EagleRJO

@jimbo27Then that is a no go on identifying the fake PCSG slab as the 2 are simply different generation PCGC slabs. According to the OP in that thread, who had the slabs in hand and was very carefully comparing the two, the only diff between the fake and a legit PCSG holder of the same gen was a slight rounding of one of the coin holders' tongs, but I couldn't see it from the pics of that he posted in the thread. If I buy an expensive coin, I would look at that very carefully vs known legit coins for both grade (how that scam worked) and authenticity, regardless of having a piece of paper in a plastic holder.

@jimbo27Are you talking about there being only partial contact between the holder and the coin at several point around the perimeter for the fake, vs the legit one that looks like there is full contact around the perimeter of the legit one?

No, they call them various things like "fantasy coins" or "overstrike coins". The TPG calls them a "token" (see above) so I just follow thier lead with my slab labels.

Too funny JP. Dan Carr at MM does such nice work with those fantasy coins that they pop when you're holding them in your hand, and they are very sought after which can make knock offs profitable. The US Mint liked his work so much that they invited him to submit an official finalist design for the new Sacagawea dollar, and he actually designed the 2001 New York and 2001 Rhode Island state quarters for the US Mint. The pic of my slabbed one above or the attached ANACS graded one doesn't really do it justice ... see attached for a better example pic of how they really present in hand. ID it's not, no, and yes. Those are not TPG (Third Party Grader) certified and sealed slabs, just easy-open retail slabs I put my raw coins in for protection and storage. But they can go in a real authenticated/sealed/graded TPG slab by ANACS if you want to submit them as noted above, which looks like the attached. They use "Token" on the TPG labels, so I did too, but I don't think it really matters as long as you're not trying to pass it off a legal US tender.

I think bullion spot is down around $20/oz and the bullion coins ~$30 retail, less bulk wholesale. So that's a nice mark up for bulk dealer submissions who have special rates with the TPGs. P.S. If you want the Proof keep an eye on price, cause there's prolly an initial demand rush and they may be left with a bunch left over after the initial silver rush.

Careful, that looks like a bullion coin and not a proof coin, [just in case you wanted a proof].

Nice Morgan. You can go to VamWorld to really torture yourself if you're not looking for something specific.

I am doing the same and will just get them from dealers who bulk order them after a little time goes by so they are prolly cheaper than direct from the mint in the end. Just make sure you send them an email explaining exactly why you canceled.

I got some similar mumbo jumbo in a canned email reply after I vociferously complained about the US Mint entirely canceling the very popular Morgan Silver Dollar production for 2022, while they increased production for ASEs and some other silver medals that collectors usually don't care about as much but make them more money. Yea, I guess that bonehead decision probably made by a janitor they put in charge didn't go over too well from the looks of the lengthy form letter and form emails they are mass mailing and then scrambling to do appearance damage control. And all the "problems" really were only due to limited silver supply and "staffing shortages" (requiring the janitor to take over silver planchet ordering and production schedules) and "the global pandemic and supply chain issues", even though they increased higher margin coins and medals. Yea right, and I have a bridge to sell you. Don't get between me and my Morgans. Add to that the bonehead decision by the former janitor now as.s mint director (from staffing shortages) to eliminate those really nice and presentable velour spring loaded capsule display boxes starting this year (because the janitor, errrrr as.s mint director forgot to order them, and the US Mint doesn't have any money) and replace them with super cheap and cheesy imitation felt crazy glued to crinkle plastic stuffed in a not-display box thinner than cheap cardboard from the dollar store. What are they going to do next year, listen to the janitor again when he suggests ditching the capsules and cheesy glued felt dollar store boxes and just wrap the coins in paper towels, scotch tape it and stick a stamp on it. Burns my butt. The US mint used to have world class professionals top to bottom who were highly respected throughout the world, and with a quality hard to beat by anyone. So much for that.

RWB we will have to agree to disagree. Both Websters and Oxfords defines a "counterfeit" as an imitation or exact copy of something with the intent to trick or deceive people into believing it is the real thing. There is nothing to "imitate" or "copy" as that thing does not exist, and they are clearly intended as a novelty item or "fantasy coin", not something intended to deceive people that it is a legal tender coin struck at a US mint which so far there is no proof was ever done. Counterfeiting US currency is a crime, and the US mint agrees they are doing nothing wrong, and ANACS will in fact "Authenticate" these fantasy coins. Nevertheless, I kept the original certificate of authenticity from the mint and clearly display that on the obverse side of the holder in the very unlikely event I am pushing up daisies and 1964-D coins struck at the Denver mint are discovered. Now, there are in fact "counterfeit" 1964-D Morgan Dollars, but they are not struck at Moonlight Mint. Attached is an example of a "counterfeit" 1964-D Morgan Dollar. It is an imitation or "exact" copy of the Moonlight Mint fantasy coin that is intended to trick or deceive people into believing it is a real fantasy coin struck by the Moonlight Mint due to the popularity of those coins.

Yea, pic 3 sealed the deal for me too. And I so want to scoop the attached road rash coin from eBay to be a finalist in the $1 "BAD" category. Then again, it would get disqualified for not having been found it in a parking lot.

