GoldFinger1969

On 3/23/2022 at 10:29 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

Are there specific die states for gold?  Did the mint let the die states get "terminal"?  While I imagine that there would be die deterioration... I feel like the mint cared more about the quality of the production of their large silver and gold coins... and really showed less respect for the small demonization copper.

It's not one of my areas of expertise with Saints, but I'll post back later tonight from the book. 

RWB's Saints Book has a chapter on virtually every Saint that focuses on die breaks, die varieties, mintmark differences, etc.

On 3/23/2022 at 12:42 PM, RWB said:

When I bought from Bowers & Ruddy, I could always tell who selected the coins - and almost everything Ruddy sent got returned; cleaned, rim damage, low-end, etc.

I would guess Bowers was the numismatist and Ruddy the business operations brains. 

On 5/4/2021 at 11:29 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Well, that explains everything.  Thanks for the clarification!

Does anybody know what happened to QA ?   

Backed up another 5 pages of this thread, from Pages 51-55. 

Just a public service reminder for those of you who have your favorite threads or articles.    

On 3/22/2022 at 1:48 PM, RWB said:

Nice bonus! Does he reveal any secrets?

I checked the hardcover and there was a letter saying that the Price Catalog was being sent to this individual because they bought the first 2 of the Jay Pittman Auction Catalogs.  I guess Akers did that one, too.

I am interested in Saints so outside of a few die varieties, I really concentrate on learning about the individual coins.

A Forum Member here created a thread -- or maybe it's within the RWB Saints Thread -- about a die variety for a Saint which escapes my memory right now.  And Rogers' book has sections on each Saint that cover die varieties and other mintmark and die variations.

On 3/22/2022 at 9:18 PM, RWB said:

When I had some graded years later, the Bowers "choice and gem" coins never came back less than 67-68 or better.

Wow....yeah, I think Bowers' name and reputation gave alot of credibility to some firms over the decades. 

On 3/22/2022 at 4:17 PM, RWB said:

Yep...and we've lost an important resource for research and law enforcement recovery of stolen coins with known auction backgrounds.

Didn't collectors by the 1950's realize that large COLOR photos -- including close-ups -- were important for catalogs, records to ID specific coins, etc. ?

If a coin had a tiny die crack or a blemish near a ray or a letter, wouldn't you want a close-up of it to prove it down the line ?

I believe jewelry catalogs featured closeups and that was just to show appearance, nobody could see flaws in a diamond from photos.

On 3/18/2022 at 4:41 PM, DWLange said:

Though the actor did have some coins, Abe Kosoff simply used his name with permission to promote the sale. 

Makes sense, because my readings of Menjou seem to indicate he was more interested in preserving his wealth than collecting coins.  He feared a dollar collapse and/or hyperinflation.  The spurt in inflation after WW II had to have made him more nervous.

I read that he had 250 of the 1907 High Reliefs, which is unreal.  Not sure how we verify something like that.  Could be his total number of Saints, I don't know.  Dealers who sold the remains of his estate in the early-1970's would probably know.

As opposed to Menjou, coins affiliated with actor Buddy Epsen seem to be more likely to have been his as he was apparently an avid and active coin collector.

Apparently, the DuPoint 1854-S is still missing decades later:

https://www.greysheet.com/news/story/new-discovery-of-an-1854-s-half-eagle-making-headlines-waves

On 3/22/2022 at 4:22 PM, DWLange said:

One of the more challenging tasks I've undertaken at NGC was proving that the 1854-S half eagle which surfaced a few years ago was not the stolen DuPont specimen. 

I just read about that somewhere, can't remember where.  I think there was a recent auction or I read about an auction in the past that the DuPont Family/heirs said they had no claim on a coin that was alleged to be the same one (not sure why, maybe they got the insurance proceeds) ?  Can't remember where I saw that....

On 3/22/2022 at 4:22 PM, DWLange said:

The auction catalog from its last public sale in 1962 was all but useless, but a slim prospectus for that sale which I'd purchased a few years earlier from the ANA's annual book sale in Colorado Springs provided sharper images that made our case. That 25-cent purchase paid for itself many times over...

Nice job, Dave !! 

Gotta find out where I read about that coin, the DuPoints, and a sale where they disclaimed any legal claim.  

On 3/22/2022 at 4:20 PM, RWB said:

 When the collection was sold the pattern likely went out the door to be lost.

Or somebody who worked there knew the value and took off with it.....

On 3/22/2022 at 1:22 PM, RWB said:

If the original receiving collections could be identified, we might have more examples of pristine coins made from fresh dies -- and then be able to better clarify the situation with [false] "Specimen" coins.

If these were sent to museums or librarys, presumably they'd be on display and we'd know about them ?

Only two I am aware of is CSL and Smithsonian.

