Official Saint-Gaudens/Gold Coin Price Thread 2 2

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

In cannot be stated with any degree of certainty exactly what happened to the 100+ million Roosters minted, i.e., how many were melted down, how many left the country, or how many ultimately survived.

OK...so that figure above is MINTAGE not SURVIVORS.  Got it !! 

It seems like record-keeping over in Europe/France isn't as detailed as here in the U.S....and the books on the coins don't seem to focus on this information either. 

Saint-like books like those by RWB, Akers/Ambio, and Bowers seem rare or non-existent for Roosters and other European coins.  I'll look around for some primers.

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:51 PM, Cat Bath said:

.... I'd say as few as a dozen new set collectors with money could really screw things up.

As regarding gold Roosters, absolutely!  But that may very well be true for other comparatively short series as well.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:51 PM, Cat Bath said:

I'd say as few as a dozen new set collectors with money could really screw things up.

Could be as few as 2 bidders if they both want "the best" and there's only 1 coin with that pedigree. 

[World Colonial]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

And 9,443 matte proofs were minted in 1900, the rarest date in the series--

That's not rare for a proof of this era or for any coin where I can reasonably presume most which exist are still "UNC" equivalents.

Were these melted in large proportion too?  I've never heard of a coin specifically made for collectors being melted in quantity, unless it didn't sell out.

On 12/8/2022 at 10:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I have never heard of the 1900 referred to as the "only....collectible date," but it is the rarest in the 16-coin series (total mintage 615,000 copies)

"Collectible" date presumably means it's the only date that historically sold for any "noticeable" premium to the metal content, not that collectors don't collect it.  Most common world gold of this era (or later) have/had little premium to the metal content, at least until collectors started paying higher premiums for labels on plastic holders.  It's only US gold coinage which is an outlier.

Were most of the 1900's melted?  Believed to be? Someone has to know something even if an estimate of how many, or else you can reach my inference.

I ask because I have never heard of any coin from this era with anywhere near this mintage being hard to buy, unless it happened.  Being a French coin, it should be readily available in high grade, unless it was melted in very high proportion. 

Most European coinage (at least from the larger population countries) subjectively dated after about 1775 isn't particularly scarce.  Most of it is (very) common.  Usually, it's going to be scarce because of an initially low mintage. Or it's a narrow scarcity, like a die variety, transition coin, or something like that.

On 12/8/2022 at 10:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

with only the 1898 Prototype and 1899 Matte blank commanding higher prices.

These aren't circulation strike coins either.  A prototype is a pattern and "made rare" or at least scarce.  The blank sounds like a type of error, though not always.  There are South Africa blank Ponds available, though these aren't particularly scarce.

Edited December 9, 2022 by World Colonial

[World Colonial]

On 11/23/2022 at 1:18 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

With the stock market down, NFTs and sports cards down, BitCoin and crypto imploding...it will be interesting to see if bullion and coins get some $$$.

The only time this seems to have happened was in the 70's.  More recently, gold has trended with other asset classes.

[World Colonial]

On 11/23/2022 at 1:18 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think coins and Saints have history and great stories interwoven into them, but I just don't know if today's generation will learn about them playing Call of Duty or Fortnight. 

The software running this site is terrible.  I tried to add this reply to my above post but couldn't find your comments.

I know you disagree with me, but the history to which you refer is nothing more than marketing.  This is true for practically any coin. 

Practically any coin is too generic where the supposed history has any actual connection.  The coin exists, sat in a cabinet for decades or longer until it might have made it into a TPG holder, and that's it.  Had nothing to do with anything that happened then or since, whether it circulated or not.

It's probably compelling as a marketing selling point to those who are already inclined to become collectors, but not anybody else.

If someone is interested in a (supposed) historical connection for a specific time and place, there are far cheaper options than some "investment" coin.  This is especially true for the most expensive US coinage generically.

With Saints, I have posted a couple of times that on one occasion, I discovered that most or all of St. Gaudens artwork is a lot cheaper than the most expensive Saints.  It's on either the Christie's or Sotheby's websites.

This tells anyone everything they need to know, if they will actually look at the subject impartially, which most coin collectors probably won't because it is contrary to their personal preference.

[zadok]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:38 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wow, that's alot of survivors...I guess mintage was even higher.

