOUSLY DO, and virtually the ENTIRE HOBBY other than RWB agree on this). When an esteemed author and researcher uses OPINION to so obviously lead new collectors astray, he needs to be viewed with a jaundiced eye. 

I disagree then with Roger, especially on luster.  To his credit, his Saints book has the best definition and analysis of what causes luster that I have ever seen/read.

Personally, I like a researcher/author who gives equal time -- or some time -- to other POVs.  He also did it with the MCMVII HR Proof controversy. 

On 5/1/2024 at 2:27 PM, zadok said:

...thats unfortunate...u mite try going to a local coin show when u can travel n ask sponsors if they r aware of any clubs?...as for ur books, some schools have student coin clubs n mite desire a donation?...

I think today's forums like these here at NGC have supplemented the old coin clubs.  Sill nice to meet in person, but you can post anytime on any topic and get people from all over the country to provide information.

Kurt, if I ever do a presentation on "Let's Bring Back The Gold Standard" -- I am going to make SURE you are in attendance !!  

On 5/1/2024 at 2:18 PM, VKurtB said:

I consider his completely and utterly out of step opinions regarding grading to be disqualifying for being taken seriously on anything else. 

He's a prolific author, researcher, etc.  Even if you or others disagree with his position on grading, it shouldn't mean anything on other topics.

I disagree with lots of positions by everyone here -- but I gather lots more useful information from them on other stuff.  Should I disregard useful information because of a disagreement on something else ?

On 5/1/2024 at 2:05 PM, VKurtB said:

YOUR opinion and 5 bucks will get you a Starbucks. Sooooo many of your opinions are out of step with the ENTIRE numismatic hobby. YOU are the outlier, not me. 

I don't know if the $5 will get him a Starbucks.  Stock getting hammered today because apparently people are balking at the prices !! 

Seriously, it's not a bad thing to be out of step at times.  We can debate how often.  I think we all have issues with various POVs in this hobby.

Personally, I like the debates and differences.  Makes things interesting.  Would any of us be posting here if every poster thought and posted the same as us ?  I wouldn't.

If anybody wants to see my raw preliminary presentation and offer feedback, just let me know and when I have a 1st draft ready for review, I'll let you know.  Just PM me.

It is of course on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles. 

Regardless of PL/DPL pricing...the MS-70's sold by RCTV for $4,700 are WAY above FMV. 

However, anybody who can't verify the price is just asking to be separated for their money.  At least they are getting a very nice coin and a good story, even if they are overpaying.  There are scams out there where you lose 80-100% of your money.  Here you're overpaying by about 25-35% or so.

On 4/30/2024 at 8:39 PM, Henri Charriere said:

RE:  (MMIX) 2009 G$20.  ULRA HIGH RELIEF        MS 70 DPL $6,895.

DPLs by NGC are apparently rarer than PL's by PCGS.

The PL results in a 25-35% boost in price; not sure what the DPL does.  The near-$7K price you cited seems high, a relic from years ago when the prices were much higher.  I'm seeing recent sales the last few months on HA for ~ $3,200 (including bp).

How much of a premium do folks pay for these ?  Is there a reason -- it's not even a coin or commemorative, just an irregular-shaped block of metal AFAIK ?

On 4/30/2024 at 6:51 PM, samclemen3991 said:

@zadok.  To the best of my knowledge the last coin club in my hometown ended when it's founder, a man named Glenn died in 1982.

Wow, that's a long time pre-internet to be without a local coin club.  And on the heels of a decade of phenemonal gains for bullion and coins. 

Nobody has any thoughts on the lush premium being charged for the 2009 UHRs ? 

On 4/30/2024 at 12:31 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

This all feels super gimmicky to me. What am I missing here?

I'm a bit lost, so I'll see what others post. 

But if it is about a bag for coins, sometimes they are worth nice $$$.  I thought it was about the article Roger wrote for a 1928 Double Eagle bag which he tied in to the story of the stolen 1928 Double Eagles (an entire bag of 500 Saints), though he never said it was THE bag that the stolen coins once resided in.

On 4/30/2024 at 11:18 AM, RWB said:

My examination was conducted with complete objectivity several years before the TPG ever saw the original bag.

Is this about that article/write-up you did for a 1928 Double Eagle bag sold on HA ?

I've done presentations before -- investing and astronomy -- so the speaking and slide presentation part I think I know how to integrate them.

I think I could do a decent presentation for beginners and intermediate collectors; not sure I'd have much to add for experts/advanced collectors but you can't please 'em all.

Like I said, just fleshing it out now.  Whether I submit it for a presentation down the line -- and when -- remains to be seen.  I'd be OK doing it at a regional conference or even a larger one like FUN.

On 4/29/2024 at 4:15 PM, zadok said:

...basis for question?...just curious or some specific reason(s)?...ill await ur reply n answer thru private msg....

Just wanted to know who has done it....if they enjoyed it...reception...who they asked/approached to do it.

Was re-staring a primer on Saints I thought I had started during Covid but apparently either lost or can't find where I saved it (thumb drive or what ?). 

