Official Saint-Gaudens/Gold Coin Price Thread
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260 posts in this topic

On 7/5/2022 at 7:36 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Just saw something pending at HA... a MCMVII $20. High Relief, Flat Rim, MS66+ PCGS CAC, current bid 80K (99K w/bp) with eight more days to go.  (Am I back on track, or what?)  (thumbsu

That should cross 6-figures....Flat Rim & CAC.....maybe $120,000 - $150,000 ?

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Got something else for you fresh off the Kitco wire... "U.S. Mint gold bullion sales drop 76% in June year-over-year; silver demand down 69%" [In view of the outrageous xD comments made by a distinguished member, re gold and silver prices, reporting on-site from Rosemont, it looks like he got his wish!]  :roflmao:

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On 7/6/2022 at 10:04 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Got something else for you fresh off the Kitco wire... "U.S. Mint gold bullion sales drop 76% in June year-over-year; silver demand down 69%" [In view of the outrageous xD comments made by a distinguished member, re gold and silver prices, reporting on-site from Rosemont, it looks like he got his wish!]  :roflmao:

Probably because of the fall in stock and bond prices....the group that buys bullion is in the net worth categories that are most affected by the markets.  The super-rich don't regularly buy bullion...it's the upper middle-class, professionals, and "working rich" who are the most active buyers.

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On 7/8/2022 at 6:29 AM, Elite Collection said:

Simpson is selling his set of saints in the Heritage August sale! Here's his 27D: https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/double-eagles/coming-soon-pcgs-9187-/p/1348-12048.s

I will take your word for it, don't see anything publicly.  Is he selling the entire collection ?  Maybe his coin collecting days are over.

He's a savvy buyer/seller.....sure as heck fleeced ExxonMobil when he sold them his company for $40 BB !!! xD

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He's been selling part of his collection over the years. He recently decided to sell his saints. Almost 1/2 of his saints are listed in preview state. You can see the first one here: https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/a-written-description-will-be-available-soon/p/1348-12040.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Preview-ThisAuction-120115
Just click on the next one in the list to see the next ones.

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On 7/8/2022 at 10:21 AM, Elite Collection said:

He's been selling part of his collection over the years. He recently decided to sell his saints. Almost 1/2 of his saints are listed in preview state. You can see the first one here: https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/a-written-description-will-be-available-soon/p/1348-12040.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Preview-ThisAuction-120115
Just click on the next one in the list to see the next ones.

I guess besides yourself there will be other bidders since a top collection doesn't come up for sale that often.  It's not like me bidding on stuff from HA or GC that comes up every few weeks or even months.

Off the top of your head....does the Simpson Collection have any Top or Top 2/Top 3 Saints ?  I believe his 1907 UHR was ranked 3rd by CoinWeek's Saint guru years ago but you probably know that already. xD

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On 7/8/2022 at 6:29 AM, Elite Collection said:

Simpson is selling his set of saints in the Heritage August sale! 

Simpson had the best overall set I've ever seen. Unfortunately, many of his TrueViews have been taken down. A great loss and something that makes me very angry with PCGS.

The 16 top pops aren't enough to describe how many absolute monsters were in the Simpson set.

It's a set that had continuity and was carefully assembled by him over many years rather than throwing money at a dealer.

Here's what is left at the registry ATS. BTW...If you see a saint with four 6666 in a row, it's probably a Simpson. (until the new owner has it regraded)

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/20-gold-major-sets/st-gaudens-20-gold-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1907-1932/imagegallery/71312

Edited by Cat Bath
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Posted (edited)

RECENT SALES:  A 1927 MS-67 went for $20,000 with BP over at GC.....a 1925 MS-66 went for $4,000....a 1925 MS-66+ CAC went for $5,700....and in the bullion section, a pair of 1923 MS-61 NGC sold for about $2,050 - $2,100 which is about a 15% premium to the then-price of gold......a 1916-S MS-66+ NGC went for $12,500....a pair of 1914-S MS-65 NGC at just under $3,000 but another sold for just under $3,500 even though it looked about the same at 1st glance....some details coins like a 1911-S and 1908 NM could be had for a total cost just under $2,000. 

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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Heavy Hitters Corner:  Real big moves UP in trophy Saints the last few months. 

The MS-69 deemed "The Best One" from the 1908 No Motto Wells Hoard went for just under $287,000 (w/bp); the same coin sold for $95,000 back in 2005.

A 1927-D was sold for $4.4 MM.  This was the Dallas Bank-Simpson 1927-D (Simpson has another rated 67) which is believed to be the 3rd best.  Our friend EC has an MS-66+CAC.

A 1924-S sold for $930,000...remember, at one point decades ago this was believed to be the rarest of the Saint series.

EC, Half Dome, and a few others are dragging up all the trophy Saints.xD

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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[Aside:  I started to jot down the Top Classic Sets as compiled by D. L. HANSEN this past week when the announcent was made, but quickly ran out of scratch paper.  I know he has at least a dozen sets, some of which are virtually unsurpassable, ratings-wise--most notably, Lincoln Cents, (1909-1964) z100% complete, rated: 69.784--and a "complete" set of U.S. $20. Gold, with major varieties, circulation strikes (1850-1932) but I am curious to know what feelings you may have about it seeing as how this appears to be your area of expertise.]  

