EagleRJO

@The Neophyte Numismatist did say "anyone ... and I mean anyone" so I figured why not. And here is the news story I read which got me thinking about this even though I'm not a Crypto person (although my son made a killing on I think Ethereum with a buy in 2019 at a ridiculous low) ... Most big cryptocurrencies decrease as Polkadot tumbles (msn.com)

Btw, does anyone know why the 2023 RB has the 2022 prices? Were they constantly behind a year, and then at some point got caught up and were like ... "Oh well, we can just add a year to the title"?

Sound like whizzed coins have quite the negative reputation, and maybe why I do often see Details - Cleaned coins on say Great Collections, but this is the first time I have seen the Whizzed label.

I am a newer collector, other than going thru pocket change and rolls, and one of the things I really struggled with at first, and I am still working on, is grading coins in general. I would get a handle on that first before you go thru the coins. I got the latest 2023 ED of the Red Book (RB) which has the 2022 prices. Strange, but that's how they do it, and in the RB there are basic grading descriptions for each major type of coin (e.g. Morgan 1878-1921) which I find helpful. I also got the ANA Grading Standards Book 7th ED which I am finding very helpful, with both pictures and detailed descriptions of each grade for the major coin types, including all 10 MS grades 60 thru 70. Although for now I am just lumping all MS grades together in either BU or Gem BU and will work on the more nuanced difference between say an MS-65 and MS-66 when I have more experience. And of course, there are additional online references for grading like the PCGS Photograde which includes guidelines for appearance or eye appeal, but I found I needed a basic handle on major grades (e.g. G vs F) before the lightbulbs started going off with the different picture grades and appearances with only very basic descriptions ... PCGS Photograde Online Just my 2 (Indian Head) Nickels

I hear you guys, thanks for the advice. The issue is that an un-impaired 1893-S Morgan is beyond my budget in any condition, and similarly others in the target min XF condition for my set. That is why I was looking into lower grade or impaired coins (both lower grade and impaired for the 1893-S) as an option to complete the set without breaking the bank. Another option is always not to complete the set, which I am also kicking around specifically because of coins like the 1893-S.

Sounds like this has been kicked around a few times before. Okay, so was that an AU coin which was "whizzed" to look like an MS? Alternatively, it could be an XF coin "whizzed" to look like an AU, so maybe it's not dropped a grade automatically and the designation indicates that the AU appearance is suspect? I don't think it really matters to me because any way you slice it, Details-Cleaned or Details-Whizzed, the coin has been altered/damaged and isn't worth as much or as desirable. I might even prefer whizzed if priced at the lower grade because it might appear to be a higher grade. So, if that AU Details - Whizzed is priced like a cleaned XF I could see that as an advantage.

Okay, I'm not a Crypto guy or investor, but I will give it a shot at a total oversimplification just for fun, without the fiat reference, and I can do it with just one sentence: Profit and loss is based on differences in valuation, with valuation resulting primarily from supply and demand. Seems to me that just like any other commodity, or more so for a "collectible" without any or very little inherent value (like some coins lol), given a fixed amount (e.g. 21 mil for Bitcoin) as demand increases so does price, and as demand decreases the price decreases. And without a valuation that includes tangible things people can wrap their heads around, that can drop like a rock and then poof its completely gone into the ethers like some have.

Okay, why is this labeled as a Details "Wizzed" cleaned coin, and why isn't it just noted as a Details Cleaned? Also, I'm looking at Details coins for a few costly Morgans in my circulation set, including the Details-Wizzed 1893-S, although I think even Details for that AU will be too much. How do you gage a fair value for problem coins like that? Maybe @Sandon has some insight? Roughly 1/2 to 2/3 regular fmv?

Ouch, and of the 1,200 how many are still around? if I was doing a half dollar collection I would go for the 1836 lettered edge half for sure.

Okay NP. Good to know that for the Capped Bust half dollars value depends on the edge type, as I might start collecting halves after Morgans. That or Trade Dollars, but those can be pricey, so I'm not sure yet.

What I was curious about was that you were hoping to "find one that may have a chip out of it before they changed the die". I just didn't know if having a chip out is a real rarity, or possibly just one you haven't found yet since you have 3 die cracked cents so far. Have not found Yet, you never know! I am prolly gonna get sucked into looking for certain errors when I am going through my quarter and half dollar rolls.