I think that's a good candidate for a finalist in the "Bad" Nickel category. Looks like we may have to select a 3-person panel of "Parking Lot Coin Experts" to judge these. I vote for Coinbuf to be one since he has the OG parking lot set, and CoinJockey73 since all he collects are parking lot coins [duck ... totally kidding].

@GoldFinger1969 It really is very interesting to me, and I found a good book on the history and minting of Morgans called "A Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars" by Bowers. He includes a discussion in one chapter as well as an entire Appendix related to the discovery of models, working hubs, and master dies for the mythical 1964 Morgan that apparently was never officially struck, as well as for the 1965 Peace Dollar (struck in 1965 at Denver but backdated 1964) that were produced but reportedly all melted. But there are still rumors of trial strikes for the 1964 Morgan coins, or 1964 Peace Dollars which may have been stashed before the melting (maybe by a mint director or employee). Discovering either coin would be quite a find, so I am keeping my eyes open. Btw, Bowers also mentions @RWB and quotes portions of his book on Peace Dollars and the consideration of using the Morgans' design as a basis for the new Peace Dollars' design, while discussing the possibilities surrounding a 1964 Morgan. The intrigue involving these coins is why I added a Moonlight Mint 1964-D Morgan Dollar and Moonlight Mint 1965-D Peace Dollar to my "Potty Dollar" collection, although RWB claims I added "counterfeits" to my collection. The 1903-O is likely going to end up being one of my favorite Morgans in the collection (unless I can actually afford a decent VF or XF 1893-S one day), and why I am spending a good amount of time and effort looking for a really nice one for the circulation set. I am actually seriously considering spending more than my budget for a nice BU grade 1903-O because of that.

Yea, that's what I would have thought too, with there being at least some indication of movement like that even if copper is a softer metal. But we are just looking at photos and I don't know if having the coin in your hand and looking at it with say a 40x led loupe might make a difference. Maybe @DWLange could shed some light on that for us.

Interesting that part of a coin. like the upper part of that letter "E", can get "pushed" down or moved like that.

I think you have either the "bad" or "ugly" parking lot dime winner so far. Well, I guess the idea isn't as original as I initially thought. But I wasn't on the board then, and I came up with the short set idea and super catchy set name of "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly". Now where is that pat yourself on the back emoji.

Very true. I was just curious if there may be any truth to a "rumor" I heard that certain govt officials can legit give away special coins from the mint as gifts. (And then maybe grab a few to toss in a safe deposit for themselves, which we all know would never happen ... 😆)

[Edit: The 1903-O was the king of Morgans, not the 1904-O, or other 1904's where there is reasonably good availability, but the coins just have a poor strike like the notoriously poor 1904(P).] It was the 1903-O as former king which was dethroned by the 1893-S and 1895 Proof when those bags were found. The issue with the 1904's was the poor strikes that year in general, particularly the 1904(P), making the higher MS grades a little scarce/expensive, but still not like say an 1893-S. I really didn't have much of an issue filling all the 1904 mint slots in AU/BU grades, except for the 1904-S which took a while and was a bit more than the others due to somewhat lower available numbers.

Yea, at one point the 1903-O was the most rare and expensive Morgan Dollar, outranking the 1893-S and 1895 Proof. Then BAM, a bunch of mint bags full of 1903-O Morgans are found. Can you imagine if you were the guy who recently purchased a super rare 1903-O for boatloads of cash, and then they find the bags. I think it's why those coins are still overpriced imo. Prices can be sticky on the downslide.

Thats strange cause the cert checks out. Maybe a glitch with the Registry and PCGS and NGC not playing nice always.

Yea, I think you need to "improve" on the dime in the set. Btw, I posted all small date or error pennies worth thousands ... you guys just haven't realized it yet.

Nice! Are those your actual finds? You def have some "ugly" winners. 😉

Thanks Sandon. I pulled out the ANA Guide and I agree according to that it does look like F-12. I am really surprised at the certified examples that were significantly more worn in general but still graded F-12. Is that perhaps market grading kicking in, maybe with a more recent leniency towards older weaker struck coins? JP I think it was listed close to $400 which is overpriced for a cleaned common date older half with a good amount of wear that I think would prolly be round $375 for a Fine or Fine+ that wasn't cleaned per RB and CW. I'll see what it goes for.

There seems to be a rash of people posting YT click-bait get-rich-quick "parking lot coins" as I think @Hoghead515 called it, which cracked me up. Is it always like that? Anyway, his humor got me thinking I would do a quick short set just for fun of coins I could find in parking lots with 3 of each 1C thru $1 coins with the best, the worst and something in between, kinda like a "low ball set", and call it "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly". I think the challenging ones are going to be finding half-dollars and dollars as they prolly get scooped immediately by ppl. Anyway, here is my first shot at the 1C coins from looking while I was out and about earlier today. [Okay, yea I may have too much free time on my hands, but I do enjoy the humorous side of things sometimes, and they are raw coins. ]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.