gmarguli

On 8/13/2021 at 11:07 AM, RWB said:

Nope. In 1965 the SMS coins were made the same way as normal circulation pieces. The only differences were in less handling contact and the pliofilm packaging. They were really just slightly nicer Mint Sets as had been sold for many years. Only in 1966 and 1967 were there real differences in manufacturing. This is documented in NARA files.

Both of the TPG descriptions ignore archival facts and are concocted from hobby publications, not from reality. Simply put, the descriptions lack the subtle differences in manufacture during each of the three calendar years. Once NARA reopens to useful research times, I'll copy the documents.

Here is what the Director of the Mint said on the insert that went with all 1965 SMS sets. Special Mint Sets are made from specially prepared and polished blanks and struck on high tonnage presses with polished dies. This statement directly contradicts what you are stating. Special Planchets + Special Dies + Special Press = Special Mint Sets.

You are free to argue that the Mint Director was lying, but anyone who has ever seen a 1965 SMS can easily tell that the coins are better struck and more prooflike than business strikes. The look of the coins match exactly what the Director wrote, not what you have been stating. 

On 8/12/2021 at 2:33 PM, Nick Bogiatzis said:

A beautiful coin. Not fussed re condition or date, but wanting the gold variant. 

You can find this design in gold, but they are presentation pieces / patterns. Damaged examples trade around $3K. Nicer ones $5K-10K. 

There are some large size gold examples with a similar reverse (lion) design, but has a different design with Saint Justina instead of St. Marks on the obverse. They generally trade in the $70K-$130K+ range for average quality examples. 

A Choice BU one recently sold <$100 on eBay. 

I'm sorry, but garbage like this flat out harms the coin community. Uneducated grandmas buy this stuff for their coin collector grandchild. 

On 8/12/2021 at 4:10 AM, Nick Bogiatzis said:

Have noted comment that not rare.  Still interested in buying one if anyone knows of availability. A long family story re my interest. 

Are you looking for this specific date/mintmaster and/or denomination or just this general design? They come bigger. From my collection, this coin in the full Ducato variety of this date/MM. 

If you're just looking for the design, there are a lot of dates and denominations to choose from. Most aren't expensive until you get into high grade. 

I've received hundreds, if not thousands of packages from outside the US and never once did US Customs contact me for duties. Several of the shipments listed values over $100K. I can recall only twice that packages were opened by Customs. They made clear notification of this on the outside of the package and included paperwork inside the package as to the inspection and that nothing was seized. Never asked to pay duties.

On 8/10/2021 at 1:11 PM, Rodent said:

I emailed U.S. Mint to ask them to honor my purchase.. but I am not expecting them to do anything.. if they do not honor my order purchase.. this coin collector will not ever buy another coin from U.S. Mint.

Sorry, but it's an empty threat to not buy from the Mint. If it is something that you want, you'll buy it in the aftermarket. Instead of Rodent buying it from the Mint, Reseller001 will buy it and sell it to you. The Mint still got the initial sale. In fact, the Mint is better off by selling the same quantity to fewer buyers. 

Undated 1763 or 1767 Italy Venice 1/4 Ducato. Doge is Alvise Giovanni Mocenigo. Mintmaster "DG" is Domenego Gritti.

Not a rare coin. Probably worth $100 without the hole. 

On 8/10/2021 at 5:05 PM, RWB said:

False. There are no reliable specifications by any TPG.

It's called knowledge. 

On 8/10/2021 at 5:07 PM, RWB said:

Separating proof from circulation strike coins is usually simple and based of accepted standards both of appearance and technical manufacture.

So, knowledge. 

On 8/10/2021 at 3:29 PM, RWB said:

Actually, we "know" neither for 1965. There is no accepted description of either that can be used to separate one from the other.

YOU may not know, but I guarantee you that the TPG graders, most dealers, and a significant chunk of collectors know what a SMS coin looks like. 

If you can't accept that you can generally tell them apart based on the look, then you can't say that the 1956 Franklin I posted isn't a business strike. 

On 8/10/2021 at 2:38 PM, J P Mashoke said:

Once it is removed I feel it is no longer part of a set. It becomes a MS coin How do you prove it is from a  Mint set once it is removed there are no mint marks on the coins.

The same way you "prove" that a specially minted coin from any other era is a specially minted coin and not a business strike. You compare it to the characteristics of known examples. I suspect with the SMS coins they could compare it to known dies if they wanted to waste the time. However, it's much easier to look at the strike, surfaces, and luster in order to come up with a conclusion. We know what a SMS example should generally look like. We know what the business strike coins generally look like. We can make a determination based on this knowledge.

