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GoldFinger1969
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Posts posted by GoldFinger1969
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On 8/25/2022 at 10:56 AM, zadok said:
...u seem to forget the info i sent u months ago about the photos taken of the farouk '33....
I will re-check, thanks Zad. A bit tired and overworked of late....my brain has been like a 2-cylinder engine asked to pull an 18-wheeler.
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On 8/25/2022 at 10:44 AM, Quintus Arrius said:
Re: 1933 S.G Double Eagle. The owner evidently consulted with a top-notch orthopedist. All traces of that leg injury have been dealt with professionally. There are treatments today that were unavailable in the years since. Great job! Thank you, @GoldFinger1969 for posting these crystal-clear photos.
You can still see it above. But I've seen other, earlier photos of the 1933 with a different angle where it is harder to see that gash. It's still there...still visible....but definitely washed-out.
Again....lighthing and angles.
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On 8/25/2022 at 1:05 AM, EagleRJO said:
But for most coins collected I don't get the obsession of some or the likely false belief that a green beaned slab will probably up-grade demanding a premium on those slab coffins.
Agreed.....
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May as well show the pics
....here they are:
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Very interesting that a recent photo of the 1933 Saint -- I think I saw it over on the CAC Forum posted by someone or EC -- showed a very glittery gold appearance with lots of luster. You look at the TrueView pics or the ones in Roger's book, and it looks totally bland and dull.
Just goes to show you that lighting and angles make all the difference.
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On 8/25/2022 at 5:28 AM, Cat Bath said:
Is she talking about the Duckor?. I think I have seen the others. So far as the 21 goes. I like the Baker & the Hesselgesser more even though they are graded lower. I still like the one below because I think spots are cool
I'd grade it a 66
I'm not sure, Cat....but don't forget you also have the 2 SP 1921's, too.
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I'm very interested in this Wall Street bond trader guy who apparently goes for high-end Saints if not entire collections or registry sets (or maybe he does but is keeping it secret). He may or may not be the same guy referenced as living in CT. But he supposedly has several UHRs and a nice 1927-D plus some other coins.
It would be ironic if I sent this guy my resume over the years and never hooked up. Figures, with my luck.....
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On 8/25/2022 at 9:03 AM, Quintus Arrius said:
I understand the 1927-D S-G Double Eagle was auctioned off by HA for a princely sum this week. Any thoughts about that?
$4,400,000 including bp. Here's the link with the usual great HA writeup:
This is the DALLAS BANK 1927-D; I have the catalog (excerpted in the write-up). It is listed as the 3rd best 1927-D by HA; I believe other independent writers/periodicals have agreed with that ranking (I have one saved somewhere on my PC; I can check if anybody wants).
I was at the auction for the Stephen Duckor 1927-D 65+ at FUN 2020. Went for just over $2 MM with BP.
The prices for the 1927-D and the MCMVII Ultra High Relief coins seem to move in lock-step. Their populations are very similar so maybe that is not a surprise.
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On 8/25/2022 at 5:28 AM, Cat Bath said:
Is she talking about the Duckor?. I think I have seen the others. So far as the 21 goes. I like the Baker & the Hesselgesser more even though they are graded lower. I still like the one below because I think spots are cool
I'd grade it a 66
I'm not sure, I'll research and report back unless someone beats me to it.
But then I saw that EC was an active poster on the CAC Forum so he's up-to-speed on what I posted above.
Also am now wondering if Simpson's sale of coins is related to his divorce. Not sure he would HAVE to sell, but maybe he chose to. The estimate of the value ($200 MM) makes it material even to a guy with his net worth.
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On 8/25/2022 at 8:58 AM, RWB said:
Charmy Harker's ANA photo report is interesting and a good "read" ("look" ?) for those who have never attended a large show. There were also many educational presentations not shown, but one person (and her cat) can't do everything! It was disappointing, however, to see so many factual mistakes on the competitive exhibits. With so many modern resources for accurate numismatic information, There has to be real concern when exhibitors continue to use ancient copy-cat material, or than anyone would claim there were "1921 special proof" coins.
1921 SP for Peace Dollars or Saints ?
I just think that most dealers are looking to make a living and are satisfied with 90% or 95% accuracy. A numismatic researcher like you can strive for 100% -- they can't.
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Charmy, have you noticed more people....more YOUNG people.....more BEGINNERS.....at your table since Covid-19 ?
We've all heard the anectdotal stories about people at home picking up new hobbies with their keyboard. Wondering if it is translating into traffic and a commitment past the stay-at-home surge of 2020/21.
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On 8/24/2022 at 11:58 PM, EagleRJO said:
I not sure I get the link between 2 specific types of coins and an industry wide shift from technical-based grading (imo more repeatable and consistent) to market-based grading (imo the original intent of the Sheldon scale), which some say resulted in many over-graded coins in general.
I think the overgrading was unconnected to the "2 specific types of coins" I referenced. I am just saying that was where many coin collectors and many INVESTORS/bullion buyers who waded into graded coins got burned.
I know, I had many clients buy Saint-Gaudens coins for $2,000 and $2,500 and $3,000 and up. Gold was maybe $400 an ounce back then....HUGE premiums. I told them to stop and many took losses but thanked me later for cutting their losses and not buying more as we went even higher on the upside.
As for technical grading into market-based grading....beyond my pay grade, discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere
....so I'll just say "It is what it is" and for better or worse you had a subtle switch over the years. And as market grading took hold, you got the looser standards accelerate within that format.
