GoldFinger1969

Really great post, Sandon, learned alot. You know, when you see a super-informative post in a thread like that... I wish we could "star" it or something and then have all the special posts appear in an Information Thread or be linked from somewhere on the website. Unless someone personally saves a thread via PDFs or cuts-and-pastes key information/posts into Word (like I actually do with Saints).....the information is lost. Not only does it probably have to be re-typed by someone at a future date, but others who might want that information have to request it. Imagine if we had a Super Thread with key information on various coins, striking issues, counterfeits, etc. Maybe we can discuss if this is feasible with the NGC Mods. In the meantime, I'll keep saving via PDF and Word.

I think the Mint creates these bogus "finishes" whenever they need to give a boost to sales. I mean, if they used them going forward it's one thing....they introduce them...say they're being "tested"...then we never see them again for the most part. Mint Official #1: "Hey, sales suck....time to introduce another of our 'special finishes' on the coins and tell them they better hurry before they are all gone, you know, like McDonald's McRib." Mint Official #2: "Best thing is to look at the clowns on the coin forums arguing about these finishes in a few years !!"

The coins in the article you cited that ARE proofs....yes. But I think readers of this thread may think you were referring to regular business strike Morgans that just are PL or DMPL. Those are NOT proofs. The gold coins in your article, yeah, I guess those are. Not an expert but Jeff Garrett is credible on gold.

Right, but those coins were STRUCK as proofs not some changed striking process that enhanced their finish (maybe) and were then CALLED proofs. BTW, how did you get the paragraph to highlight in purple ? Made it easy to find what you were quoting !

No, they are designated PL or DMPL but should NEVER be called proof unless they were recipients of polished dies and/or a special striking process. As an example, you have a big debate on whether or not some of the MCMVII High Relief Saints are "proofs." NGC said (not SAYS) YES, PCGS has consistently said NO. Note I said "said"..... as NGC no longer (apparently) uses the designation but the ones in the past maintain the Proof designation and can be marketed as such. The pros and cons are discussed in Roger's Double Eagles book. Despite being on the no-proofs side, he gave equal time to the other side. Kudos !

A dealer told me "SP" stood for Special Proof !!!

1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Timeline, if anbody is interested: March 2nd, 1933: 1st 1933 Saint-Gaudens DEs are struck. The official Mint records and most previous sources do NOT cite March 2nd as the date of first striking, but March 15th. Roger Burdette uncovered this discrepancy from a letter dated 1945. March 4th: FDR sworn in as president March 5th: Last official gold shipment to Federal Reserve banks leaves the Mint March 6th: Treasury Secretary Woodin (a coin collector) orders Mint Director Robert J. Grant to not "pay out" any more gold. Grant complies, with an addendum: ".....this does not prohibit the deposit of gold and the usual payment thereof." March 7th: A wire is sent from an Asst Attorney General stating that Mint personnel could continue exchanging gold coins for gold coins. March 15th: A letter is sent by Acting Director Mary M. O'Reilly (Mint Director Robert J. Grant was on leave) informing Lewis Froman of Buffalo, NY that he could deposit gold bullion directly at the Mint in exchange for gold coin because it "....neither increases nor depletes the stock of gold in the Treasury." April 5th: FDR's Executive Order 6102 goes into effect. April 12th: Last "legal" day to participate in coin-for-coin exchanges. May(?)-June(?) - An entire bag (250) of 1928 Saint-Gaudens DEs is stolen from the Philly Mint vault. The bag appears to have been stolen at the same time that 1933 Saints were placed in the vault.

I've seen labels that mention the Die Crack but not in the coin designation itself.

Are there LOTS of sales at those respective prices...or are you seeing just an outlier every now and then ? Not sure $170/$180 vs. $150/$160 is a big enough gap or trend change but I'll take your word for it since I don't watch this particular issue that closely. I am pretty sure this coin was $100 tops pre-Covid. I'll check my records, I know I bought 1 or 2.

