GoldFinger1969

On 1/23/2023 at 12:23 PM, RWB said:

= I'll sell my Granny just to hold one !

So there's only 2....for just the 1861 year....I just mis-read that sentence ? 

That's what I thought but the paragraph was confusing.

Does anybody know if the Paquet Reverse Morgan Dollars are limited to 2 or if there were many produced ?

I know there must only be 2 specimens for 1861 (or maybe those are proofs ?), were there others produced for other years ?  Here's what I read that confused me:

"....Paquet Reverse double eagles have been avidly collected since they first appeared on the numismatic auction scene in 1865, just four years after the coins were struck."

I don't see how something could be "avidly collected" if there were only 1 or 2 at the time, right ?

On 1/21/2023 at 8:16 PM, VKurtB said:

The last York auction I went to before I moved south included 45 U.S. gold coins, 30 of them double eagles. It’s not uncommon, but that one was noteworthy. I snagged mostly Mint State Liberty nickels and commem halves at that sale. 

Just curious....were most of those DEs commons worth bullion value and/or heavily circulated....or were they all raw ungradeds with some real numismatic value ? 

I presume you're not going there for graded, certified coins ?

On 1/23/2023 at 12:55 AM, MorganMan said:

In my opinion, both obverses are about equal. But the Liberty Head reverse beats the Saint reverse by a lot!  Much nicer detail.

I get where you are coming form, but I REALLY love the majestic Eagle in flight on the Saint reverse.

I think there were much worse eagles on other coins going back to the 1800's; didn't TR say that the eagle on the Liberty Head looked like a grilled squab or something like that ? 

Both light-years better than cartoonish-looking eagles from the early-1800's, that's for sure. 

On 1/23/2023 at 12:29 AM, lcourtney123 said:

I have seen different post about different grading services. People use different companies for different reasons. I want to use NGC for all my coins. Are there certain coins/types that they may not grade? Maybe the easiest way

to ask is does NGC specialize in certain areas? 

I'l leave it to the experts to chime in who actually submit, but I think the graders pretty much grade all kinds of coins for the most part.  If a smaller TPG doesn't do a niche -- like world coins, for example -- I think they have that on the forms you fill out to submit.

As for which companies to use for specific coins.....PCGS has the repuation of being more valuable for domestic U.S. coins, while NGC has the same reputation with foreign/world coins.

On 1/22/2023 at 5:55 PM, Timely said:

I have 22 Liberty’s and 3 Saints. I don’t have any books on them.

Nice !!   Any favorites or special ones among the Liberty's or Saints ? 

My 1923-D is probably my favorite now since it's my highest-graded and most lustrous.

On 1/22/2023 at 3:40 PM, Just4fun13 said:

Can a category for non graded Morgans be created?

What do you mean ?  What kind of category ?

Would I be wrong in saying that buying raw coins today is more dangersous than 10 years ago ?  25 years ago ?  40 years ago ?  

BTW, Timely, nice-looking coin.  Do you have other Liberty's ?  Saints?

Any good books on the Liberty Heads ?  The only ones I have are the Bowers Red Book and the Liberty Head DE coffee-table book that I am reading now.

On 1/21/2023 at 5:11 PM, Timely said:

I may be in the minority, but I prefer the Liberty DE design to the Gaudens, both obverse and reverse. Gaudens is okay, but when I keep hearing it’s the most beautiful coin ever struck I just roll my eyes. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

True, and you make some good points.  The Liberty Head design has grown on me, more so for the obverse than the reverse where the Saint's eagle to me is light-years better than the one on the reverse of the Liberty Head.

But as we discussed somewhere else on another thread (I don't think it was on this one)....the relatively clean, uncluttered, and "basined" fields on the Liberty Head obverse make for a very appealing coin.

I have a Liberty Head DE on my Wish List.  

On 1/22/2023 at 10:43 AM, RWB said:

Anything along the false lines suggested is "possible" so it can not be disproved. But is any of it plausible given facts available? No.

Outright thefts from the Mint seemed to be very rare, they had good controls.  I guess the question is would unauthorized usage of the dies be something they were on the lookout for (assuming they weren't destroyed at year-end).

1857-58 does appear to be when coin collecting took off.  You do have some actual articles and editorials bemoaning this cult-like devotion as it was called at the time.

