Oldhoopster

I may have interpreted the question differently.  It's my expectation that I'm given truthful answers to my questions.  However, I am not naive or gullible to believe that everybody tells the truth. If you knowingly lie or misrepresent something, I will no longer respect you, nor trust you.

32 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Where I deal most, the “rules” are that the coin is what the coin is and its history is a blank slate, period. 
 

Regarding CAC beaning, if I had it slabbed, it has never been seen by CAC, nor will it ever be, unless YOU send it. And THAT, my friends, is an iron clad guarantee. 
 

If what three NGC graders said isn’t good enough for you, JA’s opinion isn’t good enough for me. Simple. 

Don't know where you're going with this, Kurt.  All I did was respond to Roger's question in the OP.  Don't overthink things.

If you're just responding with your opinion regarding CAC, it would be less confusing (at least to me) if you posted it as a stand alone and not in response to one of my posts that has nothing to do with CAC.  I have no problem if you disagree with my opinion, especially since you usually offer your reasons in the reply, but I have no idea of the purpose for your comments to my posts 

8 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

What if the seller says, “The coin is what the coin is.”?

Is a telling me a lie? No. But it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand what he’s saying with that response.  The coin has negative attributes that he doesn’t want to talk about.  So, he answered my question by not answering it and I’ll make my purchasing decision accordingly.  Pretty simple

 I would expect that the seller/TPG not knowingly misrepresent an item and answer any questions honestly.  Not providing all the info falls into a gray area (as with many sales transactions), but if I ask "did you send this coin to CAC?" Or " do you know if this coins has been broken out if a slab?", I expect a truthful answer.  If you lie to me and I find out, I'll call you out, tell others what I think of your honesty/credibility, and refuse to do business with you again.  

Morgan dollars seem to selling at a premium now.  Apmex and JM are selling run of the mill Morgans for upper $30's depending on qty, so $33 isn't too bad IMO.  I haven't been to a show or Local shop in a while, but my guess is that they would be similarly priced. The holder is nonsense and adds nothing to the value 

1 hour ago, Brian ab said:

Well that's funny because it's not a bad coin it's a planchet error coin all pitted on copper core an zinc nickle layer covers all damaged spots an can clearly see that if bad damaged coin you would see copper but you don't see copper if don't know don't give people bad advise just don't answer it an that can from heritage auction house us mint error expert 

If I understand correctly, you're saying that the copper core was pitted and when they added the Copper/Nickel clad layer (not zinc nickle) it filled in the the pits leaving the depressed regions, Correct?

If you understand manufacturing process, you’ll know that you’re explanation can’t happen.  You start with 3 layers that are bonded and rolled together.  The outer clad are too thick to sag into any defects in the copper core layer, it will remain flat as it’s rolled.  Even after striking, it wouldn’t look like your coin

I am also very skeptical that an error expert from Heritage Auctions would tell you that this coin was an error.  They know too much about the minting process to make that basic mistake.

The only thing I see is a coin that suffered environmental damage and circulation wear and tear.  Nothing more.

While a strongly disagree with your assertion that a handful of people decided what should and should not be collectable, I believe that you should collect whatever interests you.  However, if you're maintaining that mechanical/strike doubling has value, I strongly believe you're mistaken.  They are too common to have significant value.  

Mr Lange provided some great historical context in a previous post. As information on the minting process became available 40-50 years ago, the MD was recognized as something that happened regularly.  

Maybe a reference book might sway future collectors but until then, I'm afraid that no amount of hoping and wishing is going to make this coins valuable, regardless if they are called an error or not.  Once again, I think a collection of MD coins would be rather interesting, but collectors (the market) will decide if they have any value.  

Just my opinion, not gospel from the book of "2 guys"

On 5/17/2021 at 9:53 AM, cladking said:

Many tax token collectors also collect the red and bluepoint ration tokens from WW!!.  The connection is not apparent except they are often found with tax tokens.  

Some tax token collectors collect food stamp change tokens which were stopped for the same reason; they were being used as money.  I don't know where to find these any longer but a search should turn up 1000's of different tokens.  

 

Competing with fiat used to be a crime but now days it's apparently traded on the exchanges because it is "useful" to Congress.  

I remember seeing lots of MO tax tokens (metal and plastic) along the red and blue OPA tokens in dealer junk boxes in the 70s and 80s on the east coast.  Can't remember seeing many from the other states, but there always seemed to corroded MO tokens in the bottom of bin competing for space with the OPA disks (They seemed to be the roaches of the junk box world  )

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

If it is not too late to post pictures, obverse and reverse, I would encourage you to do so. Grading is an expensive undertaking and finding out what you thought you had, after-the-fact, can be a real let-down.

@Quintus Arrius offers an excellent suggestion.  If you post clear, cropped pics, experienced members can provide you with an opinion on what you may have, and if it's worth sending for grading/attibution

BTW: There are things like die deterioration and mechanical doubling that are not true doubled dies and have no added.  It's much more common to find one of these, than it is to find a true Doubled die.

2 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

And no shortcut to holding them by the edge, loupe in hand.  (The only coin that mystefies me is the 4-dollar coin piece.  What is its date? Anyone know?)

Do you want the dates for the Flowing Hair or Coiled Hair type? 

