EagleRJO

There I was plugging along just collecting pocket change and other raw coins like half dollars and 50 state quarters (except for proof sets/coins through the US Mint periodically), including all raw coins even more recently when I decided to really focus on collecting as a hobby and assemble complete Morgan and ASE sets. Then I joined this board, and ... BAM ... I end up with two coins in plastic slab coffins recently, with my grandfather who collected raw pocket change and common coins turning over in his grave. I am just kidding, and I know you guys are just giving me good advice to help me from making mistakes others have made, which is much appreciated. One was a CC Morgan which I just couldn't find raw for a reasonable price (they get pricy) or that wasn't cleaned eBay garbage, which I got for a really good price bidding for it on GC. Thanks to those who recommended I check out GC. And the other was a BU (the redeeming part ) from a dealer where I liked the label for only $5 more than a raw which had been a little hard to find in clean BU condition.

I recently started collecting coins more seriously, and when it came to adding some gold coins I was interested in (I have mostly Eagles and some bullion coins now), I struggled with some of the questions you have. First, I decided why did I want the coins? The answer for me was not for the gold value, although that is a consideration in general. If I just wanted gold closer to spot price I could buy bullion bars for much less, with some of the minted gold bars looking really nice and shiny with details on one side. A step above that is like an American eagle gold bullion coin which I actually think looks really nice in hand, but not like many of the older collectable coins. So, for me its older collectible gold coins, because I really like the way they look. Next, I did some research into what coins I wanted and held a few lesser value ones in my hand (important imo, because some can be kinda small), and it ended up being 1 or 2 $5 Indian Head Gold Half Eagles and 1 or 2 $20 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagles. So, I started the following thread to get feedback, and there is a good discussion of the value of coins vs bullion, as well as the grades for gold coins in general. The following were the results of some price digging I did on the Gold Half Eagle ... 1909-D Slab Grade MS-64 $2,000 Random Year Slab Grade MS-62 $ 900 Random Year Slab Grade MS-61 $ 880 Random Year Raw Grade BU $ 860 1912 Slab Grade AU-58 $ 800 Random Year Raw Grade AU $ 750 Random Year Raw Grade XF $ 690 Random Year Raw XF Cleaned $ 650 1/4 oz American Eagle Gold Coin = $ 575 1/4 oz Suisse Gold Bullion Bar = $ 520 1/4 oz Plain Gold Bullion Bar = $ 480 Melt @ $1,750/oz & 0.2419 oz = $ 423 Prices were from large coin/bullion dealers. I wouldn't touch raw gold coins on Etsy, eBay or similar places due to many counterfeits particularly for the various gold eagles, even common years. And you might even get one from a larger dealer, but they have guarantees they have stood by for me. Mileage varies. I stopped looking above MS-64 as prices got crazy, and I had to do a double take with that as it was more than double a lower MS grade. Values for the $2.50 Gold Quarter Eagle will be less, but prob similar relative results. Essentially cleaned really didn't save much for raw at a lower grade (which you can always get slabbed for the TPG fees). And I am bailing on looking in XF grade, and maybe even AU grade, as not having nearly as nice an appearance as a BU or MS coin from what some have said and from what I could see from slabbed ones at a local shop. Also, I switched to looking for common year $20 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagles since prices are closer to but noy at spot. I am now looking for a random/common year BU grade Saint for around $1900 to $1,975 vs spot at around $1,750. Seems to me prices for the Gold Half Eagles are more about collector demand, and not heavily related to spot, as well as being overpriced now. Some of the more common Saints can be closer to spot. Heed the advice of other more experienced collectors here on the board, who are basically donating their time to help newer collectors like us not make the mistakes others have, which is much appreciated. Kudos to them. Just my 2 (Indian head) nickels

