vnam1971

Without having an earned opinion on this matter, I would say that the odds of finding one would be in the billions also, due to how may pennies have been put into circulation in the last 100 years. On that comment I would say that the odds (although not near as high) of finding a counterfeit 1943 are very high also. That being said, and thinking about how many millions of consumers that never pay any attention to their pennies, I personally want to believe it is still possible. This is an update on my 1943 (P) copper penny. The 1943-S as I mentioned earlier in this post, has been found to indeed be a counterfeit, just as all of you thought it was. It was almost 100% copper and the "3" was wrong which I even picked upon after this post started. A coin dealer did the testing and inspection of the coin. At the time of that inspection I did not have the other with me, but showed her pictures, and she definitely wanted me to bring it in. I am taking it in tomorrow for what will probably be the final opinion as I think I should. Quintus even suggested I do this on an earlier post. My hopes are not high or anything like that, because I pretty well stand with the opinions given here, but I should not just shelve it, and maybe later discard it, without getting a composition check, and other various visual and professional on hands inspection of this penny. Just to close the matter in my head. One of the things I wanted to mention was the comment that Quintus made about the VDB Initials, and that was where he asked me if I could see them in magnifying glass. I bought a stronger magnifier than what I had, and proceeded to look at it again thoroughly. Maybe it is as someone else said on here of being a wannabe perception, but I feel that I do see a hint of the B...no others just the B. And it is such a slight hint that many would tell me they see something else. Now more than likely I am imagining it, and letting imperfect metal lead me astray, but there is another aspect of this. I have a 1945, a 1946, and a 1947 penny and I have inspected each of those pennies repeatedly and got my son to do it also, to back me up...............and there is not even a faint VDB Initial on all three of those pennies. I cannot even see where any may have been. They are somewhat worn pennies, but not corroded, and the strike is ok....not perfect though. And these pennies would be ones that a counterfeiter wouldn't bother with. They are not really rare in any way and their value is insignificant. My question is this. is it possible for these Initials to completely disappear over time, and can a microscopic inspection account for something being there when we cant see it with the naked eye or even a strong magnifier. I have three 1940's pennies that seem to have no VDB Initial.

It sounds like he was well known by everyone within this community. Has anyone ever figured out why all the ranting about validity of his coins was played out on this media? Since nothing is sold here and everything is mainly just discussed, I would think his approach to convincing people of what he had, would have been better served on selling sites like Ebay, Bonanza, or even Etsy. Etsy site seems to have a lot of people trying to sell coins for thousands upon thousands of dollars, and most are worthless. Did he just like to argue.....?

That's kind of funny, because I thought at first that Ratzie33 was indeed an expert that I needed to hear from on my coins, when Quintus first mentioned him. However, his second post elaborated more when I asked who he was, and I got the message.

Thank you Quintus. The VDB aspect of this I never knew until your first post. Have now looked at all my pennies of past years withing that time frame, and sure enough they all have the VDB just below the Lincoln shoulder. Before this blog, I thought the VDB Initials were found only on the 1909 and 1909-S penny. I have a 1909 VDB but no "S" yet. This was something that was very useful, because I would think it would be very hard to counterfeit it, because the initials reside on the vertical side of the raised portion of the strike. I checked all those on PCGS and they are indeed there for all the 1943 authentic coins which are registered. The 1943-S penny that I showed on here has been confirmed as inauthentic, due to the "3" being turned in, and composition was almost 100% copper and no zinc. Of course no VDB Initials either. Going to have her look at the 1943 next, because I believe it is a better done counterfeit than the 1943-S, due to the correct looking "3", and (as you mentioned) the various stages of degradation on letters etc on the wheat side. I learned a lot here, and I will hang onto it...get several other opinions, and will take it to a coin show as you suggested. Thanks again for enlightening me, and I will get a redbook. You have been extremely helpful. I plan to stay in this. I was not expecting to ever find one of these when I began, so I am no worse off.

I believe that I know what you are talking about now. I have a 1943 Steel penny and under the magnifying glass I can see the VDB Initials you described. Never knew that. Does this mean that if my coin doesn't have those that it more than likely is fake? I take it that the 1942 copper planchetts left in the bins at the start of 1943 production of steel pennies, and where the first 1943 copper were produced, would have had those same initials in the mistaken stamping. Am I correct in assuming this?