(sorry, trick question) 

You can always look it up in your copy of the Redbook.  

1 hour ago, Freedomsweetfreedom said:

I’d love to get them graded but man I don’t have the time or patience. What I need is someone who lived near me in 01844 who is honest to look at them and be fair. I know what they are.

Trying to take pictures is a real PIA.

I’m going to try a video. Just one.

Northeast Numismatics is in Concord.  A little farther is Colony Coins in Newtonville.  It used to be owned by a former ANA Governor.  I believe he sold it to member of the Boston Numismatic Society, but I haven't been out that way in 10+ years.  If I recall correctly, there was a monthly show in Nashua.  Hope this helps

First, make sure they evaluate the specific variety.  Here is a list.

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/

I’m not a Canadian specialist but do have a modest collection of most dates for the various denominations.  That being said, I never heard of the Fu Manchu variety but just saw that it was listed (unpriced) on the Coins and Canada Price Guide.  IMO, it looks like a minor die clash, and if it was on a US Coin, maybe would add, at best, a few dollars of extra value (and more likely, no extra value).  My guess is that it probably doesn’t add anything extra, but maybe a Canadian specialist will be able to provide some accurate info.

Unless it turns out that collectors of Canadian coins have recognized this variety and are paying a significant premium, it doesn't appear as a candidate for grading (assuming the variety is even recognized by the TPGs)

It looks like it could be an Ottoman Tughra. 

They could be low grade silver coins that were holed and sewn onto clothing, or even imitation metal disks made to look like coins (but my wild guess is they are real).  I don't have much expertise in Islamic coins, so I wouldn't be able to ID something in that condition.  It's possible they could be some other Islamic or Indian issue as well.  Due to the condition, they probably aren't worth very much unless you can attribute it to a rare type.  

Not your coins, but something to give you an idea on my line of thinking.  Found these by searching "Tughra" in Numista.com.  Hope this can be of help

for a good explanation, go to

http://www.error-ref.com 

Type dropped element in the search box

Many new collectors can confuse random circulation marks with dropped elements.  

Cool RPM. Wexler lists 49 examples.  CONECA has 91 on varietyvista. Try to attribute it as a goid learning exercise

https://www.doubleddie.com

http://varietyvista.com/05 JN RPMs/RPM Listings.htm

Its Russian Wire Money.  Not my specialty, so I'll leave the identification up to others with more knowledge.  My rough guess is 16th-17th century

Here are some links that should provide more info.

https://kyiv2014.com/wire.html

https://calgarycoin.com/reference/peterwiremoney/peterwiremoney.htm

http://silver-copeck.ru/8002/1.html

Edit to add - I purchased some of these in the past and most were <$5 each in conditions like yours.  Don't think they are worth too much more today

It looks like some type of environmental damage

Here is a good explanation 

Www.error-ref.com/progressive-indirect-design-transfer/

Interesting minor error

On 5/13/2021 at 1:26 PM, TheOhioPlayr~Stamps said:

Thank You RWB,

Obviously right that AnyAll abnormalities from the original are defects. However, with publishings like, "Cherrypicker's Guide, etc." By Mr. Stanton & Mr. Fivaz with a handful of others choosing "picking" certain defects & determining values on these errors, but calling out; let's say, "Die Shifting Errors" as basically junk I take issues with that and AnyAll remaining errors that are ignored because a few guys & or ladies says so.

All I am saying is, give AnyAll defects RESPECT/recognition with degrees of severity & value opposed too a few accumulative folks throughout Numismatica history declaring what is/what is not acceptable by literally picking and choosing.

I am just 4 years into Numismatica and haven't yet organized my tiny collection and with much to learn, but this is an entity across continents which I observes the limitations by a few constricts the full splendors of Numismatica.

Again, I believe that AnyAll defects by the U.S.MINT should be acceptable as errors and based on their severity & numbers discovered & MS, might determined the defect's/error's value? Thanks again RWB

It sounds like your concerned because "Die shifting Errors" aren't worth anything (I assume your talking about mechanical/strike doubling).

The market makes the decision as to the value, not a few folks.  Currently there is no significant collector base that supports the buying and selling of MD coins at a premium.  They are too common and many times, difficult to see.  There is nothing wrong with collecting MD coins if you like them, just don't expect to find a market for them when you want to sell.  There  isn't any interest.  Who knows what the future holds, but my guess us that they will be like common copper plated zinc cents in circulated condition, too many out there and too easy to find, for anyone to bother paying a premium

Now, if you're really interested, maybe you start classifying them and write a book.  That might be one way to generate some interest (although I think it would be daunting task with just the shear number of pieces).

Maybe you could put together a date set of MD coins.  That might be a fun challenge and you could probably do it CRHing. 

Die crack

Maybe you should be asking, "how did the minting or the die making process leave a near perfect circle?"

Being unable to explain the cause of the damage, does not make something an error.  Providing an explanation of how it can occur at the mint is required.  I know of no way that could occur.  There are countless ways for coins to be damaged after the leave the mint, and yours shows damage in that area.  

Here is a link to a site that explains how many diff types of errors occur at the mint.

Www.errors-ref.com

I believe it's PMD.  You can see how the damage extends through the remnant of the mm into 9 and 5

I think the mm was flattened by a hit