How much is my coin worth now? 2 2

[Henri Charriere]

I submit any of the following common coins presently in circulation, a cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half dollar or dollar.

Any claim I may have made regarding possible error or variety or subtler optical illusion is rejected outright and the inconsiderable amount of money I paid to have my essentially ordinary coin authenticated, graded, certified and encapsulated is returned to me at my expense.

Question:  what, for example, is my common cent, due to lack of knowledge and due diligence, now worth?

[Greenstang]

Sorry but we will need a full picture of each side of your coin before we can evaluate it.

[RWB]

1 hour ago, Quintus Arrius said:

"...lack of knowledge and due diligence..."

Your "lack of due diligence" coin is worth the same as in the beginning of your self deception.

[Henri Charriere]

@Greenstang & @RWB Perhaps I can make my point using plain language.  A coin which was, is presently and shall forevermore (barring environmental exposure) be condemned to a lifetime of servitude -- not unlike a Dalit at the bottom of India's much vaunted caste system -- as Face Value.

Why @Greenstang would insist on images of a coin that has already been certified for the novelty of it all, is beyond me.  The damage has already been done.  A perfectly worthless coin has been encapsulated; the fees paid in good faith have been squandered.  This is a regular occurrence at every TPGS on the planet. The submitter is not going to admit he made an expensive error and the graders, after recovering their composure, will give the sender what he paid for: an opinion (minus the uproarious laughter and comments made at the water cooler too crude to print here).

So, back on track, lack of due diligence, notwithstanding, what is the Fair Market Value of that common coin beyond face value, produced in ample quantity plucked from a hospitable and forgiving environment with no discernable damage other than normal wear for its age now that it resides in a costly encapsulation?

][Aside to @Oldhoopster: not for nothing but you're supposed to be helping me out with my sesquipedalian tendencies!

Postscript... the foregoing is a hypothetical.  I collect 🐓🐓🐓.  Remember?

Edited June 29, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Addition of postscript.

[Oldhoopster]

56 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

@Greenstang & @RWB Perhaps I can make my point using plain language.  A coin which was, is presently and shall forevermore (barring environmental exposure) be condemned to a lifetime of servitude -- not unlike a Dalit at the bottom of India's much vaunted caste system -- as Face Value.

Why @Greenstang would insist on images of a coin that has already been certified for the novelty of it all, is beyond me.  The damage has already been done.  A perfectly worthless coin has been encapsulated; the fees paid in good faith have been squandered.  This is a regular occurrence at every TPGS on the planet. The submitter is not going to admit he made an expensive error and the graders, after recovering their composure, will give the sender what he paid for: an opinion (minus the uproarious laughter and comments made at the water cooler too crude to print here).

So, back on track, lack of due diligence, notwithstanding, what is the Fair Market Value of that common coin beyond face value, produced in ample quantity plucked from a hospitable and forgiving environment with no discernable damage other than normal wear for its age now that it resides in a costly encapsulation?

][Aside to @Oldhoopster: not for nothing but you're supposed to be helping me out with my sesquipedalian tendencies!

Postscript... the foregoing is a hypothetical.  I collect 🐓🐓🐓.  Remember?

When I saw your first sentence, "Perhaps I can make my point using plain language." I thought this has to be good. 

You didn't disappoint. 

 

[Mr.Bill347]

Well Quintus, you’ve done it again with your not so subtle world wrecking not to be heard by us average Joes trying to believe in the hobby/sport/passtime 

Trying to convince ourselves that our hard earned money was well spent. 
I’m quite sure you don’t feel that way about your chickens !

give the rest of us a break and try not to be so darned vindictive to those wanting and enjoying their pursuit of happiness 

😊

peace, out…..

[James Zyskowski]

1.  

[Henri Charriere]

To the OP, ME!!!

Perhaps brutal honesty is called for.  Here goes...

What if the coin submitted not only fails to make the "hoped for" grade, but turns out to be essentially worthless, whatever the reason?

Now you have a coin, face value 5 cents, authenticated and certified and encapsulated in a fancy mausoleum, at comparatively considerable cost,... which is worth 5 cents.

As noted by my many detractors, I collect (see the photo 📷 @James Zyskowski was kind enough to provide, one post above) so none of this applies to me.

I am simply curious to know what "those wanting to enjoy their pursuit of happiness" do when faced with the prospect of selling an encapsulated coin whose Fair Market Value is FACE VALUE?

