GoldFinger1969

Wow, that's alot of survivors...I guess mintage was even higher. Any idea how many 100 Franc Roosters, which would be close to our 1 ounce coins ?

It wasn't just the 1933 that was highly sought in the 1930's. The 1931 and 1932 were also wanted. I have actual price transactions and some auction catalog ask/realized prices -- might take me a bit to find and compile but I will post it here when found -- for part of the Fab Five and 1933 Saint. This would be the 1931, 1932, and the 1933 (I guess the 1931-D they didn't care about since it was a mint mark). Year & Mintages: 1929 1,779,750 1930-S 74,000 1931 2,938,250 1931-D 106,500 1932 1,101,750 1933 445,500 Saints from 1931 and 1932 started showing up in 1936. Before that, they were hard to find. Like the 1933 Indian Head, because they were officially offered for release by the Coiner, none could be claimed to be an "illegal" coin to own. In May 1936, 102 1931's and 175 1932's started to show up in New York City and Philadelphia. They were considered super-scare before then with coin catalogs from 1936 showing $75/coin. According to collector James Macallister none of these coins were in circulation among collectors for several years prior to May 1936, when Israel Switt began to distribute them. It's very possible that Switt and all the collectors/dealers from the 1930's did NOT know that in fact the 1933 was NOT circulating outside of the coins that escaped the Philly Mint. Those who said it was super-scarce or tought to find or expensive to own...may have been going from hearsay, rumour, and chit-chat with other dealers and collectors. The 1931 and 1932 were believed just as rare but those WERE seen and owned and held by actual people so nobody had any reason to doubt they were out there. The 1933 was in the same class -- nobody had actually seen one/them until 1936 but everyone just assumed others had seen them and/or had a few. So....the 1931, 1932, and 1933 were in a group all together instead of the 1931 & 1932 with the 1933 off in its own rarified air. To collectors and dealers, the 1933 wasn't considered THE coin to own or the rarest by itself, just one of a bunch of tough ones to get with infrequent sales.

QA, did you post here how many TOTAL survivors of all Roosters are out there to compare to the Saints 3.7 MM ? Even if your figure includes different size coins, it would be of use.

The progression strike examples for the UHR were: 15 to 55 metric tons, 5 pics in increments of 10 tons. The obverse looked really bad at 15 and 25 tons; at 35 it was much tougher to see. For the reverse, you saw a really fat rim even at 45 tons and needed 55 to clear-it-up.

Since we are talking about 1908 Wells Fargo No-Motto Saints...does anybody have one in a high grade ?

It seems the lack of return address caused the problem, but putting it out there could be an indication of what is inside. You need a phony return address name if you are into gold or jewelry....like.....JOE'S DISCOUNT GROCERY COUPONS

Is that true ? Why were they seized ? How did they know what was in the package ? How long ago ?

BTW, for those of you who have the coin or the booklet: the booklet that came with the 2009 UHR has a very good sequence of how the coin looks under different tonnage strikes. The coin looks deformed when the pressure is too low and then everything is clear and raised and sharp when it meets the minimum threshold.

If this is true -- and I have no reason to doubt David Bowers, his passion and integrity seem unparalleled -- for a while, even up to the early-1960's, the trade bags of Double Eagles and other U.S. gold coins were still there in bulk. You could apparently buy thousands, even tens of thousands, no problem. I wonder if there wasn't interest because most of them were commons/generic years/worn....they may have only wanted the more scarce and rare. Q. David Bowers, COINWORLD November 2015: “In 1961, Europe was a fertile hunting ground for American coin dealers. In London there were many American Colonial and early federal coins to be had from the three leading dealers — Spink, Seaby and Baldwin. In Switzerland, banks had gold coins, mainly double eagles, that had been in storage for decades. There was no difference in price between an EF coin and one that was lustrous Mint State, all were the Swiss equivalent of, say, $40.25. I asked how many I could buy at the ask price, and the officer said that right now he could confirm an order for 100,000 coins, but for a larger quantity he would have to leave the room to check!”

Less detail but shiny mirror appearance, right ? But today...with everything digital...with tolerance levels down to angstroms.....no compromise right ?

So the proof dies were used on presses with higher tonnage pressure, correct ? How often would the proof dies have to be changed ? I know from Saint/Morgan strikes that the regular coin dies could go for tens of thousands.....are we talking dozens, hundreds, or a few thousand tops with proofs ?

That's the good thing about what you did and also what I have with my preference for Saints (and moderatly-priced Morgans).....I can't buy too many of them so the space they take up is not that bad. I have friends with THOUSANDS of coins and it's a haul to display maybe 10% of them. With me, I can show everything in 10 minutes.....I have maybe a few dozen coins, the rest are bullion or quasi-bullion.

This is why courts are overjammed. Any sensible judge should throw the case out immediately and assign court costs to the plantiff. If not, maybe I can sue McDonalds for my high cholesterol. Or Coca-Cola. Or 3 Musketeers bar and Mars.... Or that steak company !

Larry David said NOT TO invest in Crypto.

For what ? For liking the product ? We're talking fraud. I hope the judge assigns court costs to the plaintiffs for frivilous lawsuit.

An advertisement is not a legally binding affirmation that you won't lose money. If I see a baseball commercial, decide to play, and then get hurt -- do I sue the sporting goods company ? These people have a cause of action against SBF, who many now don't want to sue or criticize because that's the guy they trusted. People want to blame everybody else for their financial mistakes except the #1 person responsible: themselves.

Got a link, can't find it.

I don't understand how some people can be that financially irresponsible. In an age where prudent investing options are 24/7, to get taken in by crypto and to have your entire life savings in a super-risky asset is insane. These people always seem to end up with hucksters and frauds, never with people like myself who were honest and knew what we were doing. I got the small fish, the big ones went to the scamsters who ripped them off. The celebrities didn't back anything. They made a terrible decision and they want someone else to pay for it. The celebrities never said there was no risk, FDIC insurance, etc. The custodial risk is key. But fraud has nothing to do with endorsers. That is on Sam Bankman-Fried, who seems to be getting a pass from the media elite. I'm sure it has nothing to do with his 2 Stanford Law professor parents or the political donations he made.

3 MCMVII's @ GC...a flat edge MS-65 not getting bids at $42,000 and a wire edge MS-63 where it is at just over $1,000. I think it's going higher..... A Details coin is at $3,000. I think all end later in the month after Christmas.

Thanks, I'll comment on them later over in the Saint-Gaudens Price Thread.

Yes, I remember it. I thought that was interesting as there wasn't really that much in gold coins to turn in or collect. Or maybe some people had some -- upper classes -- and just didn't turn it in. The thing is, gold coins I could see being saved -- gold certificates, less so. You figure a GC is going to be spent because it's paper whereas a gold coin is the actual gold that you want that is represented by a piece of paper. Same thing with holding gold coins and bullion instead of a gold ETF today.

Most of the gold coins appear to be from banks in France, Switzerland, and Austria.

Interesting....just curious, I am fascinated by the circulation of coinage from the U.S. to European citizens and banks which resulted in the hoards of many coins we have today (mostly Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles, Indian Heads, etc.). In your dissertation on Denmark and Danish coins, any stuff pop up about the preference or usage of U.S. Double Eagles or other coins ?

I never thought of that....if someone DID want gold, you couldn't cut a 400 oz. bar !! Did you ever come across any numbers which indicated how much in Gold Certificates were exchanged for actual gold coin in any year ? And I wonder if it increased during a year like 1907, with the Knickerbocker Trust panic.