Any idea how many 100 Franc Roosters, which would be close to our 1 ounce coins ?

...almost all minted r survivors the coins virtually didnt circulate...impossible to assemble a complete circ set in say F-VF...i havent counted up the total mintages for sometime but prob 144 million....100 francs not roosters....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:28 AM, World Colonial said:

The only time this seems to have happened was in the 70's.  More recently, gold has trended with other asset classes.

I don't think they'll track those asset classes. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:46 AM, World Colonial said:

I know you disagree with me, but the history to which you refer is nothing more than marketing.  This is true for practically any coin. 

The history I am talking about is in the books and research that I have read or done.  It's certainly NOT on the label so it's not being used to market.  But I am admittedly unique in that regard. 

On 12/9/2022 at 9:46 AM, World Colonial said:

Practically any coin is too generic where the supposed history has any actual connection.  The coin exists, sat in a cabinet for decades or longer until it might have made it into a TPG holder, and that's it.  Had nothing to do with anything that happened then or since, whether it circulated or not.  It's probably compelling as a marketing selling point to those who are already inclined to become collectors, but not anybody else.  If someone is interested in a (supposed) historical connection for a specific time and place, there are far cheaper options than some "investment" coin.  This is especially true for the most expensive US coinage generically.  With Saints, I have posted a couple of times that on one occasion, I discovered that most or all of St. Gaudens artwork is a lot cheaper than the most expensive Saints.  It's on either the Christie's or Sotheby's websites.  This tells anyone everything they need to know, if they will actually look at the subject impartially, which most coin collectors probably won't because it is contrary to their personal preference.

That's one perspective.  But art and coins are not interchangeable so I don't think someone like me, hoping to eventually get my "artwork" in the form of an MCMVII HR, wants some painting for my wall.  I don't. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 12/9/2022 at 10:41 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The history I am talking about is in the books and research that I have read or done.  It's certainly NOT on the label so it's not being used to market.  But I am admittedly unique in that regard. 

I didn't say the "history" is on the label.  I also know what you are talking about, still almost never has anything to do with the coin.  Obviously, this marketing angle (if used) is not explicit, as then the claim would be exposed for the absurdity that it actually is.

The common (inferred) claim can be made for a few coins such as: 1902 South Africa veld pond struck during the second Anglo-Boer War, First Jewish Revolt (66-70 AD), 1861 CSA original half dollar, and commemoratives struck at the time of the event...see the difference?

For practically all other coinage, it's either irrelevant, exaggerated, or invented romanticized fiction.  (Every object has a history, but usually that's not what's being implicitly marketed.)

Anyone can make the same claim for many if not every coin.  As an example, the Kennedy half dollar.  The difference is no non-collector will buy it for financial reasons, but that doesn't negate the "history" associated with this coin.

Whether accurate or not, for the highest profile coinage, the prices and premiums are still (completely) disproportionate to the significance of supposed connected events.

On the PCGS forum, I took this position (mine) when debating the 1794 SP-66 dollar and 1933 DE when both came up for sale.  The non-collector doesn't care about any of the attributes on these two coins (or any others), other than to the extent it impacts the price.  That's what distinguishes collectors from non-collectors, which is a fact so many coin forum participants (and dealers) won't accept because it's contrary to what they want. 

If this minority collector belief was true, more wealthy non-collectors would have bought it.  Saints generically are somewhat different but that's because the premiums on most are much lower and there are a lot of gold buyers who buy different forms of gold.

On 12/9/2022 at 10:41 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's one perspective.  But art and coins are not interchangeable so I don't think someone like me, hoping to eventually get my "artwork" in the form of an MCMVII HR, wants some painting for my wall.  I don't.

Yes, but you are already a coin collector.  If you are referring to existing US coin collectors, your claim is valid.

If you are attributing it to anyone else (including coin collectors outside the US), it isn't unless they are buying it for "investment".  This is the only reason some Saints sell for more, because US coin collectors buy coins (usually not expensive art), and the coins are more liquid because it's gold there are more coin collectors.

The reason I used this as an example is because you're trying to claim historical appeal for this coinage as a reason to buy it.  St. Gaudens' artwork logically has at least as much "history" as any Saint.

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:38 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wow, that's alot of survivors...I guess mintage was even higher.

Any idea how many 100 Franc Roosters, which would be close to our 1 ounce coins ?