On 3/22/2022 at 2:41 PM, RWB said:

I'll leave that to those who want to explore the subject. When working with the Newman papers a decade ago, it was low on the biographical research list.

That's why today I think there is so much more information available to all of us that as long as you do your due dilligence, it's difficult to be taken advantage of. 

At least to the same extent 30 or 40 or 50 years ago. 

On 3/22/2022 at 2:37 PM, RWB said:

It was once common for auction companies to take nice coin photos on B&W or color film, then print life-size illustrations in their catalogs. After the sale the negatives/slides were filed, forgotten and thrown out. All we have today are the low quality printed catalogs. Imagine the information lost (and the potential revenue).

Menjou had pics only for the more expensive coins and these are life-size and not that detailed (no blow-ups).

You think if we had larger pictures of the coins from decades ago we'd have better markings and identifiers on the individual coins to make sure we could track their lineage ?  Can't tell that I guess from the smaller pics (when taken) in these earlier catalogs. 

On 3/22/2022 at 2:37 PM, RWB said:

It was once common for auction companies to take nice coin photos on B&W or color film, then print life-size illustrations in their catalogs. After the sale the negatives/slides were filed, forgotten and thrown out. All we have today are the low quality printed catalogs. Imagine the information lost (and the potential revenue).

The color photos on the first few pages appear to all be life-size color.  Some of the Indian Heads are smaller than the Saints and Barbers.

With the commentaries, the more expensive coins are blown-up and sometime are 2-3x actual size.  At the end of the book the few "trophy" coins (like the 1927-D) are each given 3/4 page by themselves solo without any text.

On 3/22/2022 at 1:48 PM, RWB said:

Nice bonus! Does he reveal any secrets?

No, pretty generic....it's on miniature Post-It like stationary for David Akers, Inc....someone emailed him (not sure when !) with their collecting interests.  Akers says he doesn't have another sale scheduled at the present time (he had just done the Price Auction) but that he's sending him something that he did in 1998 (the Price Collection catalog) containing the series he collects (could be Saints, Indian Heads, or Barber Halfs).  Says to accept them with his compliments.  Regards, DA.

No hard sales approach at all.  

Light-years more info in this catalog compared to the 1950 Menjou, and I'll even bet it beats the top coin commentaries for Eliasberg.  Still not thrilled with the photos/pics, they look a combination of photo and artwork, I like real pictures with light shining off them but that's just me.  Small color photos at beginning, larger B&W with the commentaries.

Roger, without getting into specific individuals....what were the most egregious unethical practices you saw among dealers from the NNP with regards to coin collecting in the 1940's - 1970's ?

Lying about the value of a coin to a novice ?  Someone bringing in a mint marked coin and not seeing the mint mark and selling it as a common Philly ?  Not disclosing that you have a wealthy buyer for a particular coin that you can turn around and flip ?

FYI....I believe that CSL is one of the few non-SI sources of private museums/collections that have sold their coins over time to raise $$$.

Another Breen Exaggeration:  I post this not to bash the guy because I realize for many years (decades ?) his was the only source on lots of coins.  But it does appear at times he cut corners.  I'm not sure where Breen's comments were made (at a conference ? In a book ?  In an article ?) so context matters. 

David Akers, on the 1930-S Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle: "...Very few ever went to European banks either and, despite Walter Breen's comments to the contrary, I have never heard of any specific, verifiable hoard or even small groups of 1930-S double eagles that were found in French or Swiss banks, the main source for most of the hoard dates of double eagles that were located in Europe beginning in the early 1950s." 

 

On 3/22/2022 at 12:46 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

Philly is not doing tours yet.  I have checked often.

Just tell them you're a friend of Israel Switt's and you're there to pick up some Double Eagles. 

There wasn't much more to do in those days, especially if admittance to the Mint was free.

No movies....no sports....bars off-limits....no plays that were affordable....no video arcades for kids. 

Thaine B. Price Catalog:  Wow, I got a special surprise when I opened up the softcover auction booklet (I already had the hardcover). 

I found a personal note from David Akers on his own stationary addressed to the collector whom he sent the softcover version to. 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:54 PM, RWB said:

Mitchelson donated his entire collection to the Connecticut State Library

I misread the post....I thought Mitchelson was in charge of the CSL, he was a private collector.   I forgot it was Godard who ran CSL and spoke/wrote to Comparette.

Thanks ! 

On 3/21/2022 at 2:12 PM, Woods020 said:

I can buy them from BU down to VF. Or cull if you want. These aren’t original rolls which I don’t believe exist. They just buy a huge volume of silver dollars and gold. They will sell it to dealers individually or in rolls. But it’s just the quantity and in a tube, again not an original back roll. My point was that large quantities are readily available. 

The number of collectors -- the demand -- is often as important as the supply (pop census).