[Woods020]

21 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

To the OP, ME!!!

Perhaps brutal honesty is called for.  Here goes...

What if the coin submitted not only fails to make the "hoped for" grade, but turns out to be essentially worthless, whatever the reason?

Now you have a coin, face value 5 cents, authenticated and certified and encapsulated in a fancy mausoleum, at comparatively considerable cost,... which is worth 5 cents.

As noted by my many detractors, I collect (see the photo 📷 @James Zyskowski was kind enough to provide, one post above) so none of this applies to me.

I am simply curious to know what "those wanting to enjoy their pursuit of happiness" do when faced with the prospect of selling an encapsulated coin whose Fair Market Value is FACE VALUE?

I completely fail to see the point of this entire post. The feedback here given to newbies seeking advice is consistently slow down, don’t rush to grade, if it isn’t worth $150 (depending on who says it) don’t grade, learn before you grade……..  That advice is given to prevent people from grading coins not worth it. 

If someone was foolish and made the submission the market value would be face value or what someone wanted to give you. There are lowball registries where people specifically collect low grade certified coins. 
 

But I fail to see any value in this discussion?? What is your point? It’s not as if we don’t work to prevent someone from doing what you are implying and the point is made multiple times a day in various inquiries. 

[EdG_Ohio]

@Quintus Arrius ... being a person who has had the displeasure of doing such a act and releasing funds to something that utterly fell flat on it's face my only recourse was to accept my sheer ignorance of coins and realize that the $450 and subsequent fees from the TPG was a hard lesson and it's value at best $17 and that coin waiting in line for the firing squad ...literally.
        Another occasion was a 4 digit $$ coin that was purchased under the pretense that it's value was greater and upon evaluation at best $125, thankfully the seller admitted the coin faults and reimburse me. Although these aren't example of a submitted coin being found only worth face value I think the ratio is close enough for comparison.
For me it's been about realizing my ignorance of coins and their monetary value. I have some coins/tokens that I'm sure I paid a bit extra for but those were ones I felt a more "personal" connection with and the cost was a nonissue. I recently posted a few coins to hopefully start some sort of conversation but as always it turns into a ...you got screwed, not worth it, don't send in, looks fake, looks cleaned, awesome, lucky dog....etc. People say...Buy a slabbed coin and you won't get screwed but what do I learn from that ? Other than 2 groups of people (seller/TPG) made money off of my purchase. I didn't join NGC and PCGS for people to point and go..."Buy that, you won't get screwed". I came here to attempt to learn and at times it falls short.
...well, I just noticed a rant forming so I'll stop.
To answer question directly: It's worth is...A Hard lesson & at times a costly lesson and a reminder to slow down, get advise and research for the future ones.

Thanks for looking.

 

[Conder101]

7 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

the inconsiderable amount of money I paid to have my essentially ordinary coin authenticated, graded, certified and encapsulated is returned to me at my expense.

First the fees would NOT be returned.

So now you would have encapsulated, certified coins, that are worth....face value.

[Sharann]

My  - - 

I, personally, just took his post to be directed at people who come here trolling and wasting everyone's time. Which is essentially what he was doing in his own fancy QA way.  As well as telling them what they are told each and every time they do such... Send it in if you want, but it is gonna cost you and the coin isn't gonna be worth anymore just because it is slabbed. 

That was my take on it, but that is just my . I am super happy that, in my absence, things haven't changed. 😉 I love being a part of a "family" whose members have such diverse thoughts. It can only make one wiser. 

[Henri Charriere]

@EdG_Ohio I am deeply disappointed that some members saw no value in considering a scenario that I suspect is common, in the absence of hard data indicating otherwise, and that those on the punishing, receiving end, understandably, would not want to admit much less discuss publicly.

Seeing as how you are the first, and likely not the last, person to answer this painful question directly, I will expect that lurkers reluctant to speak up now will experience instant recall when that sure-shot turns out to be a long-shot and the results they assured us they would share with the community no longer becomes advisable.  I commend you for summoning the courage to speak up on a topic the silent majority instinctively recognized but for various reasons refuses to acknowledge.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Quintus Arrius
Missing letter.

[GBrad]

I'd have to say that deciding the value of some coins is frankly floccinaucinihilipilification.  However, I am honestly beginning to think that this post is agathokakological with all of the sesquipedalian.  Just my take........

