eBay antics 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

It's been a few years since I ordered anything from eBay but I receive legal notices from them from time to time which I pay no attention to.  I know whatever they decide to do, they do not have my best interests at heart.

However, disregarding the multitudinous complaints about the site as registered by credible members intermittently here, I threw all caution to the wind, took a deep breath, and plunged into the world of international commerce, buying sight-seen (which a member here stated is the case if there is a return policy in place). 

I was actually viewing tokens generally and before long ventured into Etsy -- and the wonderful world of counterfeits which only served to validate my opinion that no one -- neither young or old, newbie or numismatist ought to venture in if unaccompanied by an experienced adult.

Case in point: "copies" or "tributes," by whatever name known. In short order, I found something that caught my eye and, "prompted" to Buy Now or give it your best shot (actually, OBO, Or Best Offer, I did.)  We're talking minor purchase here, $19.99, exclusive of sales tax and shipping.  It was at that point I was rudely slapped in the face. Apparently, despite the fact you, the prospective buyer, are clearly given five offers to make, some algorithm guy in Nebraska (presumably acting at his employer's behest) decided my offer was not high enough to his liking. He suggested a much higher figure [that "the seller would be more inclined to accept." I looked to see where the seller of the fabulous fake was situated and presumably being shipping from, and was delighted to see it was Communist China. Guandong, to be exact. As is my nature, I balked. I structured my bidding sequence mentally to culminate in the suggested "sale" figure.  (The truth is, I envisioned a factory somewhere teeming with underpaid workers and figured the actual retail price of this semi-artistic work was pennies on the dollar, and acted accordingly). Not surprisingly, my offer was accepted. What was more surprising was discovering shipping was free and the response I received, in substance, Offer ACCEPTED; Pay Up! was astonishingly quick.  I was informed to expect the item within a range of time of up to three weeks. [No problem. I was in no rush.] They even provided a tracking number, and a "sales tax" of a dollar and change, which suggested to me this was a certifiably fugazy covert domestic operation with delivery to be effected by rickshaw.

Now, being a realist, I realize in posting this here, now, at least four charter members of NGC's resident Anti-Counterfeiting League have black-balled me (one of whom has his vomiting emoji at the ready to express his feeling as to my choice: giving aid and comfort to the enemy).

Do I expect to receive the purchase? Yes. And if I don't? I will cross that bridge when I come to it. My sole purpose in posting this is best expressed by a  man by the name of Frederick Charles Wood who, prior to being strapped into the electric chair in one of the last executions conducted by the state of New York, made a last statement to those assembled to witness his execution at Sing Sing in 1963: "Ladies and Gentlemen, you are about to witness a scientific experiment: the effect of electricity... on Wood," which he reportedly ended with a maniacal laugh before being strapped in.

I will post the results of my eBay "experiment," when the results, success of failure, come in.

One.more thing before I go... in another bid on yet another site, I discovered bidding procedures have since changed. For simplicity's sake, assume you are interested in an item and, factoring time left and the bid already attained, you tap the button to view bidding history and learn that while you were led to believe 7 bids had already been made, resulting in a paltry sum, say $35., you would assume $40. was in the realm of likely progression. WRONG! I was informed someone had already bid $55. and my bid would have to exceed that by an unstated interval.  Being a New Yorker, born and bred, I muttered, "OH yeah"? And promptly backed out. Stay tuned for further developments and feel free to share your own memorable experiences.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Die polishing for clarity

[VKurtB]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:26 AM, Henri Charriere said:

It's been a few years since I ordered anything from eBay but I receive legal notices from them from time to time which I pay no attention to.  I know whatever they decide to do, they do not have my best interests at heart.

However, disregarding the multitudinous complaints about the site as registered by credible members intermittently here, I threw all caution to the wind, took a deep breath, and plunged into the world of international commerce, buying sight-seen (which a member here stated is the case if there is a return policy in place). 

I was actually viewing tokens generally and before long ventured into Etsy -- and the wonderful world of counterfeits which only served to validate my opinion that no one -- neither young or old, newbie or numismatist ought to venture in if unaccompanied by an experienced adult.