On 1/21/2023 at 8:16 PM, VKurtB said:

Your time limitations are what you allow them to be. I make it a priority to get to coin auctions in south central Pennsylvania. It’s so worth it that I can barely describe it adequately. There is high quality material at EVERY ONE of the auctions I attend, or I don’t go. And yes, this includes gold. Just one auction company is JMI Auctions of Stewartsville, PA. Their auctions are held in a hotel where Interstate 83 and U.S. Route 30 intersect in York, PA, about two towns east of Gettysburg. I get there by taking I-81 and going east through Gettysburg on U.S. 30. My late good buddy who was the President of the Harrisburg Coin Club is buried a LITERAL stone’s throw (decent arm) from the National Cemetery at Gettysburg. The stroll from his grave to the site of Lincoln’s Address took me three minutes. That area literally reeks of history, numismatic as well as general. The last York auction I went to before I moved south included 45 U.S. gold coins, 30 of them double eagles. It’s not uncommon, but that one was noteworthy. I snagged mostly Mint State Liberty nickels and commem halves at that sale. Since I moved, I go back for auctions including particular “target coins” for my sets. I have other “bizznezz” in PA, so it’s shared trips. I’m in the process of de-“north”ing my life. 

Very interesting....what would you say would be the split %-wise between these auctions being for actual collectors (whether intermediate or advanced) vs. novices or "accidental collectors" who just accumulated gold or silver and other stuff randomly over the years ?

As a side-question...what % of the stuff is Raw vs. Graded ?

On 1/21/2023 at 11:41 AM, JKK said:

Well, you've probably seen or at least heard of coin clubs full of grumpy old guys who rarely try new things or meet new people, and whose best life entails being the last guy in the club to go into assisted living. Some of them love coins a lot but fear that the gods would strike them dead if they showed an ounce of enthusiasm for a coin (or anything; terminal cynicism can indeed be a cause of decline). They decide that being capable coin collectors makes them capable coin dealers, where they'll fund their hobby with the profits from selling their junk and get away from the wife for a few hours a day (since retiring they both have learned that all that togetherness is a drag, and their crummy kids are still slurping at the trough claiming personality disorders and trauma issues rather than buckle down and help themselves (and from whom did they inherit those?)). What they don't seem to realize is that entrepreneurial success generally requires a tripod of skills, two of which must be above average (ideally expert) and one must be at least serviceable. There's artisanship (the thing the firm does), marketing, and recordkeeping. Typically they're good at the artisanship but inept at marketing and variable at recordkeeping. They didn't want to actually build up a thriving business. They just wanted to show up and sell coins so they could buy coins, but it didn't much occur to them that the public is variable and eccentric and prone to waste their time. So much for the dream. And that's before they've turned away about twenty teens who obviously stole collections, been burned by a dozen counterfeits, and found out what a lousy gig gold coins are for dealers. Maybe even if they had rudimentary social skills to start with, they stopped bothering after reality set in.

You're spot on....but you know what ? 

Those skills you cite as necesary might be essential to deal with people like US...but not low-brow people who have crappy "collections" or want to unload the family silverware at 40 cents on the dollar or dump some gold coins with some numismatic value for 75% of melt value (and think they got "found" money).....or sell other stuff on the cheap.

I've NEVER been to a pawn shop (not sure I've ever SEEN one in the NYC area  ) but they are popular across the country and they must do enough business to make a profit which means there are people that find them useful.

So who's to say that a "coin dealer" which is just like Fred Sanford's "empire" in Watts, Los Angeles with a sign that says WE BUY/SELL GOLD/SILVER isn't something that can attract the 1/3rd or 1/5th of the country that is comfortable dealing in that kind of shop ?

I used to buy my business suits at Barney's and Brooks Brothers....but lots of people goto Macy's or Nordstroms.  

On 6/9/2021 at 9:41 PM, RWB said:

Using the best pure copper for 10% would produce the darkest, most orange looking coins. Adding silver lightens the color and turns it a little more yellow. Color also depends on the heat source for annealing with coal imparting a bit of sulfur and gas (methane) being mostly neutral.

If the metal is in a thick cauldron with thick metal all around....how would there be any transfer of elements from coal or natual gas heating it below ?

