EagleRJO

Now that's a novel approach I have to try, offer the dealer a price equal to the coin date (just don't place the decimal point in the wrong spot). [Although you prolly could have found one just as nice in that 1939-1959 1,000 nickel coin bag ... ]

I mean I could see the advantage of having a CAC sticker for some of the rarer expensive coins, like some gold double eagles that are like $20k on up to over $100k, of knowing that at least another set of eyes looked at the coin for authenticity and more importantly grade where even a minor grade change or + designation could be a huge impact, at a comparatively minor additional cost. But for most coins collected I don't get the obsession of some or the likely false belief that a green beaned slab will probably up-grade demanding a premium on those slab coffins.

However, they forget to mention as a newer collector you will also need one of these babies called "Slab Crackers" to get those pesky TPG slab coffins open to save you coins from an acetone embalmed fate of never being in a collectors' hand ever again until the ending of time, or till the holder falls apart whichever comes first. [totally kidding, except for the tool name/use ]

I not sure I get the link between 2 specific types of coins and an industry wide shift from technical-based grading (imo more repeatable and consistent) to market-based grading (imo the original intent of the Sheldon scale), which some say resulted in many over-graded coins in general. And is it really just one guy cranking out all those untold number of little green beans all these years, on top of all the supposed CAC rejects, that has some collectors going ga-ga?

@Hoghead515 Do you get the individual proof coins as you go, or the sets (except 2018) after they have been produced for that year which are a little less? The sets looked nice from a quick look, but I'm thinking I probably would like the individual coins more which I assume come in some sort of capsule similar to the Proof ASEs. I was thinking I would like to holder them all the same and keep them together, including any others (I think 8 per year besides the proofs) that I get in BU grade over time.

I am completely okay with discussing AT in this thread as the subject is really about toning I noticed with a recent coin purchase. The milage of others may vary.

If they are "burnished" (which the US Mint usually [labels as] "uncirculated coins") it's not really my style. But the proof sets look nice, which I might enroll in instead of the ASEs until the mint fixes the issues with the capsules and presentation boxes for those. Raw coins are hands down my preference to holder or put in flips myself, and I noticed dealers have the older Innovation dollar coins in raw BU grade for only like $2 to $3 which I can start adding to orders and throw them in the mylar flips for easy storage, to go with other circulated $1 coins I plan to start getting in rolls. Boy, just what I need, another coin to start collecting. But at least they are not that expensive.

Sorry to spoil your fun JP. But on a lighter note, I saw the attached today and immediately chuckled and thought of your nickel collection. That would keep you busy over the winter since you already went through the rolls!

Some people swear by the USB scopes, so I tried one out but didn't like it. No substitute for me to holding a coin in your hand to tilt it while you look at it with a 40x loupe w/ built-in LED light. Even though I am a newer avid collector, maybe I just can't shake that old school picked up from the gp going through glass milk jugs full of pocket change with a pull-down kitchen light and a pos magnifying glass.

For some strange reason you are circling mostly either higher points on the coin more susceptible to damage or flat fields where your mind expects to see very smooth plain surfaces. Are those really protruding areas? Or are they remaining higher surfaces of the original coin with multiple scratches or gouges in those areas, which is what it appears to be for me and others. But you have the coin in hand, with photos not always telling the whole story, and they sometimes don't really show if certain things are cut inwards from say multiple scratches or gouges, or if they are outward protrusions and raised areas from say a die crack or defect. If you look at the areas with a scope or a 40x loupe, either with a built-in LED (my preference) or near a 100w light source, that should resolve the question. I think you are seeing things JP as it appears to just be a "2" at the end of a 2022 date, rotated and a little blurry. See the attached.

@Hoghead515 I just took a look at the Innovation $1 coins on the mint's website as I haven't really noticed these lately, and don't get many dollar coins with change or in rolls anymore. Many of those are actually really nice. Do you get the individual proof releases or proof sets?

According to the website page on grading NGC uses the Plus (+) and Star (+) designations as follows: So, the question remains. Other than providing yet another persons' opinion on grade, or for older NGC slab labels before the above designations were introduced, of what value is the CAC sticker?

MCM is Modern Coin Mart one of the larger online coin dealers, and OGP means "Original Government Packaging" as the coin comes from the US Mint - like the coin capsules, presentation boxes (however cheesy they have become) and COA (Certificate of Authenticity) for the proof medals we are discussing, such as the attached from the MCM listing. I have never been a fan of FD, FS, FDOI, etc. and other such arbitrary time-based grade modifiers, which I view as just a marketing gimmick that larger dealers pay the US Mint to be supplied the paperwork in order for certain coins to be eligible for such designations through the TPGs. What do they really mean? A better strike or appearance? I don't think so because the US Mint does not track or provide information about when during the life of a working die particular coins were struck. So, you can have a coin graded MS-64 FD FS FDOI ABC DEF and every other time-based modified under the sun struck near the end of the initial production or die, and it may in fact not be as well struck as a coin produced 6 months later right after a working die was changed. Bottom line is what the coin in hand looks like, not what a paper label with a bunch of arbitrary letters and an opinion says. So don't be too disappointed. I just realized we at discussing a PF Liberty from MCM at FMV w/ OGP and COA that may be CA EF EPF FD FS FDOI DFM (previously known as "a nicely struck proof medal that I got early in the year from the mint").

Yes, both pics are of the same coin, with the first pic taken with an LED light shining on the coin in an attempt to show the toning. As stated above I knew from the start that the coin had some wear and was cleaned at some point in the past (classic random cleaning scratches or scuffs, which are a little more apparent on the eagles' wings), which is partly why I got the coin for such a good price. So, I'm really not that worried about it having been cleaned, which many older raw coins have been as @ldhair mentioned, and why I am generally okay with older raw coins having been lightly cleaned which can straight grade. It's very hard to describe or show in pictures the amazing toning this coin has, but I hope it was in fact a natural re-toning after having been cleaned and that I can find other coins with similar toning. I always had more of a preference for a straight brighter silver appearance for similar older coins until I came across this one.

