Conder101

That was one of the reasons why it was originally authorized dealers only, the dealers could weed out the coins that shouldn't be submitted  thereby saving the collectors some money, and the graders from wasting time on them.  But no the collectors HAD to be able to do their own submissions much to the great profit for the TPG's.
Part of the problems today is that there is so much emphasis on the fact that coins need to be graded to have any value that newbies seem to think it is something that HAS to be done with every coin.

And then they don't understand when those of us FROM the previous century get so annoyed with them.
Maybe they hope they can get one of those large dates to go woke and "identify" as a small date.

That was one of the reasons why it was originally authorized dealers only, the dealers could weed out the coins that shouldn't be submitted  thereby saving the collectors some money, and the graders from wasting time on them.  But no the collectors HAD to be able to do their own submissions much to the great profit for the TPG's.
Part of the problems today is that there is so much emphasis on the fact that coins need to be graded to have any value that newbies seem to think it is something that HAS to be done with every coin.

While some Conder tokens may have traveled over here it would just be a small number and not any organized shipment of tokens  (Closest connection would be the Talbot Alum & Lee tokens of Philadelphia which were produced in England by the same firms that were producing Conder tokens and the those dies can be found muled with dies used for other Conder tokens.  The Conder tokens didn't begin until 1787 and most of them were struck in the 1793 - 1797 period by which time out mint was already in operation.  There were some pieces that were struck in an attempt to secure a coinage contract to produce  our coinage.  If you look at the Washington pieces in the redbook many of those are actually Conder tokens and the reverse dies were muled with other Conder token dies as well.  Other Conder tokens listed in the Redbook include the Kentucky Cent, the Theatre at New York token (The reverse is a Conder token die) and the Franklin Press token.
As to the GTT (Genuine Trade Tokens ) which is what I mainly collect, I only collect those from the English counties and I don't collect all the edge varieties just the obv/rev combinations.  There are 658 different GTT tokens of which I have 558 of them.
Overall, including edge varieties, there are very close to 5,000 Conder token varieties.  The most complete collection I knew of was Robinson S Brown's collection.  He has something like 4,800 of them.  I know of a couple other collections in the 3,000 piece range.
Even after all this time there are still new discoveries that can be made, I have discovered four new obv/rev die pairings and at least two known varieties with new edge varieites.
There are many ways you can collect the tokens.  My first goal as just one token from each of the 39 English counties.  About 35 of them are pretty easy, three of them are tough, one you are almost certainly not going to get.  Leicestershire,  There are only 18 tokens from that county.  Not 18 varieties, 18 tokens total from two different varieties.  You could pick a county and try to get a token from each of the cities that issued a token.  There are many individual "series that a popularly collected such as the tokens for Pidcock Exhibition.  Pidcock had a menagerie and produced  tokens with many of the animals on them and there are various pairing obv/rev of these animals and the were issued as both half pence and farthings. There are probably better than 30 differnt Pidcock tokens.  Another series I collect are what are called Skidmore's Churches and Gates. Skidmore was a prolific issuer of tokens for various things adn one of them was a series of tokens that pictured every Chuch within, and every Gate through the old Walled City of London (The Old city of London was the original walled city located within todays London.  It covers one square mile..)  There are 128 churches and gates in the series, I have over 80 of them.  They are very nice and with issued in proof or prooflike condition.  Something else I collect are the Lady Godivia tokens from the city of Coventry in Warwickshire.  Everyone knows the story of Lady Godiva, will in 1792 the city produced alarge numbers of tokens with the city arms on one side and Lady Godiva on the other.  They were very popular and were widely used.  This attracted the attention of counterfeiters and they produced their own tokens in 1793.  The problem was the 1792 issue was enough for the city and they didn't make any 1793 tokens.  So all 1792 tokens are genuine, and all 1793 tokens are contemporary counterfeits.  I have all of the 1792 vareites and I lack one 1793 variety.  (The standard reference Dalton & Hamer catalogs both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens.)  There are many other ways or series you can collect in the Conders.
In circulated condition the Conders as still relatively cheap, but not like they were when I started seriously collecting them back in 1997.  Back then uncirculated  common tokens could be had for $20 apiece.  Today I doubt you could get an uncirculated for under $200 to $250 dollars. (a bit pricy, but if they were Unc large cent from the same era you would be looking in mid five figures.)  But circulated pieces can still be had for $30 to $50 dollars.  I wish I had bought more back then, or had started buying Conders when I first started collecting.  Back them Unc's were $2 each and mint red coins were $3
 
 

Yes but not a very good test because the coin weight will have a +/- tolerance range, and most likely the slab weight will also have an unknown +/- tolerance weight range.

