Conder101

The 1966 date was the date the design was adopted, the actual striking date as I said is found incused into the two stars.  This was a common practice with Spanish coins from 1949 to 1982..

Notgeld can be interesting.  I just collect the metal municipal issues.  No porcelain, or private issues.  I have over 1,800 different pieces from over 600 municipalities.  But most of mine are nowhere near as nice as the ones posted here.  One of my favorites is the Westphalia issues.  I have all but one of the varieties and I have both varieties of the 1 billion mark pieces (Huge coins, 60 mm in diameter)  Most of them use the same design.

The coin is not just triple struck it is also broadstruck with another planchet in the coining chamber below it so no rev image.

The coin is not just triple struck it is also broadstruck with another planchet in the coining chamber below it so no rev image.

No it is a Wide AM, just as it is supposed to be.

No it is a Wide AM, just as it is supposed to be.

The "66" peseta is actually a 1969,  The date is in the stars on the reverse.  The 19 is in the lower star and 69 in the upper one.  The Belgium franc is showing die deterioration doubling.

You think there are a lot from Kentucky, the Coal Scrip catalog (Edkins) comes in two volumes that are about the same size.  One volume is West Virginia, the other volume is the rest of the country.

They do, but it is VERY slight, not like what you would normally expect.  Many early description of these coins say there is no damage to the reverse but the ones I have examined do have very slight deformation on the reverse.  Early writers speculated that tey were done at the mint and done while the coins were still in the die.  That would support the entire surface of the reverse and prevent the rev damage.  I don't believe they were done at the mint, but placing them in a discarded rev die could be a possibility.  But if you didn't have the die they came from I would expect damage ofa different type.  Unfortunately i had not considered that when I had the chance to examine them so I didn't look for other damage.

You think there are a lot from Kentucky, the Coal Scrip catalog (Edkins) comes in two volumes that are about the same size.  One volume is West Virginia, the other volume is the rest of the country.

You think there are a lot from Kentucky, the Coal Scrip catalog (Edkins) comes in two volumes that are about the same size.  One volume is West Virginia, the other volume is the rest of the country.

A couple more things about these coins.  The letter are punched into the same locations on both the 1815 and the 1825's, the E is always over the peak of the cap, and the L is always close to star 7.  The E and the L punches are the same on both the 1815 and 1825 coins.  There was only one die variety in 1815 so all the punched coins are on the one variety, but in 1825 there were three die varieties but I believe all of the punched coins are all on the same variety.  If they had been punched much later than 1825 there would have been a much greater chance they would have been on more than one variety. 

They do, but it is VERY slight, not like what you would normally expect.  Many early description of these coins say there is no damage to the reverse but the ones I have examined do have very slight deformation on the reverse.  Early writers speculated that tey were done at the mint and done while the coins were still in the die.  That would support the entire surface of the reverse and prevent the rev damage.  I don't believe they were done at the mint, but placing them in a discarded rev die could be a possibility.  But if you didn't have the die they came from I would expect damage ofa different type.  Unfortunately i had not considered that when I had the chance to examine them so I didn't look for other damage.

They had no value in 1913 because they weren't known to exist.  In 1919 Samuel Brown posted advertisements in The Numismatist offering to buy  1913 V nickels for $500 each, later raised to $600.  In 1920 he displayed the five coins implying that he had managed to purchase them through his ads.  Later he offered them for sale  but eventually ending up selling all five coins for $600..
Of the 11 specimens listed by PCGS I believe two are in government hands and 8 of them are owned by Tommy Bolack.  Tommy buys every one that comes on the market.

Most of the 1943 coppers were found in circulation, the two most recent were from the estates of mint workers that worked at the mint in 1943.  MAYBE they found them in circulation, but it seems an unlikely coincidence.  As for the 1974 aluminum cents, one was supposedly dropped by a Congressman and picked up by a Capitlal worker who was told to keep it (Toven specimen) and the Smithsonian specimen was found by a congressional aide in the drawer of an outgoing Congressman's desk.  I wouldn't call either of theose "in circulation".  The 1974 D aluminum cent came from the estate of the Denver mint superintendent.  Again not from circulation.
The court ruled that I think one or two of the Sac mules were circulation finds, but that the rest were smuggled out of the mint and are government property.  I don't believe they have tried to recover them though, even though they know where they are.

If someone came forward with several more 1913 V nickels there probably wouldn't be any problem.  Just like the last two 1943 copper cents that turned up recently in the hands or family members of people that worked at the Philadelphia mint in 1943.  The 1913 V nickel and the 1943 copper cents have already been accepted as being legal to hold.  There was never a government pronouncement that they were government property.  The 1933 double eagle, the 1974 aluminum cents have been declared government property so they are automatically considered "stolen" even before any explanation can be brought forth to explain how they were acquired.  They are "Guilty until proven innocent", and you can't prove them innocent because they have already been declared guilty.

Describing them as "Proofs"  is a relatively recent thing.  In older sales (probably 1960's or earlier) they were not called proofs.  The same was true with the 1913 V Nickels.  They all used to be considered business strike quality as well, though sometimes called proof like.
 
Flynn accounts for most of them as being destroyed in various assayings.  It's been awhile since I've reead his book so I can't be more precise.

A couple more things about these coins.  The letter are punched into the same locations on both the 1815 and the 1825's, the E is always over the peak of the cap, and the L is always close to star 7.  The E and the L punches are the same on both the 1815 and 1825 coins.  There was only one die variety in 1815 so all the punched coins are on the one variety, but in 1825 there were three die varieties but I believe all of the punched coins are all on the same variety.  If they had been punched much later than 1825 there would have been a much greater chance they would have been on more than one variety. 

Most of the 1943 coppers were found in circulation, the two most recent were from the estates of mint workers that worked at the mint in 1943.  MAYBE they found them in circulation, but it seems an unlikely coincidence.  As for the 1974 aluminum cents, one was supposedly dropped by a Congressman and picked up by a Capitlal worker who was told to keep it (Toven specimen) and the Smithsonian specimen was found by a congressional aide in the drawer of an outgoing Congressman's desk.  I wouldn't call either of theose "in circulation".  The 1974 D aluminum cent came from the estate of the Denver mint superintendent.  Again not from circulation.
The court ruled that I think one or two of the Sac mules were circulation finds, but that the rest were smuggled out of the mint and are government property.  I don't believe they have tried to recover them though, even though they know where they are.

A couple more things about these coins.  The letter are punched into the same locations on both the 1815 and the 1825's, the E is always over the peak of the cap, and the L is always close to star 7.  The E and the L punches are the same on both the 1815 and 1825 coins.  There was only one die variety in 1815 so all the punched coins are on the one variety, but in 1825 there were three die varieties but I believe all of the punched coins are all on the same variety.  If they had been punched much later than 1825 there would have been a much greater chance they would have been on more than one variety. 

You should probably talk to NGC customer service before you send them in.  You can probably get them slabbed as GENUINE,  but probably not with the El Cazador provenance.  They MIGHT accept the COA but you need to confirm that with them first..  And you probably won't get the COA back.

And then they don't understand when those of us FROM the previous century get so annoyed with them.
Maybe they hope they can get one of those large dates to go woke and "identify" as a small date.

And then they don't understand when those of us FROM the previous century get so annoyed with them.
Maybe they hope they can get one of those large dates to go woke and "identify" as a small date.

Anything after 1949 when the CCP took over the country.

And then they don't understand when those of us FROM the previous century get so annoyed with them.
Maybe they hope they can get one of those large dates to go woke and "identify" as a small date.