I do know there were 100 Franc coins, but none featured the Rooster. The one minted in 2000 (without a Rooster) reproduced just the obverse of the visage of Marianne and bore a wreath with "100 Francs 2000" in the center, "Republique Francaise" splayed across the top half, and "Liberte- Egalite-Fraternite" splayed across the bottom.  The gold was .920 fine, weighed 17 grams, was 31 mm wide, available in only Belle Epreuve [BE] or Proof condition, in an edition of only 846 copies.

Note:  100 Gold Francs were minted intermittently from 1855 on (.900 fine, 32.25 g, 35 mm width, through 1914 (extending the Genie, or Angel theme concurrently with the Roosters, through 1914.)

Interestingly (and I was unaware of this) the coin was downsized to the size and near-weight of the Rooster (.900 fine, 6.55 g*, 21 mm) and were minted intermittently in the 100 Franc denomination (1929, 1932, 1933, 1935 and 1936) for a grand total of only 13,791,116 pieces.  As I am unfamiliar with these series, I am unable to provide a clue as to their final disposition and the French Red Book (which features photos by Heritage) makes no mention of it though the pricing and grading runs higher as would be expected.

* This figure is not further defined. In the 20-franc gold rooster the weight of the gold is usually given as 0.1867 tr oz, or 5.805 gms of pure gold. The gross weight, with Cu alloy is usually cited as 6.45 gms.  If I am interpreting this correctly, the size and weight of the gold 100-franc pieces minted 1929-1936 were virtually indistinguishable from the size and minor weight difference of the gold Rooster series, 1899-1914.

Gratuitous postscript:  I can only hope this contribution to the body of knowledge as referred to by highly-esteemed member Ol'hoop has helped redeem myself in his eyes.  

[GoldFinger1969]

BATTLE OF THE MS-66 SAINTS: Can someone tell me why one of these coins went for $575 more than the other (about 20% more) with the same grade ? You even have the OGH going for less.

Only thing I can see is that the OGH coin appears to have some wear/rub on the eagle's underbelly.

https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...ble-Eagle-No-Motto-Wells-Fargo-PCGS-MS-66-OGH

https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...le-No-Motto-Wells-Fargo-Nevada-Gold-NGC-MS-66

Edited December 12, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

That

On 12/12/2022 at 12:17 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...le-No-Motto-Wells-Fargo-Nevada-Gold-NGC-MS-66

That's very strange....a completed auction no longer shows. 

Anyway, it was another 1908 NM WF Saint....MS-66.... but sold for about 20% more ($3,938) than the PCGS OGH.

I thought that was strange because an OGH is rarely overgraded but I do see that wear/rub on the reverese unless it's the holder.

Edited December 12, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

The coin is now back and you can compare again. 

[GoldFinger1969]

No-Bids:  Lots of Saint-Gaudens on GC getting no bids, appears to have picked up from 1-2 years ago when gold was higher and buyers maybe a bit less discriminating.  Not sure if GC keeps track of no-bids but would be interesting to numerically compare. 

I think MOST of these coins would have gotten bids at the stated offer price without any fees but I think the 10-12% bump made a difference with savvy buyers.  Even if the offer itself sans fees was too high, maybe just need to come down 5%, 10% tops via negotiation.  On Ebay, I see most Saints that go without bids off by closer to 20-25%.

All coins PCGS unless otherwise noted.

No bids for a 1927 MS-66+ @ $5,500 (coin would have been just over $6K with fees); somewhat surprising since a nice MS-67 can go for $17,000.......a 1927 MS-64 CAC didn't get bids at $2,250 (less surprising)...a 1924 MS-67 didn't get bids at $17,000 (not surprising since it's just under $19K with fees and the 1924 is still plentiful at the 67 grade 2nd to the 1908 NM)....a 1922 MS-63 and MS-64 each went begging at $2,000 and $2,300, respectively....a 1915-S no takers at $3,750....1908 WF NM OGH no bids at $3,750 and another at $3,600...a 1907 Arabic MS-65 no bids at $5,200. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

January 2023 Saint Sales (rounded off):   

A 1927 NGC MS-65 for $2,300

A 1911-S MS-64 CAC NGC for $3,030

A 1911-D MS-64 CAC NGC for $3,060

A 1911-D AU-55 (basically gold bullion ) for $2,045

A 1910 MS-63 for $2,250

A 1908 NM MS-63 for $2,060

A 1908 NM MS-66 NGC for $3,600 (1 bidder)

A 1908 NM MS-65 CAC for $2,880 (lots of bidders)

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Sad Day For Saints:  Today was a day I never experienced nor wanted to experience.

