gmarguli

Looks like the D & S versions are sold out in under 30 minutes.

I'm not sure what the Mint did to upgrade their system as it was just as infuriating as in the past with it continuing to sign me out every time an order failed and accusing me of being a bot. 

Not going to be much help other than confirm that they do appear to be pattern coins. Some are these listed in the Krause catalog, but not all. However, Krause is woefully bad when it comes to patterns. There probably is a catalog on Swiss coins where these are listed, but I don't know what it is. 

I couldn't find any sale records of them. Gut feeling is that they are probably work a couple hundred each. 

Contact Marcel Haberling (https://www.swisscoin.ch/) and he may be able to help. He's a reputable and very nice Swiss dealer. 

On 7/27/2021 at 11:17 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I've posted before about commemoratives going down 80-85% from their bubble peaks but I don't know of many (bullion) coins selling for 1-2% of their peaks 20 (??) years ago.

First bullion coin I looked at, 1991 SAE in PR70. $1610 vs $276. 17%. It'll be a little harder for bullion to get crushed as much just because there is the bullion value as a floor and bullion has risen significantly over the past 20 years.. 

On 7/27/2021 at 11:21 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't know much about those coins, but I suspect many were just bubble-peaks that really didn't reflect a TRUE market with multiple sales at those prices on the way up or down.

If you look at something popular and liquid -- like the 1995-W ASE -- there was a single trade at $86,000....lots of trades at $25,000 - $35,000.....and the market last I checked (I could be off a bit) was $10-$15K for a PF70 depending on the additional label inducements.

Is it down a lot ?  Yup....is it down 80-90% ?  Only if you use the outlier high price.

I picked the high price point, but I have no doubt that there were other sales within 20% of most of those. People were paying stupid money for labels. 

Also, those are only the prices the PCGS site lists. I just checked a coin I sold for $14 and it shows lowest sale at $20. Another coin I sold for $11 shows lowest as $16 (high of $226).

On 7/27/2021 at 12:21 PM, MarkFeld said:

 1%-2%? I've seen some dramatic drops in value, but don't recall any that approached those levels. 

For PR70 moderns, many have. You can pull the sale prices from the PCGS site. 

I pulled these randomly:

1989 1c - $1380 vs $70. 5%

1976 5c - $4230 vs $144. 3.4%

1999 10c - $1438 vs $23. 1.6%

1991 25c - $558 vs $20. 3.6%

1992 Silver 50c - $1895 vs $45. 2.4%

1972 Ike - $4715 - $240-$312. 5%

Admittedly, those are their high and low points, but there is no denying that the prices have been crushed.

On 7/26/2021 at 9:55 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Did it ?  As of this month, both PCGS and NGC have graded over 30 million coins in the U.S.  Not sure how  long cards have been graded (a few years ?) but whatever the graded total is already you can add 10 MM (or more) that could be graded tomorrow and the backlog appears to dwarf anything at the TPGs had int he past, even in the 1980's (upon commencing of operations) or 1990's (post-bubble).

Which coins specifically crashed ?  It may take a while for the supply to catch up with demand before prices fall.  We saw it with the 1990's Crash as card supply went from 250 MM to 1.2 billion.

Listen to the talk about graded cards and it is a repeat of what was happening in coins 30 years ago. Same BS about a single grade point inflating the value. 

People are talking about super high grade cards, I guess that is a 10 on the scale they currently use. Common junk, but super high grade. Hum, where did I see this before? Oh yeah, modern coins. MANY PR70s are selling for 1%-2% of their highs 20 years ago. 

Replace card with coin and this played out many years ago. 

Given what they're charging to grade a card, there must be a ton of profit in the business, which can only lead to a crash in prices. Think PR70 coins drop in value.

Perhaps one day, in a galaxy far far away, NGC can find a way to not put any color in the mix and we can get clear cores that allow the coin to be seen better than hidden? 

