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Posts posted by Oldhoopster
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See if you can find an exact match on:
www.varietyvista.com
www.doubleddie.com
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Absolutely damaged
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55 minutes ago, vnam1971 said:
Appreciate the overview and additional comments Quintus Arrius. Definitely things to consider here. I do not see V.D.B. under magnifying glass and under Lincoln's shoulder. Would that not be on a 1909 or 1909-S only, or were you just joking? Elaborate please if you were serious. Who is Ratzie33, the resident expert?
All Lincoln cents since 1918 have a VDB on the edge of the shoulder near the rim. If it's missing, that could be another piece of data pointing that your coin is a fake.
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There are lots of 1943 copper Chinese counterfeits and they have been around for awhile. Some are die struck on copper planchets, so they weight will be correct and it won't stick to a magnet. Check out Alibaba. Sorry, but I believe you have a counterfeit. The details are soft and mushy. I think with a little research, you might be able to match the weak reverse die as well as the marks near IGWT
- Alex in PA., vnam1971 and Sharann
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Mechanical Doubling (MD). See how it's flat and there are no split serifs? Those are characteristics of MD.
You may have seen this link already, but just in case you haven't, or other new collectors are interested, here is a good explanation.
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If it's raised, the "cut" looks like it could be a plating blister. These are common on copper plated zinc cents
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@silky those are some extremely rare coins. I hate to sound negative, but the chances of finding any one of them would be lottery winning odds.. Finding all 3??? In a market in the Philippines? There is practically no chance of them being authentic. Sorry for the bad news
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I agree with @Hoghead515 Some type of glue
- Hoghead515 and l.cutler
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@Silky has others have said, please post clear pics on this thread. Also, accurate weights would help. There are a number of very knowledgeable collectors and numismatic researchers who can help if you provide pics and weights.
If you haven't done so, check the coins with a magnet. Many earlier Chinese fakes are magnetic.
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I believe it's a 5 Aragot from Israel
The date is the last line on the side with the 5. You may be able to find more info Including help with translating the date here
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?ct=coin
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9 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:
(And the concerns expressed as valid as the day they were first conceived.) 😉
Just wanted to provide some info that the post is old, and the OP may not be active, nor see the reply. Also, this was the first post by rock jacket, so they may not have been aware that it hadn't been active in 3 years.
Just trying to help
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Yes, it's a legit error. @ldhair provided the explanation
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2 hours ago, CDirkse said:
Thanks for the clarification. I dont have any pictures. I just sent it in to be graded. I was just wondering if there were any others.
Dies are now made using a single squeeze process so traditional doubled dies like the 1955, 1972, etc., are not possible. There is a way for doubling to occur on single squeeze dies, but it’s usually minor. Wexler has an explanation on his site.
http://www.doubleddie.com/58222.html
I don’t believe there is much interest in this type of doubling. However, if you find them interesting, don’t let me discourage you. Research and discovery are always good
You can always check for known doubled dies at
www.doubleddie.com
www. varietyvista.com
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1 hour ago, RockJacket said:
Struck o Ecuadorian 20 centavo planchet perhaps?
The Ecuador 20 centavo planchet is 21mm, so it wouldn't fit into the striking chamber. It's also 4.0 grams
As @Conder101 said, the coin is very slightly out of spec by 0.06 grams. Minor variations in the strip thickness isn't uncommon and a slightly thicker planchet is the cause, IMO
BTW: This thread is over 3 years old
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Here is some very good info to determine if you have a clipped planchet or somebody just got happy with a grinder.
BTW: I believe the value would be a few dollars at best. The clip is minor and the coin has some environmental damage. However, it is a cool mint error.
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13 hours ago, Woods020 said:I found this beat 1985 quarter, and noticed something strange around the date. It looked like an extra 8, but I assumed it was glue or something similar so I soaked it for several hours in acetone and gently rubbed with a q-tip thinking I was seeing things still. Now it’s still there. What is this? Have I contracted pareidolia?
Yes, it appears that you've contracted a severe case of pareidolia. Have 2 beers and call Dr. RWB in the morning
- Woods020, Lem E, Hoghead515 and 1 other
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It's damaged and probably a dryer coin. The following is a good explanation (don't forget to click on the the link that error-ref has posted)
https://www.error-ref.com/?s=dryer+coin
@Greenstang makes a good point. You should never think "I can't explain how this coin was damaged. Maybe it's an error." You always need to ask "How could this occur during the minting process". If there is no explanation, then it can't be a mint error. The minting and die making processes are well documented, and understanding them is the key to understanding errors and varieties. As with anything new, it takes time to learn the process, but many members on this forum have a lot of knowledge and can help.
Here are some links that help
https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-the-mint/how-coins-are-made-coin-production-terminology
https://coinauctionshelp.com/mintingprocesshistory.html#.YGSfKuTsZaT
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9 hours ago, Conder101 said:
Nope, because if it has wear it isn't MS even if the TPG called it that.
1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:Precisely.
Then why did you imply (at least from my take away) that members can't find Unc coins in circulation? If you have a problem with market grading (which many members do), come right out and say so. Why dance around it? If you're straight and to the point, it results in less confusion for newer collectors on here who are trying to learn. Just my opinion.
Emphasis is mine
13 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:Modwriter, this is not to single you out, or anyone else for that matter, but this matter, in pertinent part as segregated above, was the subject of my recent diatribe elsewhere.