Yes but not a very good test because the coin weight will have a +/- tolerance range, and most likely the slab weight will also have an unknown +/- tolerance weight range.

If you are a weirdo then there are an awful lot of you out there.  I've know a lot of people that keep every one they get.
 
Not surprising as they would have used around 1,200 rev dies.

When you get them slabbed by any of the top four grading services we will happily concede we were wrong.  But I feel very safe in saying we will NEVER have to do so.
I have to wonder if he has the same kind of success picking stocks.
Saw the better date pictures... 100% large date.

And then they don't understand when those of us FROM the previous century get so annoyed with them.
Maybe they hope they can get one of those large dates to go woke and "identify" as a small date.

The only time they were sealed by the mint was if you purchased a single set they would sometimes seal it, address it, and mail it to you directly.  I have seen a few sets like that.  But yes the VAST majority of the sets were never sealed by the Mint.

That was one of the reasons why it was originally authorized dealers only, the dealers could weed out the coins that shouldn't be submitted  thereby saving the collectors some money, and the graders from wasting time on them.  But no the collectors HAD to be able to do their own submissions much to the great profit for the TPG's.
Part of the problems today is that there is so much emphasis on the fact that coins need to be graded to have any value that newbies seem to think it is something that HAS to be done with every coin.

While some Conder tokens may have traveled over here it would just be a small number and not any organized shipment of tokens  (Closest connection would be the Talbot Alum & Lee tokens of Philadelphia which were produced in England by the same firms that were producing Conder tokens and the those dies can be found muled with dies used for other Conder tokens.  The Conder tokens didn't begin until 1787 and most of them were struck in the 1793 - 1797 period by which time out mint was already in operation.  There were some pieces that were struck in an attempt to secure a coinage contract to produce  our coinage.  If you look at the Washington pieces in the redbook many of those are actually Conder tokens and the reverse dies were muled with other Conder token dies as well.  Other Conder tokens listed in the Redbook include the Kentucky Cent, the Theatre at New York token (The reverse is a Conder token die) and the Franklin Press token.
As to the GTT (Genuine Trade Tokens ) which is what I mainly collect, I only collect those from the English counties and I don't collect all the edge varieties just the obv/rev combinations.  There are 658 different GTT tokens of which I have 558 of them.
Overall, including edge varieties, there are very close to 5,000 Conder token varieties.  The most complete collection I knew of was Robinson S Brown's collection.  He has something like 4,800 of them.  I know of a couple other collections in the 3,000 piece range.
Even after all this time there are still new discoveries that can be made, I have discovered four new obv/rev die pairings and at least two known varieties with new edge varieites.
There are many ways you can collect the tokens.  My first goal as just one token from each of the 39 English counties.  About 35 of them are pretty easy, three of them are tough, one you are almost certainly not going to get.  Leicestershire,  There are only 18 tokens from that county.  Not 18 varieties, 18 tokens total from two different varieties.  You could pick a county and try to get a token from each of the cities that issued a token.  There are many individual "series that a popularly collected such as the tokens for Pidcock Exhibition.  Pidcock had a menagerie and produced  tokens with many of the animals on them and there are various pairing obv/rev of these animals and the were issued as both half pence and farthings. There are probably better than 30 differnt Pidcock tokens.  Another series I collect are what are called Skidmore's Churches and Gates. Skidmore was a prolific issuer of tokens for various things adn one of them was a series of tokens that pictured every Chuch within, and every Gate through the old Walled City of London (The Old city of London was the original walled city located within todays London.  It covers one square mile..)  There are 128 churches and gates in the series, I have over 80 of them.  They are very nice and with issued in proof or prooflike condition.  Something else I collect are the Lady Godivia tokens from the city of Coventry in Warwickshire.  Everyone knows the story of Lady Godiva, will in 1792 the city produced alarge numbers of tokens with the city arms on one side and Lady Godiva on the other.  They were very popular and were widely used.  This attracted the attention of counterfeiters and they produced their own tokens in 1793.  The problem was the 1792 issue was enough for the city and they didn't make any 1793 tokens.  So all 1792 tokens are genuine, and all 1793 tokens are contemporary counterfeits.  I have all of the 1792 vareites and I lack one 1793 variety.  (The standard reference Dalton & Hamer catalogs both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens.)  There are many other ways or series you can collect in the Conders.
In circulated condition the Conders as still relatively cheap, but not like they were when I started seriously collecting them back in 1997.  Back then uncirculated  common tokens could be had for $20 apiece.  Today I doubt you could get an uncirculated for under $200 to $250 dollars. (a bit pricy, but if they were Unc large cent from the same era you would be looking in mid five figures.)  But circulated pieces can still be had for $30 to $50 dollars.  I wish I had bought more back then, or had started buying Conders when I first started collecting.  Back them Unc's were $2 each and mint red coins were $3
 
 

And then they don't understand when those of us FROM the previous century get so annoyed with them.
Maybe they hope they can get one of those large dates to go woke and "identify" as a small date.

