EagleRJO

I asked for some more pics of that second coin, which may just be a pic issue. In the meantime, how about the attached 1884-CC Morgan? It's also supposed to be BU, but there are quite a lot of marks and chatter on the obverse. I think I have seen similar marks on an MS, but maybe not to that extent. Perhaps it's actually a high AU?

I was looking into adding a few older mid to late 1800's half dollars to my collection because I like the way they look, and funny enough the 1854-O Arrow Seated Liberty Half Dollar was one in particular since it's a high-mintage low-cost option in circulated grades to start with for that era (or maybe a high-mintage low-cost 1858-O). But apparently those half dollars are faked, including the 1854-O even though it's not worth that much, and some are unbelievably good. So, even though I prefer raw coins I might get a few slabbed, which shouldn't be that much more for a few coins. Also, see the linked Coin Week article below about that and the attached fake referenced in the article. Article: Counterfeit Coin Detection - 1854-O Arrows Seated Liberty Half Dollar (www.coinweek.com/us-coins/counterfeit-coin-detection-1854-o-arrows-seated-liberty-half-dollar/) The coin that @Mr.Bill347 posted has a date mark that is kind of close, but still looks off, to only one of multiple dozens of PCGS CoinFacts and PhotoGrade examples specifically for an 1854-O Arrow Seated Liberty Half Dollar, and for that one which had a somewhat similar date it has a completely different mint mark position, and the mint mark doesn't even match any of the examples. Is the coin a fake? Idk, that would have to be determined by an expert, but there are enough red flags for me to walk away. He may very well be a straight up dealer who truly believes it's not a fake, but how was that established since it's raw and some of the fakes are very good. I guess if you really want the coin, you could work out some kind of deal where he sends it in for TPG verification, which shouldn't be that much more as a dealer if he regularly submits coins, and if it comes back real add it to the cost or something like that. Or maybe just go with a different slabbed one he has. Just my 2 (Indian Head) nickels.

You know what they say about too good to be true. 😉 I buy almost all raw coins so I try to be extra careful checking all the basic stuff.

Did you try to grade it by comparison to pics in the PCGS CoinFacts? See attached VF example which might be about the same wear. Right away the year numbers look off (font, size, spacing, clearance to other elements, etc.) as well as the mint mark location. Those are usually the first two things I look at.

@DWLange Nice article. I chuckled when I read about the re-toning of coins where you say: "Most, however, were toned excessively ... As a coin whisperer, I know them when I see them, and I feel their pain." I was a little surprised as a "coin whisperer" you don't use any XF graded coins as examples, as I can actually see those coins having a backstory like someone having say a Morgan dollar in their pocket for a while, which is relatively large and heavy, and then just putting it away because of that. Lightly circulated like that would probably end up grading XF.

Sounds about right with all those "Danger" and "Flammable" warnings and symbols on the bottles.

@VKurtB Did you mean the overexposure referenced to the 1879-CC or the 1883-CC? Is the overexposure why you have a "hard time" with that one?

I have not held that coin in the first pic of an 1883-CC in hand, so I don't know and why I asked about an appearance that just seemed off. Maybe someone did try to brighten a photo to make it appear better than it may actually be. I will ask for some more photos and see what they come back with.

Acetone that is ACS Grade is readily available on say Amazon which is where I got some pictured below.

The BU photo I subsequently posted is taken from a dealer I have bought a lot of raw coins from, and they have been virtually dead on with what actually ends up in my hand. [Edit: However, with a lighter more silver like look as Coinbuf correctly noted, as opposed to the darker appearance of the pic which I compressed/reposted quickly without really looking at it, but not the whitewashed or blast white appearance I see sometimes like with the orig BU posted]. Granted, just looking at photos can't always represent what a coin will look like, particularly with less experienced people taking the photo and different lighting, but from holding coins described and pictured as "blast" white it seems to always have a somewhat of a whitewashed/dipped appearance, and why I decided to post the orig BU one I saw for some feedback.

There are empty GSA boxes/holders and COAs being sold on eBay all the time, and I'm sure unscrupulous people just plug a BU in there and put it up for sale as a GSA Morgan. I don't think I would buy any GSA coin unless it was already certified by a TPG, and those get very pricy ... way overpriced imo.

I understand that there are many raw Morgans around that dealers previously lightly dipped to slightly improve the appearance, which they did not consider detrimental or the same as cleaning or whizzing a coin. And the TPGs apparently don't specifically look for dipped coins or automatically give it a Details designation if there is any truth to that. Even so, I just don't like the way it sometimes gives a coin that whitewashed appearance or gives a coin that bright or "blast" white appearance. I'll take a coin that looks more like the BU I posted above any day.

You guys are correct that it's not acidic, I was thinking of the oil on ur fingers and @Oldhoopster that is quite the supply of acetone!

The following are articles from NGC and PCGS about cleaning coins, with the NGC article making a vague reference to acetone for fingerprints, and with the PCGS article specifically mentioning acetone. I am a newer collector, but my understanding is that submerging a coin in acetone to remove loose grime and fingerprints is okay, [edit] and NO NOT RUB OR WIPE a coin even to dry it. That can move dislodged particles around the surfaces causing scratches. Fingerprints And Conservation | NGC (ngccoin.com) Detecting Doctored Coins, Part 1 (pcgs.com) I got a kick out of the quote in the PCGS article about an astute numismatist who said: "All coins are doctored ... It's just a matter of degree and by whom, Mother Nature or Joe Dipper."

