EagleRJO

Found this gem looking for some $20 Saints: Mega Shop - Gold & Silver Bullion (buygoldsilverbullion.org) Lets see now ... a dot.org site, selling gold coins and bullion bars well below spot, like 1 oz gold bars for $1.554 ($171 below spot) and a $20 Saint NGC MS-64 graded for $1,598 ($127 below spot), corporate headquarters and contact center in the USA +47 900 99 000 phone number that links to both a place in Norway and Kazakhstan, support staff available from 8:00 am to 6:00 pm Monday through Friday central standard time at an overseas number, all stock images of coins and bars taken directly from the APMEX website ( I recognized several), etc. I mean there is nothing unusual there, what's not to like ... I just hope that not many people fall for that scam website.

I'm running into this a lot. Even if the hammer price is the min bid at $2,000 that's $2,200 total with a 10% buyers' fee. I'll keep looking until RWB hooks us up with the secret to buying all those Saints dirt cheap.

Okay, thanks. Then that must have been the auctioneer they were hosting with the 15% BP. I just saw one at iCollector for a 12.5% BP, which is around GC at a 15% BP that they typ. drop to a 10% BP if you pay with an eCheck. Yea that was a BU (not Gem Unc.) which would realistically grade out between MS-60 and MS-65, with the typ. being MS-62 to MS-63. Even though they say anywhere between MS-60 to MS-70 I'm sure they have picked through the Unc. ones they get to grab Gem Unc. winners to get graded that are more likely to come back as high MS close to MS-68 to MS-70 for them to sell at a higher profit. The only reason I was considering that one was the unique PCGS label which I thought looked really nice and might increase the value somewhat. I think hammer bids that stick at a little above spot at say $1,750 ($1,725 + $25) is going to be a no-go cause that would be a hammer bid of about $1,520 at a 15% BP and then only about $1,450 to the seller with the typ. 5% min sellers fee those guys also charge. Who bought a $20 Saint for under $1,450 unless it was back pre 2018 and doesn't want to hold it till prices go back up if they have held it for that long? Probably not many. So that's why I was thinking around $1,800 to $1,900 total, which would be about $1,640 to $1,730 at GC with the 10% BP.

One of the coins I am looking for is a $20 Saint, and I already priced a few out with some of the larger dealers which is where I saw that special $20 Saint with a "Prospector Label" I posted for ~$2,000 which isn't bad since I liked the label, but still a little pricy imo. I don't mind waiting for a bit or sticking with GC since they have more reasonable buyers' fees which brings up my actual hammer bid prices a bit, and was mostly curious if there were others out there like GC to increase my options. Or in particular, ones that handle raw coins which the bigger auction houses don't seem to handle. So far, it's only eBay on raw coins which is really a no-go. Thanks, I saw iCollector and might give them a shot because I think they are at like a 15% buyers' premium that may not constantly put me under on hammer bids (say $1,650 hammer bid would be $1,900 total for that Saint I was looking into). GC does have a 15% buyers' premium, but most of the ones I am interested in are dropped down to 10% which I don't think is that bad. Do you know if iCollector waives the buyers' fees on offered set prices like GC?

I don't agree it's the same or worse. It doesn't apply to every person, only people where there is reasonable suspicion or evidence of illegal drug trafficking, and unlike the FDR steal it can be challenged. Just illegal fentanyl trafficking alone kills 100k Americans every year. So, it allows law enforcement to hit um where it hurts right off the bat, in the wallet, before they can burry everything after being arrested or realizing someone is on to them which was a problem. But that is a debate for another place and time. Now, who can help me find these $1,900 Saints? Maybe @RWB can help? I mean it looks like we have one of the foremost experts on Saints in our mists.