Yea, I am also starting at both ends and working inwards towards the middle for my Morgan "complete" set . Mostly because there are a number in the middle around the 1880's to 1890's like you mentioned that are pretty expensive in decent grades, and prices for the rarer or even semi-rare ones have just seemed over-inflated lately. Too many bored people with extra pandemic money. There are a lot of years/mints where I can scoop a really nice raw AU/BU grade coin for like $75 to $100 (sometimes under $50 or sometimes a little more), and slab them myself to save cash. For some I go down to an XF and go up in price to get a decent one. So, I have pretty much just been plugging away at those more common or semi-common ones a little at a time, and occasionally just getting like one coin while I shop around for some of the more expensive ones. Like the 1889-CC VF-35 attached I saw go for over $3,060 while I bid on a different one, which I guess was a good sign as it was valued by PCSG at $3,250. I was tempted to bid on it at under $3k but it wasn't an XF and decided that I could buy a whole bunch of BU ones for that price, which may come down more. There have been more expensive ones I skipped for now and will circle back to down the road, like the two 1879-CC's, where even for XF prices they also seem high now. And then of course there is the 1893-S where even an XF is close to the cost of a decent used car. Maybe by that time a stash of them will have been found bringing the price way down, like what happened with the 1903-O. And luckily since I am only doing a complete currency/business strike collection I don't have to worry about the 1895 (P) Proof (which is like the cost of a small house in a more remote area) or all the pricey VAM's.

I knew about the mass melting's, and the years where not that many survived in good condition, or at all, which of course restricts availability, and apparently Morgans are a popular coin with collectors due to the relative availability of older coins and the coin's designs, presentation and heft. 1903-O was the first year I hit with decent mintage (just a rarity indicator), but where the prices for better grade coins were high. That one's prob going to take a bit because I have been finding prices are generally high now. And nice 1903-O with the golden toning! I prefer either the brighter raw silver appearance or a lighter golden toning like on that coin. That would make sense as to why I see that shifted pricing sometimes. I actually think it might be pretty interesting to try putting together a "low ball set". Start out with perhaps another set that is not your favorite coins where there may have been a bunch of rarer years that you stepped down the grade considerably to complete the set without breaking the bank. It would definitely be less expensive to put together a set too.

Was going to bid on this Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle earlier but I didn't even bother because it was already up close to $2k and went for $2,012 in the end with a damaged/scratched holder. Oh, well I guess JP was right about everyone looking for a deal, and then ending up bidding it up anyway.

Agree. If Gollum collected coins, he would like them "Raw and Wiggly" . Hands down I prefer raw coins, where a nice orig BU does go over very well. Sounds like we are talking about a nice cold beer on a warm night. I wasn't planning on getting coin (2) but thought for a good price an FX+/- with nice details, and maybe a light cleaning that I could clean up a little more no worries, might be an option that would fit in my complete set. So, I made a low offer (prob a little better than your 1995 deal inflation adjusted ) and it was accepted. On to the next ones which are the 1880 (5 of those incl. 2 CC's) and 1903's, plus a few in between if a good price. Thats going to take a while. About that, I'm running into another price wall with the 1903-O Morgan, where a BU runs about $700 to $800 which is a no go, so maybe an XF for that one too. Can scoop a 1903(P) BU grade for about $100, and the two have the same mintage (indication of rarity). Looks like the 1903-O was almost non-existent until a stash was released by the US, similar to others, but are there still limited O numbers compared to Philly or other more common years, even though mintage numbers are close? Plus, the NGC Price Guide is pretty strange ... see attached with up/down prices from F to AU.

Wow, I guess that answers the question of if it could have theoretically come from the mint that way. I have had nothing but virtually perfect coins directly from the mint for a while, so I agree send it back. My money would be on you getting a much better coin in return. I am still curious how bad these dings were direct from the mint, so maybe you could post some pics anyway.

It's prob going to be hard for ppl to offer opinions w/o some good pics of both sides of each. Sounds like you bought raw Unc or BU coins, and to me that means they would grade MS-60 or better. Ask yourself if that could act happen at the mint or in storage if older. You can also check Photograde for some example MS grade conditions for those coins. I have bought a bunch of raw coins from some of the larger dealers, and there were a few I wasn't happy with (scrapes, spots, or dings, etc). I notified them immediately with pics and requested an exchange (varies, but usually has to be within a certain number of days). I sent them back, asked them to be more careful with the replacement, and was happy with what i received in the end. Your mileage may vary, but I would at least notify them if your not happy, even if you keep them in the end.

Sorry about your coin not being real. And that "0" on the obverse date is a total red flag. Still looks okay, even if it isn't real. And I have started collecting reproductions and fakes in a separate set, like the Dan Carr Morgan and Peace dollars. I just hope I don't have to add any of my own coins (purchased like they were the real deal since I get mostly raw coins) to that set.

That worked, thanks. I just thought the focus of the Half Eagle thread I started really changed to focus on Double Eagles, so I edited that.

Thats fine with me and makes sense with all the "gold diggers" (pun intended) out there. Sounds like they may be more of a real purist type collector and didn't get the coin to show off or anything. I was just curious. Maybe by changing the thread title to include Double Eagles [yes, that worked] they might make an appearance.