Case in point: "copies" or "tributes," by whatever name known. In short order, I found something that caught my eye and, "prompted" to Buy Now or give it your best shot (actually, OBO, Or Best Offer, I did.)  We're talking minor purchase here, $19.99, exclusive of sales tax and shipping.  It was at that point I was rudely slapped in the face. Apparently, despite the fact you, the prospective buyer, are clearly given five offers to make, some algorithm guy in Nebraska (presumably acting at his employer's behest) decided my offer was not high enough to his liking. He suggested a much higher figure [that "the seller would be more inclined to accept." I looked to see where the seller of the fabulous fake was situated and presumably being shipping from, and was delighted to see it was Communist China. Guandong, to be exact. As is my nature, I balked. I structured my bidding sequence mentally to culminate in the suggested "sale" figure.  (The truth is, I envisioned a factory somewhere teeming with underpaid workers and figured the actual retail price of this semi-artistic work was pennies on the dollar, and acted accordingly). Not surprisingly, my offer was accepted. What was more surprising was discovering shipping was free and the response I received, in substance, Offer ACCEPTED; Pay Up! was astonishingly quick.  I was informed to expect the item within a range of time of up to three weeks. [No problem. I was in no rush.] They even provided a tracking number, and a "sales tax" of a dollar and change, which suggested to me this was a certifiably fugazy covert domestic operation with delivery to be effected by rickshaw.

Now, being a realist, I realize in posting this here, now, at least four charter members of NGC's resident Anti-Counterfeiting League have black-balled me (one of whom has his vomiting emoji at the ready to express his feeling as to my choice: giving aid and comfort to the enemy).

Do I expect to receive the purchase? Yes. And if I don't? I will cross that bridge when I come to it. My sole purpose in posting this is best expressed by a  man by the name of Frederick Charles Wood who, prior to being strapped into the electric chair in one of the last executions conducted by the state of New York, made a last statement to those assembled to witness his execution at Sing Sing in 1963: "Ladies and Gentlemen, you are about to witness a scientific experiment: the effect of electricity... on Wood," which he reportedly ended with a maniacal laugh before being strapped in.

I will post the results of my eBay "experiment," when the results, success of failure, come in.

One.more thing before I go... in another bid on yet another site, I discovered bidding procedures have since changed. For simplicity's sake, assume you are interested in an item and, factoring time left and the bid already attained, you tap the button to view bidding history and learn that while you were led to believe 7 bids had already been made, resulting in a paltry sum, say $35., you would assume $40. was in the realm of likely progression. WRONG! I was informed someone had already bid $55. and my bid would have to exceed that by an unstated interval.  Being a New Yorker, born and bred, I muttered, "OH yeah"? And promptly backed out. Stay tuned for further developments and feel free to share your own memorable experiences.

For me, if it has ANYTHING to do with mainland China, I’m OUT! No ifs, ands, or buts. That country can go straight to Hades, as far as I’m concerned. A global pariah. 

[zadok]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:49 PM, VKurtB said:

For me, if it has ANYTHING to do with mainland China, I’m OUT! No ifs, ands, or buts. That country can go straight to Hades, as far as I’m concerned. A global pariah. 

...very few coin collectors r aware that counterfeiting coins in china is actually a sanctioned industry n is recognized as such, actually applauded, far as i know the only coins not allowed to be counterfeited r the current circulating coins of china...buying any coin from any source u r not familiar with is asking for it, n the fakes r getting better...knowledge is king these days....

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:49 PM, VKurtB said:

For me, if it has ANYTHING to do with mainland China, I’m OUT! No ifs, ands, or buts. That country can go straight to Hades, as far as I’m concerned. A global pariah. 

Yes, yes, single-issue voter, I know, but I am conducting an ongoing experiment regarding coercive selling tactics and practices and do not have the time (or the appropriate forum) to provide conclusive proof that the 1.2 billion people of the second most populous country on the face of the Earth -- minus a repressive regime led by a dictator -- present a clear and present danger to you, me, or anyone else, and especially so at our advanced ages. I am, however, obligated to defend (within Board guidelines) your constitutional right to express your views, and would so w/o equivocation.  

The "coin" is in transit. When I have it in hand, I will post the photos along with pertinent postal markings and accompanying documentation. Word.

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:20 PM, zadok said:

...very few coin collectors r aware that counterfeiting coins in china is actually a sanctioned industry n is recognized as such, actually applauded, far as i know the only coins not allowed to be counterfeited r the current circulating coins of china...buying any coin from any source u r not familiar with is asking for it, n the fakes r getting better...knowledge is king these days....