We need a core like PCGS uses so we can see the coin clearly, a shell like NGC uses that can take a beating and not scratch, and a label like ANACS so that you can see what the coin is from the top of a box. 

It's likely that NGC had some sort of documentation that pointed to this being Estonia. Perhaps the coin came from a mint roll of Estonian coins or even sealed in a mint set of Estonian coins. Or it is possible that the submitter wrote down Estonia and when entered into the NGC system, the person confirmed it met Estonian secs and didn't look any further.

Given the fact that there is really $0 value difference between this being from Estonia and Austria or France or any other country, and the coin isn't exactly valuable as is, they probably aren't going to be super strict on documentation. 

On 7/15/2021 at 2:27 PM, Jason Abshier said:

Just a month ago I biding on a coin I jumped on it a little too early it was up on last day of bidding however I was highest bid at $160 . Someone else came by towards last hour of the bidding me and 3 others were already bidding price ran up to $180 if I remember correctly I backed out however this person shows up out of nowhere starts running the price up to $190-$195 , $200 finally the 1st person who nodded actually won “this person who ran price up” in last hour had a “buyer rating” 10 seems like they were only hanging out around this  specific seller jacking prices up.

I’m sure it could be family member “hey I’ll pay it and you give me my money back blah blah blah make it legit”. Or the seller will say the transaction never paid through the 2nd highest bidder not interested or something 

That could be shill bidding, but probably not. You and others were OK at $180. It sold for $200. Most likely someone else wanted it in that range also.

If an item is at $180, why risk buying it back for an extra $20, when if you buy it back, it costs you $16+ in fees? Yes, the seller can cancel the sale and get their fees back, but eBay watches this very carefully. There is only one rule with eBay and that is eBay always gets its money. Cancel too many sales and they will yank your account.

As always, bid what you're willing to pay and forget about it. 

On 7/15/2021 at 12:58 PM, medved said:

By the way, I still awaiting your answer on the e-Bay (kabanjaka my nickname there) from 17th March about Latvian Proof 5 lati coin. Unfortunately, you ignored me.

I responded to a question on 3/17/21 from you. It's possible I missed another question. When I have hundreds of auctions running, I get flooded with questions and requests.

What was your question?

From what I know about these, they were not technically minted in proof. These were issued in mint sets and the coins came full cameo prooflike. Ivanauskas lists them as only coming in business strike. Krause calls them PL.

NGC calls them proofs. PCGS called them proofs (before they heavily instituted the SP designation), but apparently switched to SP. My guess is they choose SP instead of MS since the coins were specially struck (hence Specimen) and if they called them MS, people would complain since the coins don't look MS. SP is probably the correct term for them. 

By the way, I was the submitter of that coin. I sold it back in 2012 to a guy named Mantas in Lithuania. Is that you? 

On 7/14/2021 at 2:55 PM, Jason Abshier said:

There’s also a lot shady shill bidding going on eBay sometimes  if notice prices start climbing high really fast way over price of what something normally sells or worth chances are a eBay sellers has his family member or another made up “fake buyer” account bidding on their own stuff to Jack up the prices (but it’s hard to prove sometimes).

There is no benefit to this. If a seller places fake bids above what the item normally sells for, that fake bid is going to end up winning the auction almost every time. How does that benefit the seller? It's only going to benefit the seller if another bidder placed a bid above normal levels. Considering the seller/shiller is going to have to pay fees on that fake win, that's a pretty lousy risk, hoping for a dumb bidder to come along and overbid. 

I believe that shill bids just replace real bids the vast majority of the time. Item worth $100 is at $50. Shill bid placed at $95. Item sells for $100. Did the shill increase the sale price? Nope, they just replaced the bids of other bidders that would have bid in the $51-$95 range.

Only time shill bidding can really work is if you know the high bidder is willing to pay significantly more than the underbidder. That's a difficult, but not impossible thing to know.

1 hour ago, Moxie15 said:

Fact you provide no reference for any of your Self Proclaimed facts ^1.