I just got up to the 1880 Morgans in my "complete" set, and it looks like there are 11 regular circulation strike coins that year, including 5 just from the Carlson City mint [great 5 of the less common CC coins, this is going to take a while ... lol]. Wow, Is that correct?

As the OP Is there a way to change the title of a thread I started, as the topic has really changed as the thread has progressed.

Wow, I just saw some numbers related to auctions for the only 1933 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle that can be legally owned by an individual. World record for a coin at auction in June of 2021. So, has the buyer revealed themselves if they are posting here, since at the time I believe they purchased it anonymously, or are you referring to Stuart Weitzman the previous owner of the coin? And maybe they know where I can get one of the early Double Eagles for like $1,900, but that's probably like pocket change for them.

Thats why when I label the easy-open holders I keep my coins in all the variations are labeled, including the regular issue variation. I do something similar with parentheses when there is no mint mark like for the 1878(P). For 1878 I labeled all 6 circulation strikes like that, and for the above "1879-S Rev of 78 Morgan Silver Dollar" and "1879-S (Rev of 79) Morgan Silver Dollar". The way the Red Book notes those reverse variations (for 1879 and other years/coins) was a little strange for me at first with 1879S "2nd Reverse" and "3rd Reverse". Initially, I was like okay, where is the third coin for that year/mint with the "1st Reverse".

Please don't. I have put a lot into bullion the last few years. Yea, yea I know, that's my problem.

It's not high relief, just small numerals on the edge. The high relief would present differently than the pic posted.

Are the first year 1907 Saints with no moto and the roman numerals on the edge worth a good premium of a little over $500 on top of a typ early 1900's Saint? [And yes, the small numerals on the edge, as I think there is only one know version with the large numerals on the edge.]

I meant to post this earlier for those that do not know there are variations in the 1879-S Morgans.

Nice! I do like the toning on yours which I think gives it character with that golden like appearance. Sometimes it's a little over the top or looks dark brown or covered with a splashed rainbow which doesn't look that great and I think takes away focus on the nice coin details imo. That one looks like a later year 1879-S Morgan (Rev of 79) as it has the sloped feathers at the end of the clutched arrow that the Rev was switched to later that year. Earlier that year they used the same Rev as the ones produced later in 1878 which had the 7 Tailfeathers for the eagle as well as a clutched arrow with straight feathers at the end of the arrow (called an 1879-S Rev of 78 Morgan). I think the sloped arrow feathers looks more natural. Attached are my 1879 Morgans I picked up recently, but I like my Morgans "Raw and Wiggly" as Gollum would say.

Yea seemed high then to me too, and if someone tells you they can predict lows/highs ask them for the bridge instead. Because even the experts who trade it for a living can't do that. I have looked for low pivots instead in the past which has panned out pretty good, but I am at a loss lately with these crazy swings and why I mentioned I have darts. Btw, how about one of these $1 Utah Gold Back's instead of actual gold ... well, it does have 0.03 grams of gold.

Was down to $1,718 on 7/26 and was on the way up, but hitting some stumbling blocks the last day. Crazy swings, like the market lately, but seems like a general downslide. Maybe I will just buy some more bullion at $1,600/oz if it gets there. But, would be nice to go back in time and buy some for $20 a coin/oz. Scoop a few 1933 double eagles while I was at it.

Your right, kinda. I just uploaded the wrong Photograde pic (that was a VF 1885 coin, good eye). I edited the attachments with the correct XF-40 PCGS Photograde pic (1884 coin). Comments still the same, as I am seeing less wear on the original coin (2) compared to a PCSG Photograde pic (PCGS Photograde - Morgan Dollars) as well as the ANA pics/details for an XF-40. Might even be close to an XF-45, which is why I was thinking XF+ more generally. Okay, now fire away. And what do you guys think about price for coin (2) as an option, accepting it may have been lightly cleaned? Looks like $300 to $400 for a high VF to low XF and $400 to $500 for XF looking at RB, Coin World, and NGC/PCGS guides. Maybe around $325 to $350 give or take considering it's likely been lightly cleaned?

So, who is going to take a shot at identifying the low pivot point for bullion, so we can buy Saints at the low? I have darts!

My understanding is they deduct that from the hammer bid, and also collect 20% from the buyer as a BP direct to them. I don't know how it works if it doesn't sell, because you know at least HA is going to get their pound of flesh.