I had to sell one of my Saints.       

I didn't want to....but I was busy with our club's resumption (after 3 years) of our annual huge space forum and expo mid-month...3 years of Covid cancellations and it was pretty much 12-14 hour days from early last week through the early part of this week.  Net-Net, I couldn't scrounge up some PT consulting work or investment counseling and when I finally had time to see the status of my checking account -- thinking I was still close to $1,000 or so -- turned out I was OVERDRAWN and NEGATIVE !! 

Aside from screwing up my automatic payments that are going to have to re-hit automatically or be re-submitted manually, I needed cash -- and FAST. 

So....I made the difficult decision to part with my 1915-S MS-63 OGH that I picked up at FUN 2020.  A common coin but one I kinda liked despite the black specks.  OGH label nice to have (as I would find out).  I don't have too many Saints so parting with one was really tough but it was either this one or a 2018 AGE Proof that I also bought at FUN 2020.  Didn't want to sell my 1st purchase, my 1924 MS-65 or my other ones also common or my more valuable 1923-D.

Some Good News (for those long the coins already, as opposed to looking to buy now I guess ):  premiums for even common TPG Saints are strong.....the OGH helped too....I went to my LCS who always treats me fair, buying or selling.  He and his asst. looked up the price on some iPad and probably consulted the Grey Sheet or something with modern pricing.  I had paid only a slight premium to bullion back in 2020.....about $1,675 or so when gold was about that price (my premium paid, if any, was in the 3% less gold in the coin).

I got $2,300 for the coin today with gold listed on his chalk board at $1,980.  

Sadly, a nice profit never felt worse.  

Maybe I'll get a chance to buy it back in the future.........

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[Cat Bath]

Other than my "cold dead 20 box", everything else is expendable.

It's sometimes a nice way to prune a collection. 

[GoldFinger1969]

From HC on another thread:  Hot off the wire...Heritage Auctions Private Offerings, this week: 1907 $20. "High/Wire" NGC PF-67. Pop: 19/5. Current price: $232,500.  (NGC price guide: $205,000.)  FIVE graded finer!

Edited June 21, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

Recent Pricing Observation.....I notice alot more Saints on GC going without bids.  The opening reserve or minimum bid is too high.  I'd say by 10-20% in some cases, and that's BEFORE the GC commission gets tacked on.  I also see lots of CAC and "+" coins going too high because the expectation that they will be more valuable with a 1-grade increment is NOT being accepted by potential buyers who feel (probably correctly) that most coins eligible for an upgrade worth thousands of dollars have already been tried (and failed),.

A 1928 MS-66+ got no bids at $4,700....an MS-67 1928 Saint got no bids at $15,000 (way high, IMO)....a 1927 MS-66+ no bids at $4,250...a 1924 MS-66 Saint no bids at $3,400.

I'd say the opening reserves are about 10% too high and that's before the GC fee gets added on.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:22 PM, World Colonial said:

I believe the Rooster series is widely known among US collectors of any earlier (as in not "modern") world coinage.  The British Sovereign is by far the best known, but the Rooster is known along with others like the Swiss 10CHF and 20CHF.

For those who want to collect a series of non-US gold without breaking the bank, it's an affordable choice.

I didn't realize until a short time ago that there really weren't many foreign counterparts to the size of our Double Eagle coin, nearly 1 full ounce of gold.

Most other countries produced coins closer to Quarter or Half Eagles.  Even Eagle-size was rare.  Not aware of any regularly-produced foreign coin that approximated 1 full ounce of gold.

[Sandon]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:32 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Not aware of any regularly produced foreign coin that approximated 1 full ounce of gold.

   The Mexican 50 pesos (dated 1921-31 and 1944-47, KM #481) and similar but undenominated pieces dated 1943 (KM #482) contain 1.2057 troy oz. of .900 fine gold. The pieces dated 1947 are largely restrikes made as late as 2013, but the earlier dates are likely contemporary to the dates they bear.  I recall that certain earlier dates used to have premiums, but the NGC World Coin Price Guide now lists all dates at near their bullion value. Mexico ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS 50 Pesos KM 481 Prices & Values | NGC (ngccoin.com).