While some Conder tokens may have traveled over here it would just be a small number and not any organized shipment of tokens  (Closest connection would be the Talbot Alum & Lee tokens of Philadelphia which were produced in England by the same firms that were producing Conder tokens and the those dies can be found muled with dies used for other Conder tokens.  The Conder tokens didn't begin until 1787 and most of them were struck in the 1793 - 1797 period by which time out mint was already in operation.  There were some pieces that were struck in an attempt to secure a coinage contract to produce  our coinage.  If you look at the Washington pieces in the redbook many of those are actually Conder tokens and the reverse dies were muled with other Conder token dies as well.  Other Conder tokens listed in the Redbook include the Kentucky Cent, the Theatre at New York token (The reverse is a Conder token die) and the Franklin Press token.
As to the GTT (Genuine Trade Tokens ) which is what I mainly collect, I only collect those from the English counties and I don't collect all the edge varieties just the obv/rev combinations.  There are 658 different GTT tokens of which I have 558 of them.
Overall, including edge varieties, there are very close to 5,000 Conder token varieties.  The most complete collection I knew of was Robinson S Brown's collection.  He has something like 4,800 of them.  I know of a couple other collections in the 3,000 piece range.
Even after all this time there are still new discoveries that can be made, I have discovered four new obv/rev die pairings and at least two known varieties with new edge varieites.
There are many ways you can collect the tokens.  My first goal as just one token from each of the 39 English counties.  About 35 of them are pretty easy, three of them are tough, one you are almost certainly not going to get.  Leicestershire,  There are only 18 tokens from that county.  Not 18 varieties, 18 tokens total from two different varieties.  You could pick a county and try to get a token from each of the cities that issued a token.  There are many individual "series that a popularly collected such as the tokens for Pidcock Exhibition.  Pidcock had a menagerie and produced  tokens with many of the animals on them and there are various pairing obv/rev of these animals and the were issued as both half pence and farthings. There are probably better than 30 differnt Pidcock tokens.  Another series I collect are what are called Skidmore's Churches and Gates. Skidmore was a prolific issuer of tokens for various things adn one of them was a series of tokens that pictured every Chuch within, and every Gate through the old Walled City of London (The Old city of London was the original walled city located within todays London.  It covers one square mile..)  There are 128 churches and gates in the series, I have over 80 of them.  They are very nice and with issued in proof or prooflike condition.  Something else I collect are the Lady Godivia tokens from the city of Coventry in Warwickshire.  Everyone knows the story of Lady Godiva, will in 1792 the city produced alarge numbers of tokens with the city arms on one side and Lady Godiva on the other.  They were very popular and were widely used.  This attracted the attention of counterfeiters and they produced their own tokens in 1793.  The problem was the 1792 issue was enough for the city and they didn't make any 1793 tokens.  So all 1792 tokens are genuine, and all 1793 tokens are contemporary counterfeits.  I have all of the 1792 vareites and I lack one 1793 variety.  (The standard reference Dalton & Hamer catalogs both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens.)  There are many other ways or series you can collect in the Conders.
In circulated condition the Conders as still relatively cheap, but not like they were when I started seriously collecting them back in 1997.  Back then uncirculated  common tokens could be had for $20 apiece.  Today I doubt you could get an uncirculated for under $200 to $250 dollars. (a bit pricy, but if they were Unc large cent from the same era you would be looking in mid five figures.)  But circulated pieces can still be had for $30 to $50 dollars.  I wish I had bought more back then, or had started buying Conders when I first started collecting.  Back them Unc's were $2 each and mint red coins were $3
 
 

Describing them as "Proofs"  is a relatively recent thing.  In older sales (probably 1960's or earlier) they were not called proofs.  The same was true with the 1913 V Nickels.  They all used to be considered business strike quality as well, though sometimes called proof like.
 
