EagleRJO

Thanks for the advice, something I didn't think of doing just looking at what he had. But in my mind the original question remains ... is that indeed a fake Morgan?

Yes, I saw a recent thread about fake slabs too. Buyer beware for anything, which is why I am trying to learn as much as I can about coins I may be interested in. Yes, I am a newer collector who is more interested in collecting raw coins, except for the more expensive ones where I am definitely going slabbed (ahemm) to try and protect myself. Coin shows have been scarce around me lately, and some of the local coin shops within reasonable distance don't always seem to have a good supply of the less common ones, but I am keeping my eyes open. But even if from a more reputable dealer I am sure some of the really good fake coins slip through sometimes. I not interested in buying the eBay listed coin, and the ones I have been looking at are really just to see if I can gauge the grade and maybe pick up things that don't seem right for my edification, and post if I have questions to learn as much as I can about the coins I'm interested in obtaining. I agree the overall appearance is off, which is maybe what got me thinking about if it's a fake. I really appreciate the effort in getting to your VAM book to take a pic. That does look a lot closer to the listing coin, but still seems off to me with what still looks like a narrower gap inside the mint mark. It's also interesting that that pic looks a little different to me vs the one from the online VAM site for a VAM 3 posted above.

Thanks guys, that is the VAM reference I had as posted. I find it much more interesting to collect the raw coins, which are usually less expensive too. Yes, I know buying raw coins involves risk, and typically would stick to raw coins from one of the larger dealers, particularly for the more common coins. For more costly coins I am definitely going slabbed to protect myself. Sometimes the dealers are out of the grade I'm interested in for some less common coins, like the 1903-O in XF, or like in this case I am keeping my eye on going prices and something seemed off with the coin or grade, so I post those.

Thanks @Sandon for your comments in the other thread ... I apologize because I moved this to a new thread so it wouldn't get buried. Attached is an example graded VAM 3 as well as a comparison of the listing (top) vs a VAM 3 (bot) from 1903-O VAM-3 - VAMWorld. The "O" in dollar and in particular the mint mark still look off from the VAM 3. Also, is that site where you go to look at the VAMS?

I thought I would start another thread for this coin, instead of maybe it getting buried in some of my pervious threads about Morgans. Here is another 1903-O Morgan claimed to be MS that is rubbing me the wrong way. When compared the obv just seems off, like with the eye, and in particular the O mint mark as well as the "O" in dollar on the reverse when compared to the PCGS examples on CoinFacts. Attached is the coin and the comparison of the mint mark and "O" in dollar (listing on top and PCGS below). Another fake?

Gotta love those get rich quick click bait YT vids. One of the reasons I don't bother with YT.

I think they are just pointing out that examples/comparisons of small vs large date coins, like the attached which maybe you can keep for future reference, have already been provided multiple times, which can understandably get frustrating to some when the same question is asked without referring back to previous responses that people took the time to respond to. Don't take it personally, because it's likely not. Just my two (Indian Head) nickels.

There are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable collectors and people from the industry who regularly post and answer questions on this board, so you have probably come to the right place. Congrats on the purchase of your coin.

That does seem to be the case with the recent price bubble/spike.

Your right, well kinda. My $350 number was wrong, so it is a $250 (or 14%) increase, but not 10% like you were saying. In any event we agree it was an unusual price spike which I think has since come back to reality. I'm just waiting for the downside of that price spike.

I watch gold spot prices and it was a lot more than 10%. Spot was about $1,800/oz to start out the year and went up to $2,050/oz $2,150 in early March, [which is a $250/oz or ~14% increase], before coming back down. I saw about a 25% or so increase in the double eagles, maybe somewhat related to that, and there was generally a 15% to 20% increase in other more expensive coins, even with one's not so much related to spot prices. Bubble, spike, etc. whatever you want to label it that is a rapid and unusual rise in the price of coins pretty much across the board for more expensive US coins. I''m seeing some signs of those prices coming back down to reality. I got the impression you had already purchased the coin.

Thanks Sandon, I was really just kidding to close out the thread. I will not be tracking the sale price for obvious reasons, but the feedback is appreciated none the less.

I do disagree, at least for the more costly coins I have been researching and tracking including gold double eagles, gold half eagles, mid to late 1800's half dollars, older dollar coins, trade dollars and less common date Morgans. There has been a very definitive price spike, in the order of 15% up to 25% for some, starting around the end of 2021 to early 2022 which is just recently starting to come back to reality. More so for coins like the common date gold double eagles with the signicant spot price spike earlier this year which has since come back down to reality, like we were discussing in another thread where price spikes tent to not come down as quickly as they may go up. Those increases just are not a normal increase in coin values, again only for the more costly ones I have been researching.

True I won't solve the issue of there being a hole in your set, but don't they have a money guarantee, like refund of the purchase price with a receipt if they made a mistake?

Btw, what grade do you guys think that fake is?

I would still contact whoever certified that coin, no matter how long ago it was as things do happen where you sometimes much later realize there may have been a mistake. Prolly worth the time of sending the TPG an email with good pics, and maybe sending it in. But that's just my thoughts and 2 (Indian Head) nickels.

True, except I don't consider cash an investment, when in fact that's a loser considering inflation even though it's generally recommended to have 3 months' worth of expenses in cash on hand.

I hear you Lem, I have had a mixed experience with raw coins, and even some slabbed ones, from eBay with some of both types ending up being returned. Its why I look for reputable sellers with an unconditional 7-day/30-day return policy so I can actually get the coin/slab in hand and simply return it if not what was expected. Ouch, I would be pretty upset by that. Just curious, did you get your money back? And don't the TPGs have a guarantee on their labels?

Keep in mind that little factoids like the coin is dated the year Lincoln was elected may be interesting to you, but are likely not a factor at all to someone who may be interested in buying it at a later time. Also, coins are typically not a good "investment" compaired to returns of other traditional investment types historically, and atm it looks like we are in a high price bubble for coins, so i am avoiding buying any of the more expensive coins I may be interested in for now.

@Lem EI think I recently saw a raw 1939-S Rev 40 5C claimed to be Unc or BU I think on eBay if you are even considering eBay which can be dicey for raws. Maybe they have an unconditional return policy and you can check it out and return if not what you expected. Edit: I found the listing I recall seeing. I know nothing about these coins, but many of the steps don't appear to be very clear ... bad photo? Who knows. https://www.ebay.com/itm/155050528406?hash=item2419bb4e96:g:aU4AAOSwompiq2qp

Gotta like that comment. 😉

Thanks, I do see that now with the numbers and gap on the rev. I was just looking at the grade to follow the price and didn't look that close at the other things. Here is the example AU50 from CoinFacts which I really need to get in the habit of always checking even if I am just looking at the grade to track a sale price.

Yea, it does have an off color. But maybe an AU Details?

Okay, here is my next grading example to get feedback on. It's listed as an XF+, which I agree with, but it may be bordering on an AU. I see almost no wear of the high points at the hair or cotton leaves on the obv, or the eagle's head or breast feathers on the rev. What do you guys think?

Here is a link to the NGC price guide as well as the PCGS price guide, with referenced auction prices. Liberty Head $20 (1850-1907) | Coin Auction Prices | NGC (ngccoin.com) Liberty Head $20 (1849-1907) Values - PCGS Price Guide I have noticed NGC doesn't seem to keep their prices as up to date as much with recent auction prices (e.g. I think for that coin the latest auction price was like in 2018/2019 or something). That really is a shame.