If this was in a Sophomore high school level research paper (when and where I was a sophomore in high school)^2 you would have just failed for presenting something as fact with no citation to prove your 'facts'.

1. NGC Coin forum "How many countries will make "Defeat of the Covid Empire" coins in 2021?"

2. Stevens High School Mr Grenier's Sophomore English class 1977

p.s. I would get no better than a 'D' for incomplete and / or incorrectly citation

 

So where did you find your 'facts'

If this were a sophomore paper, I'd be forced to include how COVID was caused by whiteness and I'd be canceled for calling Mr. Grenier Mister, without first finding out their preferred gender pronoun. I'm sure he/his/they/them Grenier would want that. 

As for my facts, try a search engine.

2 hours ago, Crawtomatic said:

Facilities are paid for treatment, not deaths.  Death cause is reported elsewhere to another organization but is unrelated to the billing for admission & treatment. 

But the government needs the death total to be high. Look at what the government did:

• Spent trillions of dollars fighting COVID.
• Destroyed the livelihood of millions of Americans.
• Caused the permanent closure of tens of thousands of businesses.
• Created massive unemployment.
• Allowed an unconstitutional taking of property from hundreds of thousands of landlords. 
• Caused inflation that will end up harming the elderly the most.
• Created a disincentive to work, so businesses are struggling to find workers.
• Inadvertently caused a spike in housing prices that further puts homeownership out of reach of the people they say they want to help.
• On and on and on...

They need to say they did this to benefit us. Look voters, it killed millions, but thank god we stopped it. It was all worth it. Vote for me for reelection. In reality, they massively overreacted. To save face they need to attribute a ton of deaths to COVID.

32 minutes ago, JKK said:

It's less misshapen than they had been a century before. It's a little heavy for a rupee. I don't see anything that hints to me at Bengal Presidency, and the date I see fits with the name shown, but maybe I'm incorrect about something. Maybe it's my version of Krause, which has a coin (that isn't this one) that says it used to be designated KM #126. The image color looks like silver, but the tarnish (slight, visible under magnification thanks to excellent photos) connotes copper.

I believe this is the coin. Listed under India - British, Bengal Presidency, Bengal Coinage. It's page 950/951 of the current 18th century catalog.

It's India - Bengal Presidency. AH1195//22 and based on weight/size, it is a 1/2 Anna. Probably KM-126.

1 hour ago, Hoghead515 said:

I know a lady really well who died of cancer. She had bad cancer for 3 years and was on her deathbed. They wrote it down as our counties first covid death in the news papers. She didn't even have covid. Her kids were really mad over it. Even the autopsy came back negative for covid. I've been wondering how many more deaths were reported falsely 

Similar story. Distant relative had terminal cancer. She got COVID and went in the hospital, but she fully recovered and went home. Few weeks later she died from cancer. What was her cause of death? COVID! Even though she was COVID-free for weeks before her death and she had terminal cancer, the government called it a COVID death. 

The 64 has some surface residue. The 64+ appears to have a more consistent look in the fields. Over all, not a big difference between the two. 

If you have a coin that does not qualify for the tier it was submitted under, they will adjust the tier for you and charge you the higher rate.

One TPG used to adjust the entire invoice, so if 1 of 50 coins was a higher tier, they'd charge you the higher tier rate for all 50 coins. 

56 minutes ago, RWB said:

At present rates, Covid 19 will wipe out possibly 10% of the stupid who refuse to be vaccinated, and disable another 20% of the same. Those with long Covid and other associated conditions will also ADD to the welfare and public assistance roles. Consider how that could change election outcomes....

At present rates, the stated* COVID 19 deaths is less than the number of people who died from hunger during the same time period. If only there were a vaccine for hunger. 

*Stated numbers probable 50% higher than actual numbers (except in NY).

Personally, I hope some country makes a Dr. Fauci (falsey?) coin with an inlayed Magic 8 ball.