This is what I would expect an 1883-CC BU to look like

Just curious if people think the first Morgan was cleaned. Something is just rubbing me the wrong way, like dark spots within letters and the different Obv and Rev appearances. Also looks like a VF, not an XF. Also, second one looks like a BU but just too bright like a blast white, maybe dipped (my dreaded enemy with older raw Morgans lol).

@VKurtB I was really thinking about this comment, and I agree with you that a coin with some light cleaning may not be that bad of a thing to make it an automatic reject, compaired to say whizzing (my new favorite word) or dipping, at least for me. I mean I avoid dipped coins because I see it as an intentional act to deceive a buyer, just like whizzing seems to be, whereas I might consider a scratched coin which can be unintentional damage, or a lightly cleaned coin since it can be an un-intentional effort to improve the appearance of an old dirty coin. I could see how an average person could find an old grungy coin, with the first reaction being "hey, let me clean this up and get rid of all this dirt and grime". Not, I better not touch it because I will probably scratch it, remove mint luster and get corrosive oils from my fingers on the coin.

@SandonThats a nice 1840 $1 as well as the 1836 Reeded 50 Cent from another post, and I particularly liked the latter. Looks like you have acquired quite a few nice coins over the years and assembled a lot of NGC sets, and I really liked your cleaned coins custom set (Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set.

You may be right historically and possibly for coins other than the ones I have been looking at which include the older/newer Morgans, ASEs. Trade Dollars, Peace Dollars as well as many of the older/newer quarters and half dollars. I still use RB and Coin World for a rough idea on values, particularly when looking at differences between say a $50 coin vs a $500 coin, and then I dig deeper from there [looking at NGC/PCGS values and auction results] if I am actually interested. In any event, it just seems like prices have been ridiculous lately, and I'm hoping a momentary fad from having extra money to spend that passes.

Sounds like alot of the eBay i-diots that ridiculously price garbage coins, and when I make a reasonable lower offer on an occasional decent coin they get all huffy or defensive because they are an experienced coin dealer who know how to price things for current market conditions, and I should look at what others are asking. Yea right, and am I also interested in that bridge you have for sale because you are a bridge expert too.

Yes, for many of the moderately priced Trade Dollars as well as Morgans I have been looking into (earlier CC's, some late 1890's, and more recent "O" mint coins) Red Book has definitely been low compared to PCGS/NGC valuations and auction summaries, as well as actual sale prices at Great Collections and eBay. And those are eBay sale prices, and not listings which are "pie-in-the-sky-let-me-see-if-I-can-sell-to-a-sucker-prices" sometimes, often with cleaned or dipped garbage. An example I am watching prices on now is an 1893-O Morgan $1 graded XF-40. Red Book lists the value as $525. The PCGS value is at $750 which references auctions from 03/2022 to 07/2022 as going for between $630 to $797. Actual sale prices at Great Collections from Oct 2021 thru July 2022 (not referenced in the PCGS values) are between $692 and $984 with most in the low to mid $700 range, consistent with the $750 PCGS valuation for the XF 1893-O Morgan, and about 40% higher than RB. This has been the case for quite a few coins I am looking at. It looks like to me that prices have significantly spiked starting the end of last year to the beginning of this year, which I am hoping is just an anomaly with too many bored people having extra pandemic cash to spend.

It was ETH and he tried to get me to go in also, to which I responded something along the lines of "it's just a made-up thing that has no intrinsic value that could just disappear", or something like that. Meanwhile, years later I am still trying to identify low pivot points for gold spot prices and more recently trying to figure out how to properly assess valuation and what a break-even purchase point might be for a whizzed 1893-S Morgan Silver Dollar. Well, they both are really just collectibles that at its core are meant to enable purchasing or valuing something, and there are some people that actively collect the physical bitcoins. Very true. You could substitute "speculation" for "valuation" when it comes to crypto, or perhaps it may be more correct to just say "price" in my over-simplified analysis. Funny thing is crypto was supposed to be the currency end game, independent of central bank control or market conditions. What happened to that with the recent crypto cratering and some crashes. Seems they forgot that with poor market conditions people may think it will not hold value so they start selling it off, with that plummeting demand tanking prices, and in some cases making it disappear in a short time. Just my two (Indian Head) Nickels.

1895 is another year I am starting to shop around for. I am doing a circulation set so I'm skipping the 1895 (P) Proof as it was never "circulated" (wow, that was a close call with a small house priced coin ) and there is no slot for that in the NGC Registry Circulated Coins set for Morgans which I am using as a guide. 1895-O is more readily available, and for the 1895-S I will probably go with like a VF-35 or XF-40, which are close with XF the preference as my minimum. Maybe even a Details AU or XF+ depending on appearance and price. I saw the attached VF+ which I think I could get for a little over $600, but there is no rush and I'm just shopping around for now with that one. Looks like my only empty slot will be the 1893-S Morgan.

Thanks for the insight Sandon and others, which is why I asked because even though I set out on this Morgan journey to assemble a "complete" set I really am seriously considering just skipping the 1893-S. Even an AG Details goes for over $1,000 and I probably wouldn't be happy with it in a set that are generally all XF or better, with most being AU/BU. Who knows, maybe a stash with multiple bags of 1893-S coins will be found and I can one day actually complete the set.

Yea, I had heard that by the time the RB comes out the prices are already outdated, but they try to make that one of the last clean up items. Decent guide, although somewhat low in general sometimes. I was just curious why they don't name the edition the year it comes out ... e.g. earlier this year I bought the RD titled 2023 Edition, not 2022.