On 1/21/2023 at 4:29 PM, RWB said:

Typical of confusion, assumptions and baseless guesses. The author was simply being a parrot on someone's shoulder thoughtlessly repeating what was heard.

Bowers and Galiette were the co-authors.

Obviously, there isn't going to be videotape or a court room conviction on these illegal activities....so we basically rely on what's been handed down over the years, right ?

While it COULD be true that this statement/paragraph is false -- i.e., Mint officials never did this in the mid-1800's -- it's POSSIBLE that they did.  Maybe Bowers/Galiette had multiple other listings of this kind of thing going on and their degree of confidence in it having taken place was maybe pretty high (let's say 80-90%)....not 95% like in a court room where it must be "beyond a reasonable doubt" but very high...and much higher than 50-50 where you just make stuff up.

Plausible ?

On 12/22/2022 at 9:10 AM, disme said:

Don Taxay and I started about the same time, the late 1950s, and Ken Bressett was close behind, perhaps mid-1960s. 

Wow, was just reading about Don Taxay....interesting fellow, huh ?  Boy, did he do a 180 degree life correction. 

I wonder if he is still alive. 

On 1/21/2023 at 11:28 AM, RWB said:

Maybe not objectively, but to the owner of a coin that looks perfect, but comes back "altered" it is critical.

If you call the TPG because the coin in question costs some $$$....wouldn't someone give you some information on what caused them to grade it as such ?

I wonder if they keep records (of some of the more valuable coins) and/or videotape the grading sessions.  If a heavy-hitter wants an explanation on why his $20,000 coin is now worth $5,000 because of a Details grade, if it's only a few days or weeks after the grading you'd think there would be a record, no ?

The date on this incident is not that far removed from the passage in Bowers' Liberty Head DE book about re-strikings and underground Mint activities.

See the Liberty Head DE thread.

I wonder about high-priced thefts....you can't get rid of them at a pawn shop or LCS....how do thieves think they'll get compensated for their risk and efforts...I mean....stealing a coin that is worth $50,000 and selling it for gold melt value isn't that smart, right ? 

On 1/21/2023 at 11:49 AM, RWB said:

That is speculation, and not based on fact. Until well into the 20th century no one knew which DE were "rare." Plus, it's not certain that anyone actually collected DE by date or date/mint. Lastly, dated dies were routinely destroyed at the end of each year.

Thanks... here's the relevant section which you can see bleeds into an editorial from HUNT'S bemoaning the surge in coin collecting among the American people, circa 1859.

On 1/20/2023 at 2:21 PM, VKurtB said:

I. BUY. AT. LIVE. AUCTIONS. Not S-B, not HA, not GC. OTHER auctions. Usually auctions that have no internet bidding. I time my trips back to Pennsylvania to hit back country Pennsylvania auctions. That’s how I roll. I window shop mostly at major coin shows. The prices there on U.S. material tend to be ridiculously high. I do snag some World stuff there. 

How many "back country" auctions do you have to attend to find quality stuff ?  It's not like these auctions are being conducted by the Pogues, Simpsons, or Eliasbergs.....nor the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, or Astors.

So is that really a practical strategy ?  I goto FUN or a decent regional coin show, I'm gonna find dozens of coins that are what I am looking for.  Am I going to find that same thing -- and graded -- at estate auctions ?  How many am I going to have to hit ?  How much time and travel and gas and motels will I go through to find what I need, whether it's a nice-loking MS-65 gold coin or some rare hard-to-find ?

Don't get me wrong...I think there ARE good/great coins to be found in the backwaters of America.  I just don't know if that can be a practical strategy for most of us, especially with time limitations.

On 1/20/2023 at 10:43 PM, erwindoc said:

I have been slowly plugging along on the 20th century portion of the set.  It only has 2-3 tougher years. Gold has went up since I started. so even the common dates will be more!

You're putting together a complete or nearly-complete set of Liberty DEs ?

AU-53's for the CC's ?

Is this as important as accurate grading....counterfeit prevention....good photographs for security reasons....etc. ?

On 1/20/2023 at 7:46 PM, Timely said:

I have 1097 Morgan and Peace Dollars.

If there's ever a space bus to the Moon....you'll have exact change !! 

Is that a Bald Eagle on the reverse ?

Looks more like one of those rubber chickens I see being thrown at "Svengoolie" on MeTV Saturday Nights !!