You honor me as always with your sagacious advice.  Rest assured the coin I have ordered can in no way be mistaken for any genuine counterfeit.  The reviews, likely real, were of no concern to me as this artistic genetic mule lies squarely within the realm of hobodom, only larger.  You'll see.

[Hoghead515]

Ive made several buys off Ebay.  Ive got some very nice coins from there. Some of my better coins have been off Ebay. Ive got burned a couple times also. No counterfeits yet but I got a couple cleaned and tooled on coins. And one that was not the coin in the description. Its still a great site but you just have to be careful and deal with reputable dealers. One thing I cant figure out is how some sellers keep 100% positive feedback when I know Ive left a negative response. I cant remember the sellers name but, I remember seeing other members on the forum saying the same thing of how they left netural and negative feedback on the same seller. We was talking about it on here a couple years ago. I usually save the sellers Ive had good experiences with and buy from them if they get something in I want. I have took chances with other sellers that had coins I wanted and had great experiences also. Ive had a couple that the coin looked better in hand than in the pictures. I made it a habit to buy from sellers in the US only. There is a seller across seas that has some beautiful British Farthings Ive been thinking about taking a chance on but Im still a little gun shy. They got some Id like to have for my Farthing album Im putting together. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:31 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Ive made several buys off Ebay.  Ive got some very nice coins from there. Some of my better coins have been off Ebay. Ive got burned a couple times also. No counterfeits yet but I got a couple cleaned and tooled on coins. And one that was not the coin in the description. Its still a great site but you just have to be careful and deal with reputable dealers.  

Did you ask for a refund....credit...or reduction in price...for coins which turned out to be cleaned, altered, etc. ?

Edited August 25, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:31 PM, Hoghead515 said:

.... One thing I cant figure out is how some sellers keep 100% positive feedback when I know Ive left a negative response....

Good question.  There was a dealer I had acquired a coin from [as a happy, satisfied, repeat customer] whom I had asked to forward my coin directly to a TPGS for cross-grading. He complied and in due course called me directly to inform me the coin had failed to cross. My money was refunded in full minus costs. No problem, right? Well, there wasn't, until there was: I checked the eBay site, found the coin, and examined it. Up close. REALLY CLOSELY!  I know the series I collect as well as anyone else does and own several at the high grade sought, MS-67, and -- I hope Kurt doesn't see this, was astonished to find the obverse legends and field battle-scarred beyond belief! And then, the coup de grace: it had been re-posted to their website and I was asked for a review by eBay.  I did the unpardonable...  I spoke the unvarnished truth!  A RESPONSIBLE SELLER WILL NOT RETURN A COIN TO STOCK PRETENDING NOTHING UNTOWARD EVER HAPPENED!

My editorial position, which many viewers may disagree with, is:  I couldn't care less about the costs incurred in submitting a coin for re-consideration.  True, certification (grading) is not your responsibility, but making your problem someone else's is NEVER an acceptable solution. (That applies universally to ALL "problem coins," and more to the point, counterfeits.

Upshot: I was openly, unambiguously and shamelessly offered $20. if I would kindly delete the negative review! Bribery? Huh? I declined and did so politely. [The seller, last I checked, maintains his stellar reputation.] 

I apologize if I gave you the impression I was portraying eBay, generally, in a harsh spotlight. My topic was confined solely to sellers in "condition" locations, such as China, Nigeria and off-the-beaten track areas of the world. I undertook a "test-drive" of China via eBay because the product (you will see it when it comes... if it comes)  was certifiably inauthentic and involved a comparatively paltry sum. [I took exception to another otherwise congenial colleague's broad condemnation of China because it made no exemption for Tibetans, the Uighurs, and the Falun Gong folks. It would be tantamount to those waving banners overseas vowing "Death to America" or criticizing 'Bama rushees.     

[Hoghead515]

On 8/24/2023 at 11:39 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Did you ask for a refund....credit...or reduction in price...for coins which turned out to be cleaned, altered, etc. ?

It was when I first started collecting. I didnt know any better. I noticed it later on after I joined this forum and then it was to late. 

[Hoghead515]

On 8/24/2023 at 11:46 PM, Henri Charriere said:

 

I apologize if I gave you the impression I was portraying eBay, generally, in a harsh spotlight. 

Not at all. I just saw an oppurtunity to share some of the experiences I had on Ebay. So far I havent bought from any sellers across seas yet but Ive been thinking about taking a chance on that Farthing dealer. Hope everything goes good on your purchase. 

