GoldFinger1969

On 10/5/2022 at 9:04 PM, VKurtB said:

May I ask why you’d be looking for it? It is the ultimate in controversy. Three professional graders, at least, agreed on grade X. Then ONE GUY, ONE FALLIBLE HUMAN BEING says, “Nope, should be at least X+1.”  If you want to believe the one guy, that’s your prerogative and maybe to need to crack it out and send it in again raw. But I’m sorry. I would rather believe the three or more guys than ANY one guy; I don’t care WHO IT IS. Hence I will never submit ANY COIN WHATSOEVER to CAC. As usual, I have REASONS for my refusal to follow the mob, even when we call that mob “the market”.

I'm talking about a 65 CAC or any other grade costing more than a 1-grade higher coin (in this case, 66).  I haven't seen it and I scour the auctions weekly.  Not even for "+" grades.

On 10/5/2022 at 9:34 PM, zadok said:

...it happens all the time, sometimes as much as a 200% increase...usually on very early encapsulations...ive seen several id pay that premium in the areas that i aggressively collect....

I see big boosts for Saints from 66 to 67 for some of the commons....but even a 66+CAC isn't going to come close to a 67, at least not for the ones I am looking at.

On 10/5/2022 at 7:20 PM, VKurtB said:

When a gold beaned 65 is bringing more than a 66, logic has left the building. 

I haven't seen that and I've been on the lookout for it, at least with DEs.

On 10/5/2022 at 6:27 PM, zadok said:

...thats still happening...my point was that there was/is a bias on crossovers at the tpgs....

Understood....I think the examples that the OP had was it was a PCGS holder and he sent it to them a few times.  Never got upgraded...then a few years later he saw it in a much higher-graded holder and flipped out.

Surprised that thread lasted as long as it did but I believe lots of people got removed for posting stuff there.

On 10/5/2022 at 2:43 PM, EarlyUS.com said:

This thread is particularly relevant to me, since I've recently pulled out a sizable number of world coins that I've purchased over the last ten years (really, more like "hoarded").  For some of the better pieces, I am astonished at how much they have increased in value based on auction records. 

Foreign coins have been hot the last 3-5 years....feel free to tell us how some of the purchases turned out. 

On 10/5/2022 at 5:59 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

They do, at least NGC does. The only exception I've seen is the "Grand Snake". That holder has to be huge!

Thanks Mike...yeah, that holder must be pretty new...I know NGC uses label wrap-arounds, I think I have one....I bet that same holder is used for 10 ounce bullion coins which I see are now getting slabbed.

On 10/5/2022 at 1:05 AM, zadok said:

...has nothing to do with crossovers...

OK, re-submissions...not sure if they cracked it out first or whatever.  I've never done it but the bottom line was you had rare pop coins going up 1 1/2 grades with CAC and the value increasing 20-fold.

This thing depends on probabilities.  My aunt and uncle had to stay at a hotel because they evacuated their Florida home due to Hurricane Ian.  Apparently, all the employees and workers at the hotel were from Caribbean countries lagging on vaccination and with Covid problems still.

They BOTH got Covid a few days ago.

On 10/4/2022 at 7:22 PM, Simple Collector said:

No. I purchased one for the first time in the GSA holder and based on pictures, they look quite bigger thasn an NGC holder.

Wait...the GSA holder is the plastic that mentions the Carson City pedigree....I thought that NGC and PCGS just put a ribbon around it and left it in the original plastic  ?

On 10/4/2022 at 4:25 PM, VKurtB said:

It’s a case of taking on the potential liability of the grading guarantee. It’s one reason I send in non-cross-eligible (ANACS and ICG) with the slab’s inner holder still around the coin. It puts them on notice that they’re NOT the first ones to grade this coin. 

If it was in an ANACS or ICG holder, of course it's already been graded -- am I missing something  ?  Or maybe I'm confused. 

You send in non-cross eligble -- why are you sending it in if it's not eligible for crossing ?  Not sure what the importance of the inner holder is....who is "on notice" ?  PCGS or NGC ?  ANACs or ICG ?

Sorry, either the post is confusing or I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

On 10/4/2022 at 4:25 PM, VKurtB said:

But graders always do know that a crossover coin is one, and then tend to view them with a highly critical jaundiced eye. It’s a case of taking on the potential liability of the grading guarantee. It’s one reason I send in non-cross-eligible (ANACS and ICG) with the slab’s inner holder still around the coin. It puts them on notice that they’re NOT the first ones to grade this coin. 

Did you ever read the Franklin Gradeflation thread over ATS ?  

Fascinating....

On 10/4/2022 at 1:25 PM, Simple Collector said:

Thanks!

Any reason you needed that information ?  Mailing some or trying to put them in a holder ?