How about this coin? I assume you view it as MS since it was removed from the set and there are not mint marks on the coin.

On 8/10/2021 at 1:05 PM, Rodent said:

Ya I had 6 in my cart 3 of the 2021 Morgan's and 3 of the 2021 Peace dollars.. clicked on place order 7 times.. cannot access this page came up each time.. then finally it showed a red warning that there is something wrong with your order.. ya the coins are no longer available.. sent email to U.S. Mint Customer service and asked them to honor my purchase.. is totally criminal to have items in your cart all payment methods in..and the mint takes the coins away from you.. if the Mint does not honor my order.. I am all done buying any  thing from the Mint.. 

They won't honor your order because you didn't actually place an order. You tried to place an order, but never succeeded. They don't have enough coins to honor all the intended orders. 

I at least have to give credit to the Mint. They keep changing their error messages for each sale to keep your frustration fresh. The page you are looking for cannot be found error was new to me. The confirm you are a human by pressing and holding the button was confusing. There was no button on most of those pages. Got two pages with buttons, but no matter how long I pressed it, it never stopped. Finally got one that worked.

Finally got confirmed that I got both coins at the 19 minute mark.

Now we can do it all again for the S-mint SAE on Thursday. 

On 8/10/2021 at 9:20 AM, RWB said:

1965 SMS coins are not reliably distinguishable from circulation pieces. Hence, if not in the original packaging, they could not be certified. '66 and '67 and proofs are distinguishable.

I disagree with the 1965 SMS not being reliably distinguishable. Superb business strikes can sometimes look like SMS examples, but SMS examples rarely look like business strikes. 

On 8/9/2021 at 1:36 PM, J P Mashoke said:

I think it would only be a SMS if it was still in the 1965 SMS mint set ? 

Why? Does a proof coin suddenly become not proof once it is removed from the set? SMS refers to a type of manufacturing.

On 8/9/2021 at 6:36 PM, RWB said:

It might be gradable, assuming the two light spots are on the 2x2, but no TPG could certify it came from a 1965 SMS.

You don't think that there is a reasonable ability for professionals to tell SMS coins from business strikes? 

On 8/9/2021 at 6:32 PM, RWB said:

Grade depends on the obverse side, not the reverse. 

Sounds like something you'd find when digging through historical documents. Today it's grade the obverse and if nothing major is wrong with the reverse, the grade sticks. 

On 8/9/2021 at 9:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Palladium, Rhodium etc.....are where the action has been.   Not gold ! 

Energy, animal proteins, and base metals are where the action has been. Precious metals were the worst performing class. 

If you don't submit a lot, just find a local dealer and submit through them. 

Was he an actual employee of PCGS? I assumed he was on payroll as an outside consultant. 

On 8/5/2021 at 3:13 PM, Petrius said:

 Given how hard these flips are to find in Europe you might be able to charge a pretty good premium and still be the relatively cheap option for consumer (also dealing with customs when ordering from outside of EU is a pain) 

Given how hard it is to find a European dealer that understands what PVC is, I don't think there would be much sales. 

I buy a lot of coins from European dealers. Practically all of them come in PVC flips or paper envelopes. Most of the coins in the PVC flips have residue on them. And the number that also have nicotine residue is amazing. 

On 8/5/2021 at 11:29 AM, MN1 said:

Does Ebay let bidders off the hook or hold them to what they bid?  I understand collecting $ from a buyer is one thing but Ebay should ban people like that.  I can't remember when I signed up for Ebay but don't have clause in the User Agreement saying the auction is legally binding?  I don't know, just asking.

eBay has/had a strike system. It used to be 3 strikes and you were banned. I think you got a suspension at 2 strikes. However, now they base it on how much you buy. From what I understand, it is hard to get banned as a buyer. All the buyer needs to do is dispute the strike and claim the seller was unresponsive, lied about the condition, refused to ship, etc and the strike disappears. I've been told that the 1st strike will be removed for just asking.

I'm not positive of the denomination. I based it on what I think the size of it is. 

1.8g = 25K. About size of US 10c.

3.6g = 50K. About size of US 5c.

7.2g = 100K. About size of US 25c.

18g = 250K. About size of US 50c.

35g = 500K. About size of US Silver $1.

Wizard also has Meghrig Archival Vinyl flips that are softer than the Saflip, but still PVC free. I used them for submissions.

Appears to be AH1327//4 Turkey 25 Kurush. KM-752 in Krause. 

Try wizardcoinsupply.com. They sell them for $11.89 and they ship worldwide (looks to be about $18 to Finland). You're at $30 instead of E35.