JKK

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

Bob's one of the good guys. On your coin, I like it and don't think the prominent mechanical doubling will be a factor, so you did right not to throw an extra $18 at variety identification.
I'm not one of the good guys, really, but I am a fellow Kansas boy. From Hutch (E 14th St and McCandless Bulldogs represent); I remember the Cosmosphere when it was just a little planetarium. I miss Carriage Crossing and Iron Horse BBQ, living out here in self-imposed Northwestern exile. Most of my paternal relatives live around Wichita, Andover, Derby, Beaumont, and such. Mom's side are divided between Chase County, Emporia, and the JoCo burbs. Both parents grew up in Chase. I remember going to Wichita as a tot to visit cousins, and watching the KAKE-man on Saturday morning TV.
I haven't been home in years. I yell at Jeff Probst: "Why are you stressing over 'come on in, guys'? Just say 'come on in, folks,' like you would back home."
My own intro to coins came in Chase, specifically the family ranch NE of Strong City. I found a black coin in front of the carriage-room and it was a worn Barber dime, probably fumbled there by my great-grandparents. They let me keep it and started giving me old coins. 53 years later, here we are.
To me, sliders are a pitch I used to throw until my catchers told me it was lame and to concentrate on the knuckleball.

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

Ancients, some medieval, and general world coins. I have a US collection but it isn't my focus lately. I like the challenge of coinage of the Islamic world.
The ancients part began in college when my Roman history prof, in a class on the early Roman Empire, brought in some Suetonian coins and taught us how to read the legends. A few years out of school I had some money and a decent job, and I found a siliqua of my folk hero, Julian II. Still have it. It did not take me long to learn that ancient coins simply weren't that expensive for the most part, mainly because the demand is low, mainly because attributing them takes skill and references most people won't invest in. I did.
While studies in Arabic calligraphy and the Arabic and Hebrew languages got me a fair start on Semitic coinage, what kicked me into gear was buying out a very large collection of south Asian coins (roughly Afghanistan/Pakistan/India/Iran). This meant I had to figure out how to attribute them. This forum wasn't any use at all, but I found one that was. The references were ungodly expensive, but one only has to buy them once. The real hard part is understanding the Arabic/Persian alphabets and numeral systems. Pretty soon I learned that hardly anyone else did this; even my mentor in our club was quickly outpaced by what I was absorbing. Now it's an important part of what I collect.
To me, the worst thing that ever happened to this board (well, outside of some of the thread necromancers joining) was the unification of US, world, and ancient coinage into this particular forum. If it were in my power I would split them back apart tomorrow.

What amazes me is that anyone ever answers anyone who collects nickels but cannot spell the word. That's like a candidate for the land's highest office putting out signs that say "Joe Blow for Precedent." If it were up to me their posts would be auto-deleted. Don't ever make me moderator, I guess.

Nope.

Depends how you want to do it. Consensus is that it's useless to compile our own list and that we should just have links or photos. Once you decide exactly what the concept should be, create the content in whatever form, then ask the admins to stick it. Someone has to sort of own the topic and be assigned editing rights that will survive the normal sunsetting of those (I think it's a month by default), but they will do that if you have a good reason. What I would not do is try and do it in this thread--definitely start a new one.

I went searching for such a thread, rooted around a while in the WYNTKs without finding it. We have a steady stream of numismatists or coin-curious folk who use terms without having any idea what they are saying. While we take time to correct and educate, it occurs to me we could have a post containing these.
Do we in fact have such a thread/post? If not, does anyone else think this would be a good idea? If there's support, I'd start with some basics and then look to add posted suggestions. Terminology matters. It gets really tiring telling someone that their "silver penny" is not actually silver, for example. We can't expect people to learn proper descriptive terms unless we're willing to do something positive that makes it simpler for them.

I went searching for such a thread, rooted around a while in the WYNTKs without finding it. We have a steady stream of numismatists or coin-curious folk who use terms without having any idea what they are saying. While we take time to correct and educate, it occurs to me we could have a post containing these.
Do we in fact have such a thread/post? If not, does anyone else think this would be a good idea? If there's support, I'd start with some basics and then look to add posted suggestions. Terminology matters. It gets really tiring telling someone that their "silver penny" is not actually silver, for example. We can't expect people to learn proper descriptive terms unless we're willing to do something positive that makes it simpler for them.

I went searching for such a thread, rooted around a while in the WYNTKs without finding it. We have a steady stream of numismatists or coin-curious folk who use terms without having any idea what they are saying. While we take time to correct and educate, it occurs to me we could have a post containing these.
Do we in fact have such a thread/post? If not, does anyone else think this would be a good idea? If there's support, I'd start with some basics and then look to add posted suggestions. Terminology matters. It gets really tiring telling someone that their "silver penny" is not actually silver, for example. We can't expect people to learn proper descriptive terms unless we're willing to do something positive that makes it simpler for them.

