GoldFinger1969

BTW, for those of you who have the coin or the booklet: the booklet that came with the 2009 UHR has a very good sequence of how the coin looks under different tonnage strikes. The coin looks deformed when the pressure is too low and then everything is clear and raised and sharp when it meets the minimum threshold.

If this is true -- and I have no reason to doubt David Bowers, his passion and integrity seem unparalleled -- for a while, even up to the early-1960's, the trade bags of Double Eagles and other U.S. gold coins were still there in bulk. You could apparently buy thousands, even tens of thousands, no problem. I wonder if there wasn't interest because most of them were commons/generic years/worn....they may have only wanted the more scarce and rare. Q. David Bowers, COINWORLD November 2015: “In 1961, Europe was a fertile hunting ground for American coin dealers. In London there were many American Colonial and early federal coins to be had from the three leading dealers — Spink, Seaby and Baldwin. In Switzerland, banks had gold coins, mainly double eagles, that had been in storage for decades. There was no difference in price between an EF coin and one that was lustrous Mint State, all were the Swiss equivalent of, say, $40.25. I asked how many I could buy at the ask price, and the officer said that right now he could confirm an order for 100,000 coins, but for a larger quantity he would have to leave the room to check!”

Less detail but shiny mirror appearance, right ? But today...with everything digital...with tolerance levels down to angstroms.....no compromise right ?

So the proof dies were used on presses with higher tonnage pressure, correct ? How often would the proof dies have to be changed ? I know from Saint/Morgan strikes that the regular coin dies could go for tens of thousands.....are we talking dozens, hundreds, or a few thousand tops with proofs ?

That's the good thing about what you did and also what I have with my preference for Saints (and moderatly-priced Morgans).....I can't buy too many of them so the space they take up is not that bad. I have friends with THOUSANDS of coins and it's a haul to display maybe 10% of them. With me, I can show everything in 10 minutes.....I have maybe a few dozen coins, the rest are bullion or quasi-bullion.

This is why courts are overjammed. Any sensible judge should throw the case out immediately and assign court costs to the plantiff. If not, maybe I can sue McDonalds for my high cholesterol. Or Coca-Cola. Or 3 Musketeers bar and Mars.... Or that steak company !

Larry David said NOT TO invest in Crypto.

For what ? For liking the product ? We're talking fraud. I hope the judge assigns court costs to the plaintiffs for frivilous lawsuit.

An advertisement is not a legally binding affirmation that you won't lose money. If I see a baseball commercial, decide to play, and then get hurt -- do I sue the sporting goods company ? These people have a cause of action against SBF, who many now don't want to sue or criticize because that's the guy they trusted. People want to blame everybody else for their financial mistakes except the #1 person responsible: themselves.

Got a link, can't find it.

I don't understand how some people can be that financially irresponsible. In an age where prudent investing options are 24/7, to get taken in by crypto and to have your entire life savings in a super-risky asset is insane. These people always seem to end up with hucksters and frauds, never with people like myself who were honest and knew what we were doing. I got the small fish, the big ones went to the scamsters who ripped them off. The celebrities didn't back anything. They made a terrible decision and they want someone else to pay for it. The celebrities never said there was no risk, FDIC insurance, etc. The custodial risk is key. But fraud has nothing to do with endorsers. That is on Sam Bankman-Fried, who seems to be getting a pass from the media elite. I'm sure it has nothing to do with his 2 Stanford Law professor parents or the political donations he made.

3 MCMVII's @ GC...a flat edge MS-65 not getting bids at $42,000 and a wire edge MS-63 where it is at just over $1,000. I think it's going higher..... A Details coin is at $3,000. I think all end later in the month after Christmas.

Thanks, I'll comment on them later over in the Saint-Gaudens Price Thread.

Yes, I remember it. I thought that was interesting as there wasn't really that much in gold coins to turn in or collect. Or maybe some people had some -- upper classes -- and just didn't turn it in. The thing is, gold coins I could see being saved -- gold certificates, less so. You figure a GC is going to be spent because it's paper whereas a gold coin is the actual gold that you want that is represented by a piece of paper. Same thing with holding gold coins and bullion instead of a gold ETF today.

Most of the gold coins appear to be from banks in France, Switzerland, and Austria.

Interesting....just curious, I am fascinated by the circulation of coinage from the U.S. to European citizens and banks which resulted in the hoards of many coins we have today (mostly Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles, Indian Heads, etc.). In your dissertation on Denmark and Danish coins, any stuff pop up about the preference or usage of U.S. Double Eagles or other coins ?

I never thought of that....if someone DID want gold, you couldn't cut a 400 oz. bar !! Did you ever come across any numbers which indicated how much in Gold Certificates were exchanged for actual gold coin in any year ? And I wonder if it increased during a year like 1907, with the Knickerbocker Trust panic.

I'm not sure which one(s) I have....I'll have to check...a few are raw, a few are graded. Why would it be so tough to make PF70's/MS70's in the bullion version ?

Some designs are different and have wider dispersion....the 5-ounce ATB and other silver coins are tough to get in a 70 because the large fields show every glitch.

Very interesting...how did you get into the Kroner's ? Many of us like to collect a modern or two from various countries and of various designs (i.e., proof and/or reverse proofs) which is a fun/different way to collect gold every now and then (obviously, gold is alot more than silver for most of us ).

There is so much useful information in RWB's Saints DE book that it includes the footnotes and bibliography. For me, I went back over the book and just scanned for relevant sentences or paragraphs on hoards, coinage, gold flows, etc. I cut-and-pasted them into my Word Doc that keeps all this useless trivia but figured it might be of interest to any of you still with us as we approach 75 pages on this thread. Here's 1 tidbit I found very interesting: "If one estimates that $1 million in coin left the country per week from October through December 1931, followed by $5 million per week through the first week of February, 1932, the total export to France, Switzerland, Belgium and other countries would have been $37 million. Considered as ordinary international business, this would have been a small sum; however, as coins intended specifically for hoards it was a considerable amount. When gold coins were later repatriated to the United States it is possible that many of these came from personal hoards, rather than normal trade payments as commonly assumed." These gold flows were partly a result of Europe being deeper into recession/depression and by 1931 all of them off the gold standard while the U.S. remained until 1933. But Roger's analysis flies with what we know: there weren't many bags of gold coins found in Europe (occasionally, yes, as Bowers tells us and I will print later on) but mostly gold coins from SDBs or individuals. A few here...a few dozen here...maybe a big stash at 1 bank which consolidated dozens or hundreds of SDBs.....etc. Guys like Paul Wittlin made a living just making contacts at various European banks that held these coins.

I cracked up at this....really fell into it.....good one, Zad !!

Are there any books on Roosters ? Year-by-year stuff....like Roger did with DEs here or Akers and Bowers did in smaller treatises.

I'm surprised there weren't more Roosters struck as the U.S. coins (including DEs) were very popular with the French. This would include striking 100 Franc coins, closer to 1 ounce. But anything, really. Huge incentive to strike their own coins with U.S. coins going for double the spot price of gold.