Appreciate the overview and additional comments Quintus Arrius. Definitely things to consider here. I do not see V.D.B. under magnifying glass and under Lincoln's shoulder. Would that not be on a 1909 or 1909-S only, or were you just joking? Elaborate please if you were serious. Who is Ratzie33, the resident expert?

yes...that's for sure. Odds are worse than the lottery, but you know......someone always win the lottery. The search will continue. Knowledge is everything, and I appreciate all the comments here.

I now cant argue that. Beginning to see things I didn't before.

Thanks for that last comment on the 3. I have looked at my 1943-S and now discovered that the 3 does not angle as it should. It is not a ground down 8, but it does round in and not at all like others that I am looking at. Thanks for the visual tip...this is helping considerably. I am determining that my 1943 is closer to real looking than my 1943-S is....and originally I thought in reverse of that, due to the condition my 1943-S was in. I will post it so you can see what I am talking about.

Thank you...that's what I am looking for. i will look at that. Sorry i didnt know about disclosing that information, but it makes sense.

Whatever the outcome here, I will post the results of my coin when the grading is done. I have reviewed now additional articles and pictures of chinese counterfeiting operations, since I started this Blog, and must say that it does not look good. They are indeed very impressive replicas. And the operations are massive.

Well so far just on visual only, I have been told about four times that this is a fake. What I need to know is why each of you believe it is. What are your flags (in the picture) that tell you it is a fake? This is important to know, and this is what I really need for future reference. I have about thirty 1943 steel pennies in various states of wear. Some quite nice and some showing wear in a very likeness of this copper coin. I have used a very strong magnifier to zoom in on detail and compare, and I cant see any discrepancies other than steel and copper, that would bring me to that conclusion. This is where some of you with expertise could enlighten me. I am by far from being any expert, no matter what research I have done, but would love to know how your simple visual leads you to that conclusion? Learning anything I can now, might save me a lot of headaches down the line. And yes, I will send it in for verification regardless of opinions here. I have to....I know you all understand that. If I don't, I will always wonder...could I have been right? My hopes have never been at a high level, because the odds are in the billions that I have one, much less two. But how I came to acquire them lingers in my mind somewhat. I constantly get 50 cent rolls of pennies from banks, and go thru each meticulously looking for error coins or rare dates. I have gone thru thousands, and it is time consuming. Granted, I get Canadian coins now and then, and even a foreign ones (possibly Russian or otherwise) in these rolls. This is where I found them. In circulation. Still doesn't mean they are real I know, because once I found a token in these searches. Once I am done with the rolls, I package them up again, and rather than turn them in for paper money, I give them to the homeless on the street. Sometimes ten to twenty dollars at a time. I can only seem to go thru about $40.00 a month, which is about 4,000 coins. If it turns out to be a fake, and even if it doesn't, I will retain and remember what each of you said early on, concerning why you thought it was. Oldhoopster stated that "The details are soft and mushy." This is what I am looking for. The reason you believe this. What you may see that I don't.

It could very well be a counterfeited coin. However, the texture, color, and the wear on details are often very much like other wheat pennies of various years that I have studied. I realize, and did so, when I started this blog that counterfeiting these coins was a real issue, but that is what I am trying to find out....other ways of verifying their authenticity (if any) prior to sending hem in for grading. The obvious ways, have already been done, and passed the test. Looking for additional ways that someone might suggest.

I now already that these coins are the most counterfeited coins on the rare coin circuit. I also know a lot about the 1943 copper and the 1944 steel wheat pennies. I have been into rare coins only for a short time, and have done my research. With that out of the way, I own now what is probably a once in a lifetime rarity, and not only one, but two. A 1943 (no mint mark-Philadelphia) bronze(copper) penny, and a 1943-S Copper penny. They are about to be graded thru NGC OR PCGS, of which I am a member of both. The reason for this post is to gather information on other counterfeiting means that I may have overlooked. Their Weight is approximately 3.11 grams, Neither stick to a magnet. The 3 is curved and downward like on the normal steel 1943 pennies. They show some circulation wear but the 1943 Philadelphia is actually very nice. I have compared them with those shown on PCGS website and graded, and my 1943 I believe is very close to the quality of those there. I am posting a picture of the 1943, so you can see it and make comments. I am very sure of the authenticity, and am so sure, that they are locked in a safe deposit box at a bank. Please comment on any testing that I might proceed with before sending them in. They are ready to go to PCGS...forms have been filled in, packaging ready, and double checked everything before I let the mail service get their hands on them. They are being submitted separately just in case. Appreciate any advise on counterfeiting to look for. I read that China had at one time tried to infiltrate the rare coin market with very realistic copies of rare coins, but the 1943 was not mentioned in that article.