On 10/4/2022 at 10:33 AM, zadok said:

...in theory it should but no guarantee due to the biases between the two major tpgs against each other, they may say they grade each coin on its own merits but the evidence is to the contrary....

I actually think they DO grade on the merits.  The problem is the graders are people.  They are fallible.  They have good days and bad days.  There are times in the day when their eyes are super-sharp and other times of the day they are a bit tired.

They miss things.  Sometimes when they catch them, they disagree on them.  Are bag marks on the devices worse or better than in the fields ?

The gross misses -- which usually have threads here or ATS -- are thankfully few and far between.  That's not to say that gradeflation is not a problem...but if you DO think gradeflation is a problem, then CAC is your Best Friend. 

On 10/4/2022 at 9:25 AM, bsshog40 said:

I don't follow or ever submitted to CAC. I have one coin that has a green bean cause I bought it that way. Like them or not, they seem to have been accepted in the hobby by most collectors. To your question, hopefully the tpg got your grade right as a bean doesn't always represent grade as it could also be for eye appeal. 

I have 1 or 2 CACs but they are Morgans.....don't have any Saints but hope to once I have replenished my bank account. 

On 10/3/2022 at 4:10 PM, RWB said:

See full story on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63122180

No Saints ?  

On 10/1/2022 at 9:08 PM, VKurtB said:

@RWB should know and IS CORRECT. Maintaining almost any kind of price guide is a great way to go broke

A price guide is not an agreement to buy/sell coins at stated prices....it's not a live Bid-Ask spread.

It's just data points.  He has a great price matrix for every Saint-Gauden for 2 or 3 grade levels in his book. 

On 3/5/2022 at 12:39 PM, bernard55 said:

Absolutely.  I was just curious if NGCs prices on their website had any integrity-it seems they don’t.  Its good for people to know that…

No, I don't think it's a question of integrity with NGC or PCGS.  The problem is just bad, wrong, or lagged data.

What is better is to use the price trend charts over a longer period of time as a good indicator of where prices have gone over the last 6-12 months and even going back years.  THERE I find them pretty accurate for a quick ballpark guestimate of where prices have been.

Again...it's more time consuming....but the best is to match up auction and actual sales prices at the points in time of interest to you.  But this will take a few minutes if not longer and most of us want to get the price in seconds. 

RWB's DOUBLE EAGLES book has a price matrix for each Saint in the book from 1976-2015 which no doubt required lots of work.

On 9/30/2022 at 2:18 PM, RWB said:

All DE to 1907. The quantity will always decline over time due to attrition.

Got it....what about DE after 1907 ?  A little higher ?

On 9/25/2022 at 4:28 PM, RWB said:

For 1877 to 1907 Liberty DE.  Prior to 1877 there are too many wrecked ships to get meaningful numbers.

Just want to make sure I understand....for Liberty's and/or Saints (or maybe all coins ?)....you are saying 0.46% of total mintage is a good approximation for the total of NON-TPG GRADED coins out there ?

Presumably, that number has to be slightly adjusted DOWN over time, right, to account for stragglers sent in for grading over time, right ?  As more of the non-certified stash comes out for grading, the number will adjust downward ?

On 9/29/2022 at 6:05 PM, ShinyObjects said:

That's a beauty!

The asking prices and even completed sales prices have gone nuts the last 2 years. 

On 9/29/2022 at 2:26 AM, Liam ll said:

I appreciate the response and have seen what you've mentioned also. Fortunately the majority of the Saints and Morgans I have have been graded and slabbed by NGC or PCGS. I'm currently working from the bottom up in understanding this collection I'm dealing with. My intent is to liquidate the less important items in order to have some of the ungraded gold authenticated and graded. I am fairly confident that at least the majority of it will fair well. I only have one Saint to be graded, and a Liberty $20. The rest are a mix of fives. tens, maple leafs and such. There should be paperwork with it all, the initial moving has some of it out of order. The collection is pretty eclectic, a lot of commemoratives, proofs etc. to sort through. Tonight was a journey through over a thousand Eisenhower's. There were only around 30 Saints, and not quite twice that in Morgans and a few Peace. Sure is easier to scan the bar codes and have the info at hand. Enough rambling, back to Bampaw's hoard...

Looks like a WONDERFUL collection, congratulations ! 

Can I ask how you came to acquire it ?

On 9/27/2022 at 8:47 PM, Liam ll said:

I agree with your descriptive. I personally found that the majority of my initial questions had already been answered at some point, or a reference to another source given to seek the answers I thought I may have needed.

We are a patient group.  I don't think we'd have a problem if a newbie asked some questions on Saints or Morgans for which there were threads....it's easy to miss things or not find them.

But most/many of the newbies are here to tell us about some coin they found that they are sure is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars and 99.99% of them are not.