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Restore omission
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On 8/23/2021 at 3:24 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Now I need to find some good answers as to why the Mets offense stinks all year ! xD

On 8/23/2021 at 3:29 PM, RWB said:

Game tip #1: Go cheap on the manager and hope you're lucky; or, go cheap on the owner and give up.

Unfortunately, the Mets go cheap on everything, except what they charge for hot dogs and beer at their stadium. :grin:

About prices for Saints, when is PCGS going to realize that common date Saints are not selling at over $2,500 for sliders or BU grades, or over $3,000 for an MS63, and that bullion has dropped about $400/oz since earlier this year?

They adjusted their prices significantly upwards with lightning-fast knee-jerk like reactions when there was a serious price spike earlier this year and have been stuck there ever since (and not just for Saints). Are they afraid that if they now accept reality and lower prices it will look like egg on their face because NGC did not follow the knee-jerk leader? I don't even bother looking at their price guides anymore because they have become meaningless.

Edited by EagleRJO
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On 9/26/2022 at 5:04 PM, EagleRJO said:

Unfortunately, the Mets go cheap on everything, except what they charge for hot dogs and beer at their stadium.

Mets owner Steve Cohen has opened the checkbook this year, can't complain. xD   And I think the Mets are middle-of-the-pack in terms of food pricing.  Yankee Stadium much more expensive.

On 9/26/2022 at 5:04 PM, EagleRJO said:

About prices for Saints, when is PCGS going to realize that common date Saints are not selling at over $2,500 for sliders or BU grades, or over $3,000 for an MS63, and that bullion has dropped about $400/oz since earlier this year?  They adjusted their prices significantly upwards with lightning-fast knee-jerk like reactions when there was a serious price spike earlier this year and have been stuck there ever since (and not just for Saints). Are they afraid that if they now accept reality and lower prices it will look like egg on their face because NGC did not follow the knee-jerk leader? I don't even bother looking at their price guides anymore because they have become meaningless.

If you are going by their price table or their graphs....they tend to lag, both PCGS and NGC.  The graphs are GOOD for long-range pricing moves....but to get accurate pricing in the PRESENT (now or 6 months back), you need to check recent sales for actual auction prices.

What I'm confused about is why their official prices or the graphs are off but they sometimes have the most recent actual sales listed in another grid a few days/weeks after it happened.

FWIW.....common Saints in MS-65 are probably $2,200 give-or-take....low-60's should probably be $1,800 I would guess.  Those are off the top of my head but I doubt I'm off by more than $100. (thumbsu

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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@GoldFinger1969:

I cannot speak on Saints, but the fact of the matter is, with just a handful of fanatics like me, prices at auctions can be skewed all out of proportion.  And when that happens, a guy with a poker-face strolls by saying, "Hey, ain't'cha nevuh hoid 'bout Fai-yuh Mah-kit Val-yuh"?  :roflmao:

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Your numbers are not too far off for common date Saints (I just wish someone would let PCGS know). And as to what the Mets charge for a hot dog and a beer they recently jacked them to catch up with the Yankees and you now need a home equity loan to attend a game and have a hot dog wirh a few frosty ones. 😜 

You can list all the recent auction prices in the world, but if you don't adjust your values which a lot of sellers follow for retail prices (trust me it's like pulling teeth lately), then what is the point. You can talk about auction prices being down lately with them all day long and it's like trying to explain a counter point to World Colonial [duck]. 😉 

Edited by EagleRJO
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@EagleRJO:

Here's my admittedly rank-amateurish guy-in-the-street take on all this...

When prices rise, they do so with confidence, gusto and ambition.  When a lull is apparent, there is an across-the-board freeze. And if prices head south, as they invariably must, the industry follows suit begrudgingly citing factors like, "it takes a full six months for metals prices to reflect on prevailing values."  What these gentlemen are saying is, when the forces are arrayed against them, numismatic value saves the day.

In short, on the upswing? Go with the flow, with vigor!  On the downswing, revert to waffle mode: equivocate, at will.  :whistle:

Edited by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing: correct tense.
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PCGS and NGC took completely different approaches to the massive price spikes earlier this year, with PCGS ending up with egg on their face (no matter what they do at this point) and NGC coming out looking a lot more reasonable not going with a lightning-fast knee-jerk reaction to that spike.

Savvy dealers realize the current market conditions and are being flexible on prices or auction reserves, and even going with break-even to clear their inventory quickly which becomes even more important with market conditions falling. Less savvy dealers who hold out hope to get top of the spike PCGS values (plus a markup sometimes) will just end up with stale overpriced coins which just sit as prices continue to drop and their inventory continues to lose value.

Sellers stuck in the past with stale overpriced inventory are becoming easy to spot using NGC values and when the listing was posted as a guide, and I just immediately move on or just switch to bidding the coin on Great Collections if there is a reasonable reserve.

Edited by EagleRJO
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On 9/26/2022 at 10:56 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I cannot speak on Saints, but the fact of the matter is, with just a handful of fanatics like me, prices at auctions can be skewed all out of proportion.  

For rare coins and trophy coins -- as I detailed above -- yes, prices can move bigtime all at once.  That happened in August when Simpson put some of his trophy coins up for sale and EC and Half Dome went at it (EC and Half Dome....sounds like a couple of street toughs headed to a rumble !! xD).

For more liquid, common coins...prices are pretty stable and close to other FMV transactions.  I've seen multiple coins...same grade....both appearances close to one another.....and sometimes the price difference is $0 or $50 which on a $2,000 coin is nothing.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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