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:41 PM, Sandon said:

   The Mexican 50 pesos (dated 1921-31 and 1944-47, KM #481) and similar but undenominated pieces dated 1943 (KM #482) contain 1.2057 troy oz. of .900 fine gold. The pieces dated 1947 are largely restrikes made as late as 2013, but the earlier dates are likely contemporary to the dates they bear.  I recall that certain earlier dates used to have premiums, but the NGC World Coin Price Guide now lists all dates at near their bullion value. Mexico ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS 50 Pesos KM 481 Prices & Values | NGC (ngccoin.com).

Yup, I was thinking mostly of Europe....but good catch, Sandon. 

Is a "restrike" in your example they used original 1947 dies and just used them again 66 years later ?  If they did, was other newer technology used to give a much higher quality strike and nicer coin -- or did they use everything fixed to 1947 ?

You would think they would create a new coin/design, like new Libertads.  But the 1.2 ounce Pesos have been quoted in the BARRON'S gold price listings for decades, FWIW.  Might be popular with some collectors and/or Hispanics in the U.S.

[zadok]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:32 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I didn't realize until a short time ago that there really weren't many foreign counterparts to the size of our Double Eagle coin, nearly 1 full ounce of gold.

Most other countries produced coins closer to Quarter or Half Eagles.  Even Eagle-size was rare.  Not aware of any regularly-produced foreign coin that approximated 1 full ounce of gold.

...in case u mite wonder where all the roosters went, they were mia/kia in ww1....

[Sandon]

      According to the World Coin Price Guide (and the Standard Catalog of World Coins) upon which it is based, the 1947 Mexican 50 pesos had an original mintage of 309,000 pieces. An additional 3,975,654 pieces "most likely dated 1947" were struck between 1949 and 1972, and 473,900 more 1947 dated pieces were struck between 2000 and 2017.  Both the originals and the various restrikes were made at the Mexico City mint, presumably based on the original master dies or artwork.  I don't recall reading about any way to distinguish the originals from the various restrikes.  

   On two occasions, once about 15 years ago and just recently, I have met non-collectors who had single 50-peso pieces dated 1946, the second highest mintage date (1,588,000). In the earlier case, after I explained how much gold the coin contained and what it was worth, the owner took it to a coin dealer, who found it to be genuine and paid the owner a fair price based upon the price of gold at the time. The piece I recently saw appeared to be genuine as well.

   As I recall, for some years before 1975, when all U.S. restrictions on the ownership of gold ceased, it was legal to own foreign gold coins dated no later than 1959, so these 50-peso pieces could be held by U.S. citizens, while later bullion coins such as Krugerrands (first minted in and dated 1967) could not. This likely explains the large number of 1947 dated restrikes.   

[VKurtB]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:12 PM, Sandon said:

I don't recall reading about any way to distinguish the originals from the various restrikes.  

Uh oh, the importance of Roger’s recent opus regarding Isabella quarters may hang in the balance. 

[VKurtB]

On 4/21/2023 at 8:31 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Sad Day For Saints:  Today was a day I never experienced nor wanted to experience.

I had to sell one of my Saints.       

I didn't want to....but I was busy with our club's resumption (after 3 years) of our annual huge space forum and expo mid-month...3 years of Covid cancellations and it was pretty much 12-14 hour days from early last week through the early part of this week.  Net-Net, I couldn't scrounge up some PT consulting work or investment counseling and when I finally had time to see the status of my checking account -- thinking I was still close to $1,000 or so -- turned out I was OVERDRAWN and NEGATIVE !! 

Aside from screwing up my automatic payments that are going to have to re-hit automatically or be re-submitted manually, I needed cash -- and FAST. 

So....I made the difficult decision to part with my 1915-S MS-63 OGH that I picked up at FUN 2020.  A common coin but one I kinda liked despite the black specks.  OGH label nice to have (as I would find out).  I don't have too many Saints so parting with one was really tough but it was either this one or a 2018 AGE Proof that I also bought at FUN 2020.  Didn't want to sell my 1st purchase, my 1924 MS-65 or my other ones also common or my more valuable 1923-D.

