GoldFinger1969

1/5th ounce of gold, got it. 

Franklin's have been the subject of a super-intense debate over at CU regarding gradeflation and how coins selling for $500 or so were suddenly worth $12,000 or more. 

Is this a 1/4 or 1/2 ounce coin ?

Other coins -- including a few I have, like a 1927 Saint -- have rotated within their NGC or PCGS holders.  I think the 1927 moved about 45 degrees.

Not sure how it happens as I thought they were securely in place, but I've seen others as well that have "moved."

On 8/18/2022 at 4:48 AM, EliteCollection said:

Tom Koessl built this amazing set over a few decades, so it's referred to as the Koessl Matte Proof Set. Even though I now own the set, I will likely always refer to it as the Koessl set and will keep the Koessl slab and label as they are amazing.

That's a nice tribute.  Kudos !! 

This guy would like to have a word with you....

On 8/18/2022 at 10:39 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

You may be thinking - but these coins are fantasy, they never really existed!  

Is that true ?  I thought I read that a few "samples" were made and ordered to be destroyed.  Isn't there one in the LBJ Library or something ?

How big is the coin, how much gold ?

Another plus to having one in a holder is it will be easier to view it and hold it.

On 8/17/2022 at 8:29 AM, Princess Jasmine said:

Hi, I recently received 2 gold proof coins I ordered from the mint (West Point). They came nicely packaged - but I noticed NGC has a special grading label for the Purple Heart coins. Since I have 2, I am thinking of grading 1 for possible future sale. My thought is that although a proof coin, the grading would increase the sale value. Should I have 1 graded? Or keep in the original proof packaging. The coins are brilliant! I am super happy I ordered them. 

You should do what YOU want after rearching and doing your own DD -- like reading posts here.

Me personally ?  I would probably have 1 graded and keep the other one in the OGP.

On 8/17/2022 at 4:56 PM, World Colonial said:

Top 10 from $50K to $100K: 1. Saint Gaudens DE 2. Liberty DE

Interesting that the Saint DE and the Liberty DE keep flipping back-and-forth in the rankings as you increase the price range.

There's MORE coins and higher POPULATIONS for those years and/or mintmarks in the Saint series when you move into this price range.  There must be fewer Registry players among the Liberty DE series than with the Saint series because so many of the Liberty DEs are super-expensive, especially in Mint State. 

Also, it's 57 years of coins for the Liberty DEs vs. 25/26 (1933) years for the Saint series, excluding mintmarks.

On 8/17/2022 at 4:52 PM, World Colonial said:

About one-third of Saint sales come from the 1907 High Relief.  By itself, it would rank #15, just ahead of the WLH with 1,006 sales.  It's easily the most highly preferred coin for its availability and price which is further confirmed by the UHR.

That's what must lead to the continued posts or columns calling the MCMVII High Relief "the most overpriced coin type among U.S. coins" and the like. 

It's not that the coin should sell for less $$$....it's just that this coin has a unique set of underlying DEMAND which leads to the higher price.

On 8/17/2022 at 2:37 PM, World Colonial said:

Top five from $501-$2500: 1. Morgan dollar 2. Liberty DE 3. Classic commem (w/PR) 4. Saint Gaudens DE 5, Liberty Eagle Below are the bottom five:  95. State Qtrs.  96. Washington Qtrs. (clad) PR 97. State Qtrs. PR 98. Ike dollar PR 99. FDR dime (clad)

WC, what is this particular ranking -- or some of the others -- saying about the demographics and the $$$ behind those buyers ?

Can I assume that if someone is spending $501 - $2,500 on a coin that you have a classification that by itself will have Morgans and Saints at the top....because in the case of Saints, you simply CAN'T buy them for less than that price range (unless gold collapses) no matter if you are a Type Collector, a Registry Player, or a low-income or wealthy buyer .....whereas, only the SERIOUS collector is likely to buy Quarters or Ikes or FDR dimes for $501 - $2,500 even though many more people buy the LOWER priced coins for these series.

Do I have it right ?  Is that what the ranking or your posts are trying to say ?

On 8/17/2022 at 11:25 PM, Cat Bath said:

Check out Elite's proof set of saints.  (New owner of the Koessl set)

Anybody know why is it called the Koessl Matte Proof Set ?  Why not Elite Matte Proof Set ?  Are they keeping that name and/or not adding it to the "Elite Collection" maybe because these are proofs and they want them separate ?

Maybe EC will explain here.

On 8/16/2022 at 11:05 PM, EagleRJO said:

@GoldFinger1969 It really is very interesting to me, and I found a good book on the history and minting of Morgans called "A Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars" by Bowers. 

Good choice, I have the 4th Edition, I believe they are up to the 7th.  Not sure how much is new from 6 to 7. 