Were the 2013 Enhanced ASEs struck at WP ? I can't recall and my coins are buried under stuff. But it is indicative of classic coins being legit, so that's good. Tough to replicate known die cracks.

Great, a completely new grading system where we can argue over the same things as with the current 70-point system. It's the English Standard vs. the Metric System all over again !!

Some are proofs and others aren't ? That's very interesting. I'm not an expert on the 1913 Liberty Head...but if they were struck "illegally" or even accidentally....I would think they'd all be struck the same way (proof or regular strike), especially if it involved nefarious activitity. Last thing you want to do is take too much time switching dies and stuff if you want to get away with an illegal or unauthorized act.

You gave a few pages to the 1921 "Specimens" in your DE book, though noting definitive proof was lacking. Is it wrong for a TPG to note "Specimen" on the label as long as both buyer and seller are aware that it is based on appearance and not special dies, polishing, or a different press ?

I believe the 2013 Enhanced ASEs were labeled with "SP" on them. I thought they were proof finishes.

Wow, that high ? Pre-Covid, with silver about the same price as today, I was seeing coins like this for about $50-$75 tops. Over $100, huh ? Wow......

Please refrain from posting duplicate threads if you don't get an immediate answer, Rick. People pop in-and-out here over the course of a day...someone will eventually get to your post/question.

Make sure the file format is OK; size shouldn't be a problem unless they are super-large.

Yup, brain-lock....I saw the Weinman obverse and the dated look and forgot about regular ASEs. Thanks, CB !

It doesn't matter to me, JKK, but what if anybody here has several dozen different coins they want to ask about in a few days or weeks ? Gonna be alot of new threads clogging the top of the active thread rankings.

Jessica, listen to Coinbuf and some of the veterans.....don't WORRY about the grades existing coins you have are or what they are worth....read about them....learn about different grade levels (mostly Mint State vs. About Uncirculated)...decide which coins you want to focus on....ask others here who might be collectors of that particular type and if it is possible to get a complete or nearly-complete collection (and how much it might cost in various grades)....etc...etc. You should probably start off with the 2022 or 2023 RED BOOK and maybe a primer on a particular coin you want to focus on. The Red book is an annual review of all U.S. coin denominations going back over 150 years....short information paragraphs....price information (dated, but better than nothing)....and you can read little facts about particular coins, years, or mint marks.

Jessica....if you have more of these coins, I would suggest just 1 "Inquiring" thread and keep adding any coins you have to it. You can call it "Inquiring About My Longtime but Small Collection" or "Inquiring About A Few Coins" or just even "Inquiring." No need to create more threads if you are just asking about a bunch of different coins. Unless a coin has been preserved from the time it was struck at the mint, it's most likely circulated and/or cleaned. The cleaning may have been with liquids...it may have been just wiped with a cloth or tissue...it may have even just rubbed inside someone's pants pocket. They are all going to show up as "cleaning" or "rub" or "wear" to some extent.

I've come across some interesting stuff on Eagles and Half/Quarter Eagles while doing more reading on Saints. Not sure I have posted it here. If we don't have a dedicated thread on the sub-$20 Eagles, we should.

Are you saying that there are very few survivors from the 9,443 Proofs today ? Or that there are many survivors, but they are in super-duper strong hands not willing to sell ? At least in this country, proof strikings 100+ years ago were made exclusively for collectors and unless sold for a nominal premium to face value would have been preserved. Maybe that wasn't the case overseas...maybe small-denomination proofs were regularly used in commerce ? I would think that the Proofs would be preserved and business strikes used for commerce but maybe not.

Are you going to be sending in regularly ? Are you into coin collecting ? I'm not sure it pays to have your coins graded unless you have a large amount of VALUABLE coins. The time, effort, and $$$ might not be worth it especially if you only have a few coins. Probably best then to take them to an LCS.

It's some kind of commemorative or something....Walking Liberty pieces weren't struck in 1996....not even sure they were made in $1....this may or may not have 1 ounce of silver. Unless it's a restrike I am unaware of.