Some Good News (for those long the coins already, as opposed to looking to buy now I guess ):  premiums for even common TPG Saints are strong.....the OGH helped too....I went to my LCS who always treats me fair, buying or selling.  He and his asst. looked up the price on some iPad and probably consulted the Grey Sheet or something with modern pricing.  I had paid only a slight premium to bullion back in 2020.....about $1,675 or so when gold was about that price (my premium paid, if any, was in the 3% less gold in the coin).

I got $2,300 for the coin today with gold listed on his chalk board at $1,980.  

Sadly, a nice profit never felt worse.  

Maybe I'll get a chance to buy it back in the future.........

 

I’ll bet that you do. The entire population of serious "by date and mintmark" collectors of $20 Saints could probably fit in a decent sized bus. Sorry, it's basically a Type Set series. In Europe, "normal" gold coins are 1/5 ounce. (0.1847)

Edited July 19, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:12 PM, Sandon said:

      According to the World Coin Price Guide (and the Standard Catalog of World Coins) upon which it is based, the 1947 Mexican 50 pesos had an original mintage of 309,000 pieces. An additional 3,975,654 pieces "most likely dated 1947" were struck between 1949 and 1972, and 473,900 more 1947 dated pieces were struck between 2000 and 2017.  Both the originals and the various restrikes were made at the Mexico City mint, presumably based on the original master dies or artwork.  I don't recall reading about any way to distinguish the originals from the various restrikes.  

   On two occasions, once about 15 years ago and just recently, I have met non-collectors who had single 50-peso pieces dated 1946, the second highest mintage date (1,588,000). In the earlier case, after I explained how much gold the coin contained and what it was worth, the owner took it to a coin dealer, who found it to be genuine and paid the owner a fair price based upon the price of gold at the time. The piece I recently saw appeared to be genuine as well.

   As I recall, for some years before 1975, when all U.S. restrictions on the ownership of gold ceased, it was legal to own foreign gold coins dated no later than 1959, so these 50-peso pieces could be held by U.S. citizens, while later bullion coins such as Krugerrands (first minted in and dated 1967) could not. This likely explains the large number of 1947 dated restrikes.   

...not restrikes but related as not being able to definitively ascertain where/when coins were struck n also in regards to Mexican gold...the US mint at Philadelphia struck 5 peso n 10 peso gold for Mexico in 1906 which r indistinguisable from those struck at the Mexico City mint...collectors of Mexican gold dont seem to care but collectors of foreign coins struck at US mints can not verify where their examples were struck....

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 7/18/2023 at 4:23 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Recent Pricing Observation.....I notice alot more Saints on GC going without bids.  The opening reserve or minimum bid is too high.  I'd say by 10-20% in some cases, and that's BEFORE the GC commission gets tacked on.  I also see lots of CAC and "+" coins going too high because the expectation that they will be more valuable with a 1-grade increment is NOT being accepted by potential buyers who feel (probably correctly) that most coins eligible for an upgrade worth thousands of dollars have already been tried (and failed),.

A 1928 MS-66+ got no bids at $4,700....an MS-67 1928 Saint got no bids at $15,000 (way high, IMO)....a 1927 MS-66+ no bids at $4,250...a 1924 MS-66 Saint no bids at $3,400.

I'd say the opening reserves are about 10% too high and that's before the GC fee gets added on.

Just saw this posted by Ian Russell, seems odd they would be buying at those prices if Saints aren't selling like they used to. 

GC is buying $20 Saints:

PCGS MS-66+.CAC - $5,600 each
PCGS MS-66 CAC - $4,800 each
PCGS/NGC MS-65+ CAC - $2,950 each
PCGS/NGC MS-65 CAC - $2,860 each

Quantities welcome.

[VKurtB]

On 7/19/2023 at 10:28 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Just saw this posted by Ian Russell, seems odd they would be buying at those prices if Saints aren't selling like they used to. 

GC is buying $20 Saints:

PCGS MS-66+.CAC - $5,600 each
PCGS MS-66 CAC - $4,800 each
PCGS/NGC MS-65+ CAC - $2,950 each
PCGS/NGC MS-65 CAC - $2,860 each

Quantities welcome.

Ever calculate the de facto "per milligram" price of a CAC green bean on a PCGS slab? I'll bet it's more than the gold coin beneath it.