I went searching for such a thread, rooted around a while in the WYNTKs without finding it. We have a steady stream of numismatists or coin-curious folk who use terms without having any idea what they are saying. While we take time to correct and educate, it occurs to me we could have a post containing these.
Do we in fact have such a thread/post? If not, does anyone else think this would be a good idea? If there's support, I'd start with some basics and then look to add posted suggestions. Terminology matters. It gets really tiring telling someone that their "silver penny" is not actually silver, for example. We can't expect people to learn proper descriptive terms unless we're willing to do something positive that makes it simpler for them.

Pretty sure that 'weakly struck' and 'MS-68' are contradictory bits of information. Not sure if you need a full strike or just a sharp one for 68, but my guess is that requires a full strike.

Okay. So far I see no firm evidence of errors based on the images I have.

I tend to agree from the standpoint of maximum return. The goad that pushes them forward is often the desire to get an estate closed out (you know this, but some others may not have thought of it), so that the process of reducing a life to a bank balance can be complete and the proceeds divvied. This might be especially true as a calendar year winds down, with an executor wanting it done before year-end.

If you take the coins to a dealer, be prepared for some disappointing news. Obviously I do not know what's in your collection, but it can take a very long time to go through a coin collection and for most dealers it doesn't make sense to dump out every wheat penny roll in hopes of finding a key date. Combine that with the fact that dealers will generally pay about half projected retail for US coins of numismatic merit, and far less for world coins, and you can see a collection of six big binders and a bunch of loose mint and proof sets get a $1500 offer and find yourself asking: "What? Is that all?" The answer is that maybe it's worth more than that to a collector, but not to a dealer who needs to get through the project (for which he is not yet being paid) and continue serving customers. ("But what about this whole coffee can full of S pennies! Aren't those rare?" "Mostly no. I'm not going through them all." "Then how do you know?" "Same way I know I'm not going to win the lottery. The odds. But if you want to pay me $50 an hour, I'll be glad to look at every f-bombing penny." "That's outrageous!" "Then take them someplace else. I'm no longer interested.")
The alternative is to try and sell them to a collector. That has its own issues, starting with advertising them and then trusting the buyers. I've met people at McDonalds to buy coins when I could see a confederate outside the glass keeping a close eye on me lest I pull some sort of a fast one. How is a collector going to appraise a collection in detail when it's spread out across a dining table at Denny's? The alternative is your place or theirs; are you willing to bring it to the house of someone you don't know? To have them come to yours? The best way to deal with that is to find your local coin club and see if anyone's interested in the collection; failing that, you could actually pay an experienced numismatist to estimate its value. Obviously if you spend $200 to learn that the collection might get $800 from a dealer, that's not so encouraging. Even so, going to your local club is one of the better ways because people know them. Anyone who had a history of ripping people off would be known and unpopular in a decent club.
Unless you have some big value stuff, don't expect much interest from auction houses. I helped a lady unload her father's gold and platinum collection, which netted her $150K, and we were not a very important piece of business for any auction house. We were treated well, but no one sucked up to us or seemed like they'd be bothered if we went elsewhere. So if yours might be worth $2K and contains a bunch of shoeboxes of loose unsorted stuff, from an auction standpoint the answer is almost surely nyet.
Then there is the tendency for our deceased relatives (and yes, I have had some of my own in this boat) to have seemed like great numismatists to their own families (where they knew more than anyone else around, thus seeming expert), but for the truth to out that they really did not know so much. I'm not making any judgment on your relative, for whom condolences are proper, just speaking in general terms so that you don't blow your stack at the dealer or collector if you find out that many of the otherwise potentially valuable coins were cleaned, mis-attributed, improperly stored, overpaid for, and so on. See it from their perspective. They get no joy out of telling you what they see, especially at a time when there are raw feelings and high expectations--but failure to tell you the honest truth is its own form of betrayal. There's no need for someone to be a jackwagon about it, but the coin collecting world has quite a few people who aren't social butterflies. Some have no tact, and live by a rule that says "I may be a jerk to people, and if they don't like that, they can just deal with it because I'm never at fault." This isn't Toastmasters, and we've got what we've got.
This post is a good example of the truth with the bark on. Most of it is not very encouraging. That's because I know how this road looks, as a buyer and as a seller, and have seen how far apart both sides can be. If you at least know of those possibilities, you won't be as shocked if you experience them yourself. There's got to be a coin club at one of those cities where there are honest people who will either evaluate your collection for purchase, or appraise it for a fee with no expectation of purchase, and whose standing among their peers depends upon a reputation for integrity.

And one can even go further and see why they might think that. To them, the great fear is that a chiseler will give them pennies on the dollar and make Major Bank. It is not in their power to know who is such a chiseler, thus even reputable dealers might seem suspicious.
If we need an example of why, there are lots of longtime "reputable" auto dealerships around that make a big deal of being no-dicker, no-hassle, and so forth, trying to seem like Alternatives To Those Other Greedy Skum Beings, all of whom turn out to be in fact actual standard car dealerships with standard auto dealership ethics. The bereaved, who have generally dealt with car dealers, expect our world to work something like that. Loins are girded up for battle, but the suddenly-novice-collectors don't own the weapons it would take to win, so it's mostly a show of empty warning. I feel for them, enough to write practically a book helping them find a good option, hoping to show that some of us live by strong ethical codes.
And it's hard enough for them when they are not grieving, but a part of them hopes no one would take advantage of grief while probably having enough healthy distrust of the human species to realize that oh yes, lots of people would do exactly that and have zero conscience about it. Interestingly, I find women to be more prone to trust someone in this situation. A reasonable and possible interpretation there would be that they are picking up on something and are more attuned to trusting the nonverbal/intuitive cues. Maybe part of it is also just wanting to believe that someone indeed can be trusted, and willing to bet the proceeds on that.