On this counterfeit thing....the government didn't make any 1964-D's (at least for public release)....so if this Dan Carr is striking coins that say that they are 1964's but are INSIDE those custom-slabs, then maybe they should be considered some kind of commemorative ?

He's not trying to pass them off as legitimate 1964-D's, right ? 

On 8/15/2022 at 9:30 PM, Coinbuf said:

I can't attend the party.....I'm watching "60 Minutes" !!!  

On 8/16/2022 at 9:45 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Agree that the numbers don't correlate to anything.  Comparing the numbers between grades isn't applicable.  MS65 to MS67 is 2 grades. VF20 to XF40 is also 2 grades, not 20.  Sheldon numbers mean nothing in modern day numismatics other than a method to order the grades from lowest to highest.  As @zadoksaid, we're stuck with a bunch of meaningless numbers have no bearing on anything.  They are the appendix of numismatics

As we have discussed before, many people prefer a great-looking AU-58 over an "ugly" MS-60/61/62 coin (I can't even recall ever seeing a coin graded MS-60).  While I do not believe I have seen an AU-58 price higher than that for an MS coin, the drop-off that you would think isn't there because of the higher-demand (than expected) for the lower-graded coin.

If coins are being downgraded to AU because of the slightest rub on high points, and assuming it's not bag friction, then many collectors may just shrug it off.  Purists will say that ANY RUB -- from circulation or bags -- means the coin should no longer be considered Mint State.  Therein lies the debate. 

I don't want to beat this dead horse, I'm not choosing sides, I'm just telling us what reality is. 

On 8/16/2022 at 6:08 PM, World Colonial said:

No, what I am saying is that I don't consider AU-50 to be AU.  I consider an AU-50 to be an XF-50. AU-50 isn't actually "almost uncirculated" because it isn't almost uncirculated.  It's more of a choice XF and maybe not even that under more recent grading. Similar idea for AU-53, much or at least some of the time.

Fair points, but what about AU-55's and AU-58's, with the possibility of + and CAC add-ons ?

On 8/16/2022 at 6:14 PM, Oldhoopster said:

So in reality, the numbers mean nothing unless you were trying to estimate values of large cents in the early 1950s

Right, but for better or worse (!) we use them for valuing the entire spectrum of coins.

On 8/16/2022 at 5:16 PM, zadok said:

...increments in the circ grades r larger than increments in the mint state grades, think bout that for a moment....

Makes sense, right ?

On 8/16/2022 at 10:01 AM, EagleRJO said:

Yea, at one point the 1903-O was the most rare and expensive Morgan Dollar, outranking the 1893-S and 1895 Proof.  Then BAM, a bunch of mint bags full of 1903-O Morgans are found.  Can you imagine if you were the guy who recently purchased a super rare 1903-O for boatloads of cash, and then they find the bags.   I think it's why those coins are still overpriced imo.  Prices can be sticky on the downslide. 

I think the 1904-O was a bit more rare but both were up there. 

What's up with this collection ? 

I see that Stacks-Bowers is having another auction on these coins next week.  But I have never heard of the ORIGIN of this hoard -- starting with the name "Fairmont" and how it applies -- other than it apparently is an amalgamation of various bank hoards from Europe (or maybe 1 big bank hoard, not sure).  "Collection" implies 1 person and intent to collect specific coins; a hoard to me is more random.  I've heard both terms used in regards to Fairmont.  Doug Winter has written extensively in his CoinWeek columns on this collection over the years.

The Fairmont Collection/Hoard is thousands of gold coins and I believe dozens (maybe hundreds) of Double Eagles (mostly Liberty's but some Saints).  Bulk of the coins appear to be smaller gold coins including Eagles, Half Eagles, Quarter Eagles, etc.

Anybody know more about this collection/hoard ?  Anybody buy any coins ?

On 6/23/2022 at 11:10 PM, World Colonial said:

He didn't mention AU.  I consider AU-50 to be XF.  There is a noticeable gap with AU58 and sometimes AU-55 and it isn't really "almost uncirculated". I also assume it wasn't a coincidence he didn't mention MS grades.  The price differences between circulated grades are narrower than between one point MS increments, not always proportionately but in amount.

You're saying you can jump more numerical increments in the EF and XF (and even AU grades) than in the MS ones, right ?

On 8/13/2022 at 4:56 PM, EagleRJO said:

I thought I would start another thread for this coin, instead of maybe it getting buried in some of my pervious threads about Morgans. Here is another 1903-O Morgan....

Eagle, I trust you have studied the history and price movements of the 1903-O Morgan in light of the 1960's Treasury Hoards, right ?

Fascinating stretch of coin history !  

On 8/15/2022 at 2:49 PM, Liam ll said:

My initial concern was as much about the space available to store them at this point. Obviously the paperwork takes up more space than the coins in the plastic holders.

You can always take photos as proof of any OGP direct ownership.