Nice coin, even if it is contemporary! Maybe you could send that one in to be TPG authenticated ... . I know ANACS will certify the Dan Carr Tokens, including the Morgans, so maybe they do Potty Dollars also (they probably will "certify" anything ). Funny thing about the Dan Carr 1964 Morgan is that apparently they actually found the hubs, dies and models for that coin to be struck by the US Mint, but there are no records of any actually being struck. Now, for the 1964 Peace Dollar they also found the hubs and dies, but unlike the Morgans they actually did strike some of those coins in early 1965 with a 1964 date, and reportedly all of them were melted down. Some collectors are actually on the hunt for an authentic 1964 Morgan or Peace dollar. So, the next one on my list of goof coins is the Dan Carr replica Peace dollar.

I don't think there is any way that something like the "Great Government Gold Heist of 1933" would fly today. And about the bullion, attached is the actual executive order No. 6102. It looks like Section 2 required all coins and bullion to be turned in, with the only exemption for individuals contained in Section 2(b) which allowed people to keep "gold coin and gold certificates" not to exceed $100 in total for each person, as well as "gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins", with no bullion exemption for individuals. The other exemptions 2(a), 2(c) and 2(d) which do include gold bullion were only for business and industry (e.g. jewelers, dentists, dealers, banks, etc.). I would have had all my gold coins immediately graded. Wish I could find a Saint in good condition for $20 ... I would settle for $1,900.

There are modern versions or adaptations of the "Potty Dollar" which I think are still pretty funny, and probably would order one if not that much. I do have a Dan Carr 1964-D Morgan Silver Dollar ("Token"), which I think is pretty funny to show people, so one of those would probably fit right in. I understand there are people who fanatically collect things like the Dan Carr and Potty Dollar tokens.

Thanks, I do use the PCGS Photograde for trying to figure out the grade, as well as the coin specific descriptions in the RB. Also, I do use the PCGS and NGC values but find my 2023 RB not that far off (maybe a little under sometimes), and I usually have it out anyway if trying to grade a coin. About the grade I did roughly come up with AU from the RB description, and then went to Photograde to find an AU and saw the attached for an AU-50. Actually, seemed like a little less wear of the OPs coin on the head and some of the feathers, but downgrading to an XF for being cleaned with not as nice of an appearance or luster would make sense. Coin World looks like a great online reference, and I am looking mostly at raw coins so that could be a really nice golden nugget to put in the toolbox. Much appreciated.

Thanks, looks like there are a lot more local auctions than I thought. I will definitely check out some of them.

Thats what I have been doing, but it's going nowhere with the reserves people are typically setting for the coins I have been looking at and ppl bidding book value, maybe noobs not realizing they will get hit with another 20% on top ... smh

You can also grade and slab the raw coins yourself and keep them together as an option. Thats what I am doing with the common ASEs, Morgans, Eagles, etc. that I am collecting, and only plan on getting TPG slabbed ones if they are expensive just to protect myself. And when I grade/slab them myself I use the slabs that are somewhat similar to the PCGS ones but are easy-open with a dime so I can easily take the coins out of the slabs to look at and hold in my hand, and then pop them back in just for storage/protection.

Agreed, and hands down why I prefer raw coins for most of what I am collecting except for really expensive ones.

I thought many of the Trade Dollars used were counter-stamped with chop marks by the various traders in Asia, so it's kind of expected for those, particularly circulated ones. I think it's kind of cool to see them counter-stamped with chop marks, but that's just me. @SandonRB at $300 to $350 if legit XF-40 to AU-50 and not Details only graded. Just curious if you were thinking XF because the scratches and scuff marks are probably on the coin and not the capsule? To me as a noob with these coins it doesn't seem like there is a lot of general wear. The rims, inscriptions (except maybe a bit on the pedestal banner and "E" there) and Liberty's dress, knees, breast and hair on the obv as well as the eagles head, leg feathers and wing tips on the rev all appear sharp and clear as noted in the Red Book. Unless you are seeing something I'm missing. I was just curious if you thought it was worthy because it seems like a legit 1875-S that doesn't seem to have a lot of wear, even though there were a lot struck that year vs other years and it looks like it was cleaned. Maybe because you want to know for your collection that its legit, and not that you want to sell it because it may not be worth much?