Actually, all kidding aside this was a serious question. I thought the CAC sticker was also to designate better grading characteristics within a particular grade (say MS-64), approaching but not at the next higher grade, similar to the NGC+. So, what would be the difference between say a coin with an NGC grade of MS-64*+ and a coin with an NGC grade MS-64 that had a CAC sticker on the slab (other than to verify the grade on the label)?

Welcome PennyGuy. I agree with JP, don't be so quick to judge. Sandon is a very experienced collector who has essentially donated his time to help me, and other collectors, tremendously with detailed answers to sometimes pretty involved questions or issues I have had as a newer collector, reviewed raw coins I was either interested in or where I had questions about grade, authenticity etc. and has provided advice on references and resources for people just starting out in this hobby, with quite a few of the latter lately and thus I think the reason for this post. Heck, I'm sure he would even be willing to help you out if you had questions about say, I don't know, pennies?

See the a Just as one example of the US Mint slipping, attached is a pic showing the OGP for two different 2021 Proof ASEs from the US Mint. The one on the left is the 2021-W Proof ASE Type-1 from earlier that year, with the really nice hefty velour snap-close displace case that the capsules have come in forever. On the right is the 2021-W Proof ASE Type-2 from later that year with the super cheap and cheesy imitation felt crazy glued to a thin crinkle plastic capsule holder stuffed in a misaligned thin cardboard half-box that looks more like a cheap dollar store display box instead of something that came from the US Mint. The two Proof ASEs this year also came in the cheap dollar store display boxes.

They are randomly there throughout from a close examination, particularly at the outer portion of the eagles' wing on the left side as well as some on the right side of the eagles' wing on the reverse which I see in the pics, but maybe I only notice it there since I had it in hand. They presented a little more in the listing pics, along with the wear, which is how I got the coin for a very low price. Ummm, yea I don't know about that 1840. But I can "dispose" of that one for you. I don't know about "hideous", but it's really not my style. I think it's from PCGS CoinFacts, so you will have to talk to them about disposal. I know it has been a little beat up with the cleaning and wear, but I do still like the look, so I decided to keep it. The appearance was similar to a few coins on CoinFacts and PhotoGrade, so I assumed it had just naturally re-toned after that from how it appeared in hand. Keep in mind I took the above pics shining an LED light on it in a darkened room to try and pick up the color kaleidoscope I was seeing when tilted under a light in hand, so that may be what you and Sandon are seeing. The attached are the first set of pics for the coin with regular lighting, but the toning really isn't very apparent like it is in hand or the orig pics. If you guys still think its AT, I will note that in my log just to be on the safe side. That really is a shame if the appearance of the coin is in fact from AT, and I have trouble finding others with a similar appearance as a result of that. It really jumped out at me, like the first time I really looked for and noticed cartwheeling on some better MS coins.

I don't have that many older half dollars, but do many of the older ones' tone like the one I have? I am going to keep my eyes open for more of those coins if they do. The ones I have come across from just casual looking are usually a darker brown/green or maybe mixed with bright splashed rainbow appearance, like the attached, which I don't find that appealing.

They have been mass mailing those letters to collectors because they have been getting hammered with complaints about poor quality and canceling the Morgan dollars for the entire year in favor of increasing higher margin coins and tokens. I have noticed the drop in quality and also not happy with the janitor's decision to cancel the Morgans.

I picked up the attached 1807 Capped Bust Half Dollar for not that much since it's a little beat up and worn, but when I got the coin I was really amazed at the toning the coin had, which didn't completely present from the listing pictures at all (intentionally?). Like a bright rainbow but mostly bluish color with some light greenish highlights that really pops when tilted under a light, similar to cartwheeling for some MS coins. At first, I thought something was wrong with maybe the coin not being legit because I have never seen that to such an extent but the dims, weight, appearance, etc. of the coin checks out including the die mark at the 5 in 50C (it's a "Large Stars 50/20" half). Maybe these coins get that type of toning from being about 11% copper, which I think is called "verdigris" when it tones like that? I don't think the attached pics really capture the toning completely, but it's one of my favorite coins now in the collection as far as a toned appearance goes.

Ah okay, yea at 3 it's still a little early to tell if he will end up a collector. I will say I have really good memories (back in the grey matter ... lol) of going through common coins with my grandfather who collected pocket change coins ... nothing special, except the memories of doing that with him. And then later with my mom who did some of that, but by that time I had "discovered" girls, so it was all over for coins.

They probably will not get that cause they are selling for a lot less, but you never know. There was a guy on eBay asking $2,000 for a Lincoln Dollar coin worth ... drum roll ... exactly $1.00. But people will apparently pay a premium right now for a lot of those catchy super special marketing labels and designations. They may not realize it's an issue until they go to sell the coins down the road when the novelty of that has worn off.

Those pesky 2009-P/D nickels popping up missing again! Sounds like you have a lot of fun going through coins/sets with the grandson. Future collector?

Even if its harshly cleaned and holds little value, it's still interesting as 1892 was the first year that commemorative coins such as that half dollar were issued in the US. Columbian Exposition Half Dollar | U.S. Mint [www.usmint.gov/coins/coin-medal-programs/commemorative-coins/columbian-exposition-half] But if you collect those types of coins, I would look for a better example. 1892 Columbian Commemorative Half Dollar NGC AU58 Toned #636182-016 | eBay