[Jason Abshier]

I’ve bought tons of stuff over the years on EBay . Knock on wood I gotten everything I paid for too …. I used to buy a lot coins on eBay , lately I haven’t been using eBay too much …. Only if I see a really nice medal or coin I ALWAYS make an offer ! Just like if I were going to coin show same applies I make an offer and haggle the price …. other than that I use auction houses like heritage , Stacks , Great collections , European auction houses 

Now a days my wife mostly uses the EBay for her exotic plants she collects heavy in exotic plants not uncommon for her to spend/bid upward $400+ on certain plants she been ordering a lot from all over the states she hasn’t had one problem with her plants arriving just hope she’ll make a business out of it someday so I can retire early . HA 

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/24/2023 at 11:39 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Did you ask for a refund....credit...or reduction in price...for coins which turned out to be cleaned, altered, etc. ?

As member Hog' has responded to your query, I should like to add a few observations of my own... Unlike social media platforms some of which have weathered withering criticism for their effects on the mental health and well-being of impressionable, young adolescents, eBay poses challenges of its own. Moderators here would be pleased to learn I use my time-outs and, at times, direct confrontational style, to give purveyors of questionable goods a sound thrashing. I single out sellers who use numismatic terminology loosely and irresponsibly. For example, "very rare," "high grade," "frosted gem," with what I call a "kicker" attached: "heirloom piece" "Only 1 left" to get you to hastily commit yourself to buying an ordinary, common, circulated coin. Recourse? Sometimes there is none because "No Returns" or "No Refunds" are interwoven into the -script that includes lines like "hundreds of satisfied buyers."  Tap onto the tab marked Further descriptions and your ebbulient seller with the effervescent personality and upbeat manner will bare his teeth using disclaimers such as "study the photos carefully" and "the item you see is the item you will get." In other words, "I have given you all you're going to get. The decision is yours to make. If you are interested in a big ticket item, an uncertified coin coupled with a No Return policy, spells trouble. Ads placed by experienced sellers from reputable firms will be transparent and inviting; ads placed by otherwise unknown individuals will be defensive and put you in the driver's seat: you're either all-in, like "Jeopardy James," or out.  I make use of the "Contact Seller" feature to cut to the chase by providing, in the case of my series, mintages and number of certifications and recent selling prices to justify my case for a lower price or a nominal percentage off the listed price. One dealer, who stood his ground, shot back: "We believe this to be the FMV for this item." (No Sale.) I asked another seller if the serial number of the bullion bar displayed in the ad (with an unusually attractive sequence) would be the one I would be sold. He skirted the issue by replying ambiguously: "Yes, the bar will have a serial number." This exchange went back and forth fruitlessly until I put my foot down and said, "You are being unresponsive," before closing with "and besides, the price of silver has been falling for some time." He did not like my reply and badgered me with a series of price cuts which I ignored. As much as I would prefer an honest and open exchange to one that is guarded, sometimes that is not always possible. The only way to learn how to swim is to jump in and get your feet wet and hope you don't step onto a sting ray.

 

[Conder101]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:20 PM, zadok said:

the only coins not allowed to be counterfeited r the current circulating coins of china.

Anything after 1949 when the CCP took over the country.

[Henri Charriere]

The above piece, entitled "Skeletons on Prison Liberty One Dollar Money Hobo Nickel Coin Collectibles G1," (no commas) arrived earlier than expected and was placed in my mail box earlier today. The tracking number was a combination of letters and numbers 28 spaces long. Notably absent from the shipment was an invoice, or documentation of any kind inside or out, as is customary from vendors using eBay.

For various reasons, I am disappointed in the fact that the eBay ad clearly stated the "coin" was to be shipped from Guangdong, China but there is no indication supporting that claim on the label of the generic bubble pack mailed to me -- shipping was free -- discreetly from a likely non-descript warehouse in Louisville, Kentucky. (I wonder if our mild-mannered Just Bob will insist on an investigation of that lackluster location as a conduit for questionable [Red China] artifacts from abroad.) 

Others well versed in these, pieces with heft, minted with a very fine reeded edge (which serves no useful purpose as no claim was made the metal used was silver) likely would know how to classify them.  Is it a counterfeit, a big hobo nickel, a token, or something in between? If there is a member who would like to have this whatever-it-is, kindly text me and it's yours free for the asking. My experiment is over.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Henri Charriere
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