For a common coin that's price gouging, and they don't even waive the buyers fee for offers like GC does. I will not be visiting their site any time soon to buy coins. So, it can't just be GC that seems reasonable. Any other suggestions, particularly for raw coins which GC doesn't seem to carry?

Looks like there are a bunch of lower MS Saints at HA which didn't sell because the reserve set was well over $2,000, plus the 20% buyers fee puts it over $2,400 for just an average one. Plus, HA doesn't waive the 20% buyers fee on offers or buy-it-now like GC does, even though for that they still get the sellers fee both HA and GC charge (typically like 5% to 10% on top of the buyers' fee). So, unless it's a super rare item not available through GC I will pass on using HA.

Rounding off to just an ounce would make sense, so buying a little over spot around $1,800 for a Saint would work. But I think an issue I'm finding is that a lot of people probably didn't wait for relative lows in the spot price to buy them, like I did with bullion. So, maybe a more realistic range would be around $1,900 to $2,000 for those Saints.

I still can't believe that the US Government did that to people in 1933, mandating everyone turn in their gold bars at a fixed price of $20.67/oz, and then after they had "confiscated" everyone's gold at a low price they raised the fixed price to $35/oz which benefited them. Really?

I have been looking for certain coins through online auctions with Great Collections (GC), Heritage Auctions (HA) and eBay but have not had much luck yet. Particularly with raw coins, which I haven't even seen on GC and HA, and it's pretty much overpriced poor grade or cleaned garbage for raw coins on eBay. For slabbed coins eBay or GC (at a typ. 10% buyer premium) are an option. But I just realized that HA charges a 20% buyer premium on most of the coins. Thats adding $400 to a $2,000 coin for say some early year double eagles I am interested in buying. So, HA is a no-go as overpriced imo. Any other decent places to find coins to bid on or where you can make offers even if it's to be bid. Particularly raw coins which I prefer, for other than really expensive coins which I do plan to get slabbed. Like maybe iCollector.com, but it looks like they are at a 15% premium, and I haven't heard them mentioned on the forum. Any recommendations or suggestions to check out, particularly for raw coins, would be appreciated.

Just curios why you would think it's "worthy" of being graded with all that damage and scratches probably from cleaning?

I usually don't like slab coffins, even though it's needed sometimes, but this one for a Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle seems cool. Also, for earlier double eagles does it matter if it's with or without a moto?

If it's $20 to $30 over spot, that works. A pair of tin snips will get that shiny baby out of the plastic slab coffin in no time flat. Still having trouble finding deals like that. LCS are pricy here in NY due to COL, and no coin shows in sight. If you guys see any of those Saints close to spot, a heads up would be much appreciated.

Two separate and distinct things I think you have to go through one of the brokerage firms like TD Ameritrade to buy futures/options, but I'm not completely sure. Doesn't make it any less risky. And yea, there are some shady characters selling bullion, and the Chinese are getting super good at imitations of everything. There are a select few dealers I "trust" to buy gold bullion from, and I only buy it if it has an assay. In the words of one of my favorite presidents "Trust but verify".

I just realized that Heritage Auctions tacks on a 20% buyer's premium on all auction sales. Wow, I will pass and stick with GC which is typically 10%. Anyway, now back to the coins I am looking into. I have been thinking about my plan to wait on getting 1 of 2 of the $5 half eagles till they come down in price, and after that look into maybe adding 1 or 2 of the $20 double eagles. I might actually switch up my plan and scoop 1 or 2 Saints now, since the price of those seems to be more related to gold spot, which I think is low now, and then wait on adding 1 or 2 of the $5 half eagles since they seem to be priced more so based on demand, which seems high now, than on spot prices. Where do I find these MS graded Saints for bullion price or close to it for some of the more common year/mints? That would be around $1,670 to $1,700 [0.9675 oz x $1,725 current spot = $1,669], or only slightly above that as you noted. The MS graded Saints I am seeing now are in the $2,100 to $2,200 range, or more, both thru dealers and auctions that I can see on GC. Some help there would be much appreciated.