The cherry pickers guide tells you NOT to look at the edge because it could be plated or discolored due to environmental damage giving the false impression that it could be silver when it isn't.
Your coin Showed a copper core in the clad layers.  No questions, no maybes, it was a copper core.  A 40% silver planchet DOES NOT have a copper core. Plain and simple
Why are people hostile. Because they spent the time and effort to give you accurate info. Yet you disagreed with the most basic info that any new collector would understand. You disagreed with the XRF data for some completely ridiculous reason of being hacked.  You failed to understand the basics of clad coins even when explained in detail.  And you tried to peddle a 50 cent coin for a significant sum, even after you proved it wasn't an error.
Hey QA. Another person for my Do Not Respond list. He has shown he is not worth the time nor effort to help as it falls on deaf ears. 

We try to get people to read past posts, but not very hard. For one thing, every coin (or fake coin) is unique on some level, and most of the newbie posts are "I found this Rare Valuable [parking lot] Coin in my change and was wondering if I can now retire?" While they typically can't, we need to see the coin, and that means a thread and posted pics and some patient responses. This also applies to 1776 Continental Dollars, replated Lincolns, and other categories full of cattle's_solid_wastes. Yeah, we could tell them to please look at all the hideous fakes and replicas we've seen over the years, but in the end, there's nothing definitive but for knowledgeable people to look at the coin.

That's not to say that we don't gain respect for people who show that they have done a little reading. It makes a lot more sense than the persons_with_braincases_of_bone_matter who post sale items outside the clearly marked marketplace, or who post piles of semi-readable more_bovine_solid_wastes trying to tell us how smart and clever they are and why we're therefore all chowderheads and "playa hatahs." (All lies. I like the beach.) I know that I react differently when someone says:
"Hello. After looking over the forum and searching a little, I'm almost sure this example of a 1776 Continental Dollar is phony. Can you please confirm this for me?"
Than:
"wussup peepz my bampaw left me this rare 1976 contenental dollar i wanna no what its worth there very rare i no that also dont be a playa hatah i was muged on my way to ur 4um and bad peepz stole my speling ability and all my punktuation so its not my fault if this is hard to read then again nothin in my world is ever my fault cuz thats just how i roll now ima post this 4 times here and in sum other 4ums on account of i think this improves chances u peepz will help the n00b oction it so i can retire 2 a condom minimum"
And no, none of that is meant to imply anything at all about ethnic background. This garbage transcends all backgrounds. Stoopid and selfish are universal constants.

Spot blowups are fine so long as we also get the large, sharp images of both sides (still waiting on the obverse). Here is why that matters. If we have the whole coin, we can search all around it for evidence. This matters most when there's evidence of a die clash (dies damaged by striking without a planchet) or brockage (an extra coin involved in the strike), but also matters for such things as doubling. We would search the whole obverse for any other evidence that looked anything like the date here. If it were a doubled die, for example, we'd likely be able to see more evidence elsewhere. If not, and presuming nothing weird on the reverse, we'd confine our speculations to date punching errors or perhaps a very extreme form of mechanical doubling (the kind that's not worth anything).
While the shelfy look here is akin to that of mechanical doubling, the latter typically manifests as small, lower shelves or shadows kind of like that effect on some jerseys where they change the border to create a 3-D look (and usually look bad, but I'm old school). That's why they get mistaken for doubled dies; superficially there's a resemblance. What we don't get is shelves that relatively large with no other evidence elsewhere (which we'd need the full obverse for).

Thus my beginning with "If it were..."

I've never heard of it either. What I have heard of is a blast white finish (usually caused by hideous cleaning, probably with a dremel tool), or white billon (an alloy of debased copper or bronze with a little silver that somehow looks almost like real silver), or white metal (general grab-bag term in my experience for mixed junky metal alloys that mostly lack notable intrinsic value). The first is common with US silver, but the modifier should insulate you from any implications of racist intent. I mean, white is an actual color you can paint your house, and non-whites are not prohibited in any way from using it. The second I have seen mainly on jitals (Afghan regional small change of the era circa 1000 CE), to distinguish it from real silver and crummy billon that looks like common bronze. The third shows up on a lot of tokens and modern small change (I suspect the latter most often includes a lot of aluminum such as a weak Al-brass or Al-bronze alloy). To me, to have a "white coin," means someone actually painted the thing.
Long as you don't bust out the joke "white coins matter," I think you should be all right. Some people have zero sense of humor.