At coin dealers and coin shows? I am having trouble finding raw ones locally for rarer years/mints. There are a few shops around me which just seem to carry the more common raw ones. Do you mean the lettered edge would be a rarity? I thought all those earlier 1815-1838 Capped Bust quarters are supposed to have a reeded edge.

I was going to use cups by year to roll sort, but I might try the trays. 😉

I don't think it would be worth a lot, not cleaned. It would probably come back Details like most are saying. There are a few listings for similar AU Details ones just sitting since May or June where they are asking $350 to $400, and completed bids/sales (not listings) are going for around $250 to $300. Both a significant reduction from list. I am coming up on a few very expensive Morgans for the complete circulation set I'm collecting, and I am really thinking about problem or details coins as an option due to the significant reduction. [Most collectors don't want the dreaded Details label/coins, so it's probably going to someone who (1) doesn't know what they are buying or (2) they know and need to fill a specific gap in a collection at a lower price. And good luck selling it cause then you would have to hope one of those buyer types comes along just to break even or limit ur loss.]

Converted ice cube trays maybe?

Sounds like you have a ready supply of fresh coins from around the area/country. I think I recall you recently found a quarter you were not expecting to see too. Anyway, happy roll hunting and I hope you find your 1995 D cent. I just got my first two Littleton quarter books for 1999-2021 so I will be joining you with the roll hunting soon after I go through the 50 state boards my kids and I have. Really nice, well-made coin books too. Now, let's see what everybody has in their pockets too.

Probably a bulk submission from the dealer where they have special deals with the TPG's to bulk grade bags/rolls of coins and only number grade an MS-XX or above per the dealer, and anything that doesn't make the cut designate it BU (Mint State 60 at least) for a lot less per coin. I would be willing to bet the family ranch that the larger dealers either go through rolls/bags or has the TPG do it to cherry pick higher grading MS raw coins worth more, particularly if slabbed/graded.

Actually, looking at pic 3 closely there seems to be different contact marks vs pic 2, so that may be a different coin. And a non-responsive seller is a good indication.

Where is the scratch/crack in the third view? Cat whisker on the holder like Kurt suggested?

I don't collect errors so I am curious why you would look for that? Limited numbers?

Thanks JP. Just really tracking for price now with these, unless a really good deal comes up. But "pass" on Coin one as it has that ding on rev, or "pass" since it looks cleaned? And would that ding result in "Details" for future reference? It does appear to be damage not from the mint. Also, something is just rubbing me the wrong way with the color of Coin (3) almost like it's a silver-plated replica token like the attached.

Yea, that's always a concern with these rarer raw Morgans. Then again, those marks look a lot like the ones on this NGC XF-45 slabbed one ,,, Verify NGC Certification | NGC (ngccoin.com) So, what do you guys think XF-45 (if not Details), XF-40 & VF-25?

I have a few more XF Morgans I would like to get some opinions on and to check how I am doing grading these raw coins. Note, these coins are rarer dates so there is an incentive to overstate the XF grade for the seller. The first 1895-O Coin (1) I thought might be AU except for the ding at the rim on the rev 12 o'clock, so then maybe just XF (or Details due to the ding?) ... but that one does look cleaned with numerous scratches/scuffs in the fields. I think the second Coin (2) is an XF. Some wear on both sides, but pretty clear hair, wheat, ear, feathers, wreath etc. The last Coin (3) I think is a VF, maybe even a VF+, as there is some wear of the hair and top of the eagles' wings, but not that extensive. But not an XF as claimed, and there is some discoloration in general which seemed off.

Doing a little more digging as I am looking for the 1880 & 1881 Morgans, since 11 coins for one year couldn't be right. It turns out that there are just five (5) regular production "Circulation Strike" coins for 1880 with (P), 2 for CC, O & S. The others are apparently VAM's and not included in the NGC Registry "Complete" Circulation Set. Well, that's a relief, particularly just 2 of the CC's which can get expensive.

Yes to all 3. And I wasn't complaining or anything, I was just having a little fun. It just seems there are only a handful here that prefer or target raw coins for collecting like me, and I was chuckling to myself thinking about what my grandfather would have said if I showed him a coin I bought in one of the newer plastic coin holders.