EagleRJO

Nice! I like the overall toning of the Morgan. The Ben looks familiar too, like one someone was asking about (maybe you?) with a 3rd pic of what looked like a different coin. Did ya take the plunge and decide to get it in hand to see for yourself?

Yea, that's only if something doesn't look right or is way off from certified example as noted above ...

@tj96 That was a close call! You almost subjected yourself to heavily geared treasury agents wielding full-auto HK416s roping in at 2 am to confiscate your potentially forged legal tender coin.

I think the only known ones are from a collector who was friends with the mint director back then if I am remembering correctly. But who knows, maybe that mint director had other friends they shared some of those coins with, and I wonder if a director is permitted to keep any coins for themselves.

I just assumed that for pocket change, and not rolls/bags, that there would invariably be some contact or scuff marks that would not be consistent with MS coins that were not actually "circulated". I think Coinbuf gave a pretty good explanation. I gotta start checking my pocket change for that elusive 2009-D MS-68 Nickel. 😆

Hopefully you mean the Moonlight Mint coins and not the Proof ASE from the US Mint. And I hope that the Moonlight Mint coins and any Potty Dollars are the only "counterfeit" coins in my collection as I do buy a lot of raw coins and even TPG slabs are being knocked off. Buyer beware!

Yup, all the ones I have are staying in the OGP. But it's really a shame the mint started going on the cheap starting this year with the really cheesy felt glued plastic holders for the capsules, instead on the nice velvet spring boxes which I really liked.

It's actually pretty easy to check varieties for Morgans. VamWorld has a table by year and mint which you just click on, like 1903-O for this one, and the basic descriptions are listed right there. For this one it was an "O" mint mark which was set right and tilted left compared to the verified examples I was looking at (the first comparison I posted), which is a VAM-3, and clicking on that gives you descriptions & photos of the variety right there (the second comparison I posted). That also can give you any die lines or cracks which is another key comparison tool. I have imaging software to rotate and line up the two images which can be overlapped and swapped quickly to campare. I am more interested in raw coins and trying to be careful with possible counterfeit coins, even with some of the common date/mint Morgans. I started looking carefully at the dates and mint marks on raw coins after reading the chapter on "Identifying Genuine Coins" in the Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection by PCGS which stated right off the bat ... "Knowledge of die characteristics, the shape of mint marks, the styles of digits, and how coins are made all comes into play when confirming authenticity". I started noticing differences, sometimes significant in the location, spacing, and orientation of the lettering, dates and mint marks on some Morgans, mostly the last two as apparently these are hand punched into the dies for older coins like Morgans. So, I guess it just started becoming part of my routine in checking out older Morgans where they didn't match, or where I saw distinct marks that could be either a scratch or die line.

Thanks. There would really be no reason to have them authenticated/graded because they are staying in my collection. So, I was just kidding about having a TPG embalm them with acetone and then seal them in slab coffins. P.S. I also just added a 2022-S Proof ASE to the collection. I really like the way those coins look. [The only issue is the capsules are of a poorer quality compared to prior years and the coins now come in a really cheap looking dollar store type box and glued fell plastic insert.]

Some recent additions to my "Potty Dollar" collection with some replica coins by Dan Carr of Moonlight Mint. He does some amazing coins which are really stunning when you hold them in your hand under a light. I should send them into ANACS for grading/authentication which I understand they do for these coins. Then again, I think they will authenticate/grade just about anything.

That is actually a great idea that I wish I would have thought of when my Uncle passed who had some of my GF's coins. Wasn't really into collecting at that time. I will have to see what I can dig up.

I guessed VF and then went to CoinFacts and looked at F & VF grades. Seems like a lot more detail on the devices than an F (attached). Are you guys down grading for cleaned which I do see? Also, I think you really would have to see this one in hand to really judge because of all the marks on the beat-up plastic holder it is in, which isn't that apparent from the pics I cropped.

Okay thanks, that makes sense. Overall, some nice pocket change for being that old.

Thanks Sandon, it just seemed like every time I went to check if a Morgan was legit a die variety popped up, like with this coin and discussions of counterfeits seemed to commonly focus on the date and mint mark, which I understand can vary significantly with older coins as those things are hand punched for different dies. I have recently had a lot of Morgans in my hands working on my collection, but maybe that is just something that takes time to develop that feel if its legit or not. For now, I'm just trying to do the best I can at identifying problem or counterfeit coins.

Did you find the right VAM for that date and mint mark? That has been the sticky part for me.

Can you guys explain something to me. If they are both from pocket change wouldn't they both be AU at best, and if close to MS an AU-58?

I usually crop out the coin and put it side by side to compare to known examples, like this which doesn't take long to do at all. Now take that and go to the NGC/PCSG examples for that coin/grade and compare the two carefully. Keep in mind that it's my understanding that the date/mint are hand punched for each die for older coins so there can be variations with that I am still getting a handle on by going to sites like VamWorld.com. @Sandon may be able to provide a little more insight on variations in general.

Yea, the cert pages don't always have a pic. If your concerned post pics in a thread for ppl to check out and maybe give you some opinions either way. And I assume you have a given period of time from when you receive it to take a very close look in-hand. I would find the NGC/PCSG grade examples and varieties for the specific coin you purchased and carefully compare that to your coin.

What do you guys think of the grade on this one? I am thinking VF-20 or VF-25. It does appear to have a legit 5/2 die mark on the rev too.

The 1886-O is worth thousands in the mid MS grades where it's very profitable to swap out slabs/coins. I think for that one they used a significantly lower-grade legit coin and put it in fake slab with the higher-grade label. I guess it's always a possibility with any slab, but my guess is that it's much less likely for a $400 to $450 coin. But I try to be careful and check out everything I am going to buy, including the grade and correctness, even for slabbed coins.

Welcome to coin collecting as a hobby.

@Mr.Bill347 The attached is a counterfeit slabbed 1886-O Morgan from eBay, the legit slabbed 1886-O Morgan from GC, and a comparison of the bar codes from another forum.

@Sandon Great advice as usual. I buy very few coins on eBay, and those are almost always slabbed. The vast majority of raw coins I have are from very large/reputable dealers or local coin shops. However, I find going to eBay is a great place to check out raw garbage and learn about the grading and potential impairments and counterfeit coins, as opposed to just looking at a label. Remember, I am collection coins, not TPG labels so I need to try and have a good understanding of these coins regardless of where I ultimately buy them or if they come with another person's opinion.

Thanks, it may happen which is the risk I take with raw coins which is hands down my preference. So, I have been trying to learn as much as I can and post coins where I have questions.

You guys had to start talking about authentic Philly cheesesteak sandwiches ... now I'm gonna have to drive to the next coin show in Philly to get one. 😉