Flynn accounts for most of them as being destroyed in various assayings.  It's been awhile since I've reead his book so I can't be more precise.

Anything after 1949 when the CCP took over the country.

While some Conder tokens may have traveled over here it would just be a small number and not any organized shipment of tokens  (Closest connection would be the Talbot Alum & Lee tokens of Philadelphia which were produced in England by the same firms that were producing Conder tokens and the those dies can be found muled with dies used for other Conder tokens.  The Conder tokens didn't begin until 1787 and most of them were struck in the 1793 - 1797 period by which time out mint was already in operation.  There were some pieces that were struck in an attempt to secure a coinage contract to produce  our coinage.  If you look at the Washington pieces in the redbook many of those are actually Conder tokens and the reverse dies were muled with other Conder token dies as well.  Other Conder tokens listed in the Redbook include the Kentucky Cent, the Theatre at New York token (The reverse is a Conder token die) and the Franklin Press token.
As to the GTT (Genuine Trade Tokens ) which is what I mainly collect, I only collect those from the English counties and I don't collect all the edge varieties just the obv/rev combinations.  There are 658 different GTT tokens of which I have 558 of them.
Overall, including edge varieties, there are very close to 5,000 Conder token varieties.  The most complete collection I knew of was Robinson S Brown's collection.  He has something like 4,800 of them.  I know of a couple other collections in the 3,000 piece range.
Even after all this time there are still new discoveries that can be made, I have discovered four new obv/rev die pairings and at least two known varieties with new edge varieites.
There are many ways you can collect the tokens.  My first goal as just one token from each of the 39 English counties.  About 35 of them are pretty easy, three of them are tough, one you are almost certainly not going to get.  Leicestershire,  There are only 18 tokens from that county.  Not 18 varieties, 18 tokens total from two different varieties.  You could pick a county and try to get a token from each of the cities that issued a token.  There are many individual "series that a popularly collected such as the tokens for Pidcock Exhibition.  Pidcock had a menagerie and produced  tokens with many of the animals on them and there are various pairing obv/rev of these animals and the were issued as both half pence and farthings. There are probably better than 30 differnt Pidcock tokens.  Another series I collect are what are called Skidmore's Churches and Gates. Skidmore was a prolific issuer of tokens for various things adn one of them was a series of tokens that pictured every Chuch within, and every Gate through the old Walled City of London (The Old city of London was the original walled city located within todays London.  It covers one square mile..)  There are 128 churches and gates in the series, I have over 80 of them.  They are very nice and with issued in proof or prooflike condition.  Something else I collect are the Lady Godivia tokens from the city of Coventry in Warwickshire.  Everyone knows the story of Lady Godiva, will in 1792 the city produced alarge numbers of tokens with the city arms on one side and Lady Godiva on the other.  They were very popular and were widely used.  This attracted the attention of counterfeiters and they produced their own tokens in 1793.  The problem was the 1792 issue was enough for the city and they didn't make any 1793 tokens.  So all 1792 tokens are genuine, and all 1793 tokens are contemporary counterfeits.  I have all of the 1792 vareites and I lack one 1793 variety.  (The standard reference Dalton & Hamer catalogs both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens.)  There are many other ways or series you can collect in the Conders.
In circulated condition the Conders as still relatively cheap, but not like they were when I started seriously collecting them back in 1997.  Back then uncirculated  common tokens could be had for $20 apiece.  Today I doubt you could get an uncirculated for under $200 to $250 dollars. (a bit pricy, but if they were Unc large cent from the same era you would be looking in mid five figures.)  But circulated pieces can still be had for $30 to $50 dollars.  I wish I had bought more back then, or had started buying Conders when I first started collecting.  Back them Unc's were $2 each and mint red coins were $3
 
 