So starting from scratch. 

Hence the inquiry. 

On 4/29/2024 at 12:21 PM, Bel_Izeard said:

I have been using the camera's autofocus, but it sounds like I need to manual focus the camera. Thanks for your help.

No photography expert by a longshot...I just use my Galaxy S9 smarptphone on default settings...angling the coins at a 30-degree angle.  Medium LED lights behind me and the shots look OK for the forums if not for HA or GC. 

Fascinating to see the prices for older coins before the numismatic run-up for small denomination coins as well as the gold/silver coins before 1973. 

Was wondering if anybody ever did a presentation at one of the Big National Shows -- or even the smaller regional ones, assuming they have them there, too.

Anybody here ever do one ?  

On 4/28/2024 at 6:33 PM, zadok said:

...a few years back the US govt did a survey of various topics including coin collecting, their summary estimated over 10 million, im not certain of the year but post 2000....

But depends on how you DEFINE it.  If they asked some basic questions which fleshed out ACTIVITY and FREQUENCY of buying/selling and/or reading....that's one thing.

You ask "Are you a coin collector ?" and anybody with the Special Quarter collection or a few stray coins is gonna say YES and the total will be 35 million Americans. 

Sometimes on these things....you have to make a leap of faith.  You know, like Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade !! 

Those Chapman coins were kept in the ORIGINAL envelopes -- and didn't mar the surfaces ? 

Also...the famly that owned them was wealthy enough NOT to have to sell them -- and yet they thought they were worth "only" $50,000 ?  Even in the age of the internet, they were off by a factor of 100 on the FMV ? 

JA said you see thise once in a Blue Moon....I think this shows that while there might be more out there (there certainly are)...there aren't DOZENS or HUNDREDS of sets like this or even approximating this set. 

A few raw coins here or there at best, IMO.

On 4/28/2024 at 7:44 AM, World Colonial said:

Back in 1998, my former boss told me he had a collection of post-1968 proof sets.  I didn't ask him if he had anything else.  All I remember is that he was disgusted when I informed him that he had been wasting his money on a SDB for decades.  He certainly wasn't "active", whether anyone wants to call him a collector or not.  Not sure how typical this example is of what you see.  I'm aware that given the supply of so many common coins, someone has to own it.

I think people like your boss were told the story of rising gold and silver prices....ditto some numismatics....thought that if they bought some of the Proof or Mint sets and just put them away for 20-30 years they'd go up in price. 

Not so. 

On 4/28/2024 at 8:14 AM, World Colonial said:

Previously, I mentioned a Coin Week Article by Jeff Garrett claiming what you do.  Harvey Stack posted a comment directly contradicting him.  I agree with Harvey Stack because I think he was in a much better position to know.  One admittedly anecdotal example is the Chapman collection of gold dollars profiled in Coin Week which actually did include numerous "top pops", up to MS-68.  Previously Unknown Chapman Collection of $1 Gold Now Revealed (coinweek.com)  Remember, post-1776 US metropolitan areas weren't an economic backwater, not like 1770's Lima, Peru.

Very interesting, thanks for the heads-up, WC. 

But I think this is the proverbial outlier, no ?  I mean...we're talking here someone who worked with famous numismatists who lived over a century ago....who saved GOLD coins....coins in PRISTINE condition....and worth Big $$$.

I don't think there are many entire collections like this just sitting in a vault, a home, or an attic. 

On 4/28/2024 at 8:14 AM, World Colonial said:

I wasn't specifically referring to condition census coins.  It's not as relevant as you consistently claim to very many collectors.  It's a number on a holder label to almost everyone because they aren't ever going to buy it, and it does not even have (hardly) any relevance to what they do buy.

Well, there's certainly value to lower-rated raw coins....but these won't really change the top pop census or the economics of a particular coin type or year/mintmark.  That was my point.

On 4/28/2024 at 8:14 AM, World Colonial said:

Look at the comparison I made in my last post.  Nine 1771 Peru 2R AU-58+ already graded with likely no duplicates. Given the preference among these collectors for TPG (virtually non-existent outside the US), potentially more out of a holder than in one.

For this particular foreign coin, yeah, I see what you are saying.  But for the coins an American kid or adult is likely to collect -- Saints, Morgans, Franklins, SLQ, Walkers, Lincoln Cents, etc. -- have we REALLY just scratched the surface of what is out there in the aggregate ?  And what about in the top condition ?

Even this Fairmont Hoard...if it's an amalgamation of various finds and put together as one big one for marketing purposes -- that would kind of prove my point.  If what you guys are saying is true -- and I admit, you COULD be right and you have more experience here than me -- but if right, you are saying lots of Americans have coins worth lots of $$$ and in volumes that can greatly expand the existing population census in the next decade or two.  So what's taking them so long to bring it to market or their heirs or their estates ?  I guess that's what we are all waiting on, right ?

I guess if it IS out there...we should see it in the next 10-20 years.  People like my relatives who are passing on are now in their 80's and 90's...if we don't see it when these people die, then I would think it does NOT exist in any size.  JMHO.