On 8/24/2022 at 11:58 PM, EagleRJO said:And is it really just one guy cranking out all those untold number of little green beans all these years, on top of all the supposed CAC rejects, that has some collectors going ga-ga?
My understanding is that John Albanese personally looks at every CAC'd coin -- but I stand ready to be corrected by those who actually submit and/or have spoken to JA. If his review percentage is less than 100%, it's still probably close to that on Saints and gold coins, as those seem to be of particular interest to him and CAC.
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On 8/24/2022 at 11:08 PM, zadok said:
...i dont think morgans nor saints enter into the decisions for CAC...u seem to think those series r special for some reasons?....
No, I just think from what I read they were among THE most popular coins at the time and also the key players in the 1988-90 Bubble. Those were the coins hawked by the telemarketers....Blanchard..... dealers....etc. They skyrocketed via numismatic premiums....and then collapsed 75-85%.
It stands to reason they saw the loosest or among the loosest grading standards over the post-Bubble years.
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EC, make sure you are sitting down when you read this:
Laura/Legend said over at CAC Forums: "I was shocked he (Simpson) sold the ultra. He was really stressed at the time. I think he deeply regrets it. He is still mad at me selling his other one. We tried to buy the PCGS 1907 MS67 CAC $20 in the CSNS Sale. Ooops we lost. His Saints and $10 Indians rank among the best....For as much as I harp about Simpson, the really best saint set is in CT. A guy has 3+ UHR's, the 27-D Morse 67, 21 in MS66, and the 25-S PCGS MS68, etc, He is not on any registry. He has $10 Indians too. We battled him in Morse and everywhere else."
I'm wondering if that is the "Wall Street Bond Trader" guy who I think has a Top 3 UHR. Have to check my notes.
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John Albanese posts now in his CAC Forum on the CAC website....had some good information in some of the posts, might go back and grab some of the more important ones. You never know if they'll disappear.
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Speak of the Devil......
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On 8/24/2022 at 11:05 PM, zadok said:
...not sure u r going to get anyone to agree with those reasons....
Maybe....but I don't think CAC could justify the time, effort, or cost to do CACing for Pennies and Nickels.
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On 8/24/2022 at 10:59 PM, Quintus Arrius said:
[I am presently wading through John Albanese interviews in which he provides very specific information regarding CAC's, the volume of coins submitted, the rejection rate, and the percentage awarded green and yellow stickers. Unfortunately, I cannot be flippant on this thread and expect to survive the ever-vigilant eyes of a card-carrying, dyed-in-wool superfan of CAC.]
Is that from a detailed interview he gave years ago with some guy named "Maurice" or from the new CAC message boards ?
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On 8/24/2022 at 1:55 PM, EagleRJO said:
According to the website page on grading NGC uses the Plus (+) and Star (+) designations as follows:
So, the question remains. Other than providing yet another persons' opinion on grade, or for older NGC slab labels before the above designations were introduced, of what value is the CAC sticker?
If you are WILLING to pay MORE for a coin that you know has been looked at by 2 experts (including John Albanese, who was involved at both PCGS and NGC), that is what you are getting.
You have NO IDEA who at PCGS or NGC graded your coin. But if you have a Saint-Gaudens and it has a CAC, you know that John Albanese liked the coin (and he has a reputation for being "tough" on gold coins).
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On 8/24/2022 at 11:58 AM, EagleRJO said:
Actually, all kidding aside this was a serious question. I thought the CAC sticker was also to designate better grading characteristics within a particular grade (say MS-64), approaching but not at the next higher grade, similar to the NGC+. So, what would be the difference between say a coin with an NGC grade of MS-64*+ and a coin with an NGC grade MS-64 that had a CAC sticker on the slab (other than to verify the grade on the label)?
I think that the #1 reason for CAC -- and I could be wrong -- would be the super-loose grading given to two coins: Saints and Morgans, probably THE KEY coins for most dealers and/or coin shows especially back in the 1990's and early-2000's (right before CAC started).
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On 8/24/2022 at 9:25 AM, DWLange said:
By 1987-88 slabbing had really caught on, and regular submissions (not Express or Walkthrough or whatever they were being called back then) could take several months to be returned. I submitted coins for grading only rarely, but that was my experience. Zadok is correct that one had to go through an authorized dealer. Direct submissions by collector members weren't possible until the mid-late 1990s.
Thanks Dave....would you say that folks at the time were submitting entire collections or the bulk of their collections...or just a few select coins ?
I know it's not an exact thing, just trying to get your impression.
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Was talking about the grading of memorabilia and sports cards and how PSA (affiliated with privately held CU) prohibited new submissions because the wait list was getting too long. I think they put it in place last Summer; it may still be in effect.
Got me thinking: when PCGS and NGC started up in 1986 and 1987, how big was the flood of submittances ? Were turnaround times long ? Any submittances rejected because of backlog ?
I'm not sure if the coin collecting community -- mostly older compared to today's memorabilia submitters -- was as eager to submit as I see today with PSA.
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Very nice job. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
I think I saw you speak on a panel discussion or something at FUN 2020 on Flying Cents or something, I can't remember.
....here they are:
I'd grade it a 66
CAC Education requested
in US, World, and Ancient Coins
Posted
CAC Forums has some excellent threads including one on The Simpson Collection (Bob, not Bart
) where our own EC is active. I didn't know that "Half Dome" was a current/recent collection that is still active and there are some other heavy-hitters (some anonymous, some not) active in Saint Land. 