While some Conder tokens may have traveled over here it would just be a small number and not any organized shipment of tokens  (Closest connection would be the Talbot Alum & Lee tokens of Philadelphia which were produced in England by the same firms that were producing Conder tokens and the those dies can be found muled with dies used for other Conder tokens.  The Conder tokens didn't begin until 1787 and most of them were struck in the 1793 - 1797 period by which time out mint was already in operation.  There were some pieces that were struck in an attempt to secure a coinage contract to produce  our coinage.  If you look at the Washington pieces in the redbook many of those are actually Conder tokens and the reverse dies were muled with other Conder token dies as well.  Other Conder tokens listed in the Redbook include the Kentucky Cent, the Theatre at New York token (The reverse is a Conder token die) and the Franklin Press token.
As to the GTT (Genuine Trade Tokens ) which is what I mainly collect, I only collect those from the English counties and I don't collect all the edge varieties just the obv/rev combinations.  There are 658 different GTT tokens of which I have 558 of them.
Overall, including edge varieties, there are very close to 5,000 Conder token varieties.  The most complete collection I knew of was Robinson S Brown's collection.  He has something like 4,800 of them.  I know of a couple other collections in the 3,000 piece range.
Even after all this time there are still new discoveries that can be made, I have discovered four new obv/rev die pairings and at least two known varieties with new edge varieites.
There are many ways you can collect the tokens.  My first goal as just one token from each of the 39 English counties.  About 35 of them are pretty easy, three of them are tough, one you are almost certainly not going to get.  Leicestershire,  There are only 18 tokens from that county.  Not 18 varieties, 18 tokens total from two different varieties.  You could pick a county and try to get a token from each of the cities that issued a token.  There are many individual "series that a popularly collected such as the tokens for Pidcock Exhibition.  Pidcock had a menagerie and produced  tokens with many of the animals on them and there are various pairing obv/rev of these animals and the were issued as both half pence and farthings. There are probably better than 30 differnt Pidcock tokens.  Another series I collect are what are called Skidmore's Churches and Gates. Skidmore was a prolific issuer of tokens for various things adn one of them was a series of tokens that pictured every Chuch within, and every Gate through the old Walled City of London (The Old city of London was the original walled city located within todays London.  It covers one square mile..)  There are 128 churches and gates in the series, I have over 80 of them.  They are very nice and with issued in proof or prooflike condition.  Something else I collect are the Lady Godivia tokens from the city of Coventry in Warwickshire.  Everyone knows the story of Lady Godiva, will in 1792 the city produced alarge numbers of tokens with the city arms on one side and Lady Godiva on the other.  They were very popular and were widely used.  This attracted the attention of counterfeiters and they produced their own tokens in 1793.  The problem was the 1792 issue was enough for the city and they didn't make any 1793 tokens.  So all 1792 tokens are genuine, and all 1793 tokens are contemporary counterfeits.  I have all of the 1792 vareites and I lack one 1793 variety.  (The standard reference Dalton & Hamer catalogs both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens.)  There are many other ways or series you can collect in the Conders.
In circulated condition the Conders as still relatively cheap, but not like they were when I started seriously collecting them back in 1997.  Back then uncirculated  common tokens could be had for $20 apiece.  Today I doubt you could get an uncirculated for under $200 to $250 dollars. (a bit pricy, but if they were Unc large cent from the same era you would be looking in mid five figures.)  But circulated pieces can still be had for $30 to $50 dollars.  I wish I had bought more back then, or had started buying Conders when I first started collecting.  Back them Unc's were $2 each and mint red coins were $3
 
 

There are at least a couple of 2007 Sac dollars with the president dollar edge but they would not have stars on the edge.  In 2007 and 2008 the President dollar edge was Date Mint E PLURIBUS UNUM IN GOD WE TRUST.  In 2009 the motto IGWT was moved to the obv of the coin and was replaced with 13 stars.  The NA dollar series that began in 2009 also had the 13 star edge. lettering.

Tooling MARKS are the result of repairs or work done to the die. TOOLING, is another term for reworking, strengthening, or reengraving details on the already struck COIN.

Yes it does show the results of a clashed die.  The clashing make have been what caused the die to break, or the die may have already been broken when the clash occurred.  Impossible to say which unless you were able to accumulate a lot of coins from the same die pair and then arrange them by die stage.

Blame PCGS for the 1988 WAM confusion.  When they certify a 1988 with the reverse hub of 89 (I forget the verity number) for some reason they put WAM on the label.  This gets people thinking that the "Wide AM" is what makes it valuable and they go looking for 1988 cents with the Wide AM which of course they find since EVERY 1988 cent has a Wide AM.

They will, we have all made mistakes and had to take losses occasionally.  And it will happen to others again in the future.
.
Your tuition  to the school of hard knocks.

Yes it does show the results of a clashed die.  The clashing make have been what caused the die to break, or the die may have already been broken when the clash occurred.  Impossible to say which unless you were able to accumulate a lot of coins from the same die pair and then arrange them by die stage.

Yes the holders will have a tolerance range.  The question is what IS that range?  No one knows.  Then when you combine the tolerance ranges on both I seriously doubt you would be able to tell anything about authenticity of a coin based on weighing the coin in the holder unless the weight of the coin is SERIOUSLY off.