Question: How can one expect to find Mint State coins -- which by their very definition are Uncirculated, in change, which implies in Circulation?
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16 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:
Maybe it's me; maybe I'm the problem. What is the definition of UNCIRCULATED now, in 2021. Since when did coins never released into circulation, the very definition of Uncirculated, suddenly become something that by definition they are not -- and can never be.
It's too bad VKurtB is busy battling tropical storms and tornados because I know he knows the answer.
As mentioned in another thread
Uncirculated = No visible wear
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51 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:
Modwriter, this is not to single you out, or anyone else for that matter, but this matter, in pertinent part as segregated above, was the subject of my recent diatribe elsewhere.
Question: How can one expect to find Mint State coins -- which by their very definition are Uncirculated, in change, which implies in Circulation?
Uncirculated = no visible wear, not untouched by human hands
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1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:With all due respect, OldHoopster, it's still a little too early to arrive at a final determination as the folks most in the know, have yet to weigh in. And their comments may be of interest.
The cause of an irregularity (my term which, rightly or wrongly, embraces all errors, Mint die mishaps, metal fatigue, et al) apparently is of interest as evidenced by the hours and days members speculate on them, some disagreeing violently at times.
Your grocery list is a good start. And there are experts here who can narrow down the possibilities. The ultimate answer will come from someone with hands-on experience whose side-hobby is to better understand thru trial and error exactly what caused the finished product involving chemicals, time, temperature, etc. Who knows, maybe it was pitching a coin into a beaker of Coca-Cola for an interval? (No, not the one with corn fructose syrup; the one from Mexico containing cane sugar.) I refer to them jocularly as mad scientiists and it is they who contribute to our cumulative knowledge of damage found in numismatics much the way the National Transportation Safety Board, after poring over the wreckage of air crashes and studying the flight data and cockpit voice recorders can tell us, with a reasonable degree of certitude, what happened, why, and what the industry can do to prevent future tragedies.
We will have to give this topic time to gain traction.
Agree to disagree.
I understand the curiosity factor, but what are the experts going to bring? Unless they did a controlled experiment to simulate potential environmental conditions, they are just offering an opinion. If you are interested in experts narrowing down the possibilities, maybe you should tag them so they can respond.
Once again, does it really matter if the coin was damaged by a strong acid, weak acid, or base. It's damage. If you want to do a controlled experiment and report the results, knock your socks off. While I think the results will be interesting, I don't believe it will add much to the body of scholarship regarding the minting process
As for your comment regarding members spending lots of time discussing the exact cause if PMD, thats my point, does it really matter? It's PMD.
BTW: did a number if "informal" experiments in the chem lab during grad school. Clad coins don't play well with nitric acid. Also, if a quarter is hydraulically pressed into a thick aluminum oxide substrate, it will completely melt at 2800F (could never prove which production operator did that experiment, but it ruined about $1000 in parts and high temperature kiln fixtures)
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There is no one size fits all answer. In order to clean/conserve a coin, you need to determine the following
- What do you want to remove. Toning, corrosion, dirt, organics?
- Which chemicals will work best for removal. Solvents, acids, alkalis?
- What will those chemicals do to the rest of the coin? Will it react and be noticeable to The luster or metal surfaces
- Estimate the condition of the surface under the stuff you want to remove. Will it be pitted? Toned differently?
- Are there any harmful consequences if the coin is not cleaned, (PVC residue, or bronze disease)
Basically nearly every cleaning method can result in noticeable changes to original surface of the coin. If it's noticeable, the value of the coin will be reduced, sometimes significantly. That's why the simple answer to new collectors is, Don't clean your coins. It's too easy to screw it up.
If you want to practice on cheap stuff, grab some change from your pocket. You can spend it when your done.
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1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:Begging to differ, it does matter to the OP. He specifically asked ...what has caused this odd look?"
As the only member on the Forum who refuses to recognize errors, varieties, flavors, and the like, here's a suggestion: when you (the disparate membership) come to a meeting of the minds as to what environmental damage caused this -- if indeed you all agree that is what it is, why not assign it a hyphenated numbered suffix like you do everything else. After a diagnosis the preponderance of people who frequent this site are comfortable with, why not designate it E.D.-1, and so on.
The problem with trying to determine the cause of PMD, is that there are so many ways it could occur. Is saying environmental damage good enough? Is it acid? Nitric? Acetic (vinegar)? Hypochloric? Organic acids? An Alkali? Drano? Ammonia? Something else?
Unless you were there when the coin was damaged, how would you know? All we can do is speculate and give an educated guess. So once again, if it didn't occur at the mint, does it really matter what caused the damage?
- l.cutler, Modwriter and Fenntucky Mike
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Need some help not sure what this is
in Newbie Coin Collecting Questions
Posted
Nickels are not clad, they are a solid 75% copper 25% Nickel alloy.
Your coin is stained/environmentally damaged, or has some glue/adhesive or other substance as others have said. It is not an error of any kind
One of the keys to identifying errors and varieties is knowing the minting and die making process. You've received answers from members who are very knowledgeable of the process.
Here are some links to get you started
https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-the-mint/how-coins-are-made-coin-production-terminology
https://www.coinnews.net/2013/09/13/how-the-philadelphia-mint-makes-hubs-and-dies-to-produce-coins/