[JT2]

QA  I think that one is a  Snuffleupagus  you may want to send it to CAC and QA as  when done stick it on ebay as RARE one of a kind for 5 million dollars  well.....

[Alex in PA.]

8 hours ago, Sharann said:

things haven't changed.

They never do here in Sleepy Hollow.  

[Mr.Bill347]

Ok Quintus, I get your point and your effort to prevent the pain people cause themselves when submitting face value coins for grading and then finding out it wasn’t worth it. I suspect most numismatist individuals have experienced this a few times. I got burned by a counterfeit Morgan and that in and of itself taught me a valuable lesson. Here’s the thing though. We should not be too critical of someone’s idea of value in that “to each his own”. I understand your point Quintus and value your opinions. Always succinct and brutally honest.

I encourage anyone to submit coins for those opinions. That’s how one learns. If you do, please submit photos of both sides of the coin and please Ask a question. Pictures with no question and questions with no pictures are of little value to anyone.

QA, sorry if I offended you in previous posts

 

[VKurtB]

Our hosts have now encapsulated 50 million coins. I find that sort of sad. I don’t believe that there are 50 million coins in existence that are WORTH encapsulation. TPGS firms formerly rejected huge swaths of the market completely. Now they figure, “If they’re stupid enough to pay us for it…”

[Mr.Bill347]

I wonder how many would be graded if the major coin sharks out there weren’t submitting. I hear the coin guy talking of buying skids on monster boxes. They bulk grade them all, and the 10% that come back less than 70 they sell and still make a killing. Of course, if that happened, the TPGs would go broke. There needs to be an average Joe grading tier, but, alas, wouldn’t everybody claim that? 😂 

[VKurtB]

57 minutes ago, Mr.Bill347 said:

I wonder how many would be graded if the major coin sharks out there weren’t submitting. I hear the coin guy talking of buying skids on monster boxes. They bulk grade them all, and the 10% that come back less than 70 they sell and still make a killing. Of course, if that happened, the TPGs would go broke. There needs to be an average Joe grading tier, but, alas, wouldn’t everybody claim that? 😂 

The wholesale sector, whose dealers keep getting named "Dealer of the Year", and similar accolades, generate the cash flow that makes TPGS firms possible, and things like ANA shows possible with their sponsorships. I am always fully aware where all that cash comes from - the poor schmuck beginners who are sold a bill of goods that graded bullion means anything. It doesn't. It never will. They play unwary new collectors for suckers.

Edited July 2, 2021 by VKurtB

[James Zyskowski]

2thoughts.  When I returned to collecting a little while back I noticed that slabbed coins were cheap and a way to sorta guarantee the grade ( better than my old eyes could do)Silly or not it provided some comfort   eBay provided some degree of safety and confidence when buying on their platform and access to a gigantic world of learning and schooling for cheap.  Quest for more knowledge led to here. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 6/30/2021 at 10:12 AM, VKurtB said:

Our hosts have now encapsulated 50 million coins.

12+ million of which are ASEs. 

[J P M]

9 hours ago, VKurtB said:

The wholesale sector, whose dealers keep getting named "Dealer of the Year", and similar accolades, generate the cash flow that makes TPGS firms possible, and things like ANA shows possible with their sponsorships. I am always fully aware where all that cash comes from - the poor schmuck beginners who are sold a bill of goods that graded bullion means anything. It doesn't. It never will. They play unwary new collectors for suckers.

I agree with you to a point. I also have bought a slab ASE MS 70 DCAM and a ASE MS 70 2011 25th Anniversary coin. But I only paid $20 each, over the retail price of the bare coin. So if you shop around a bit it can be a savings over sending a bare coin in yourself for grading. The big question is will they be worth more money in the years to come????Perhaps not Who's to say what items will be worth .I should have also kept my cherry 1957 Chevy and my 65 Impala SS and my 72 Dodge Dart ????????

[Woods020]

1 hour ago, J P Mashoke said:

I agree with you to a point. I also have bought a slab ASE MS 70 DCAM and a ASE MS 70 2011 25th Anniversary coin. But I only paid $20 each, over the retail price of the bare coin. So if you shop around a bit it can be a savings over sending a bare coin in yourself for grading. The big question is will they be worth more money in the years to come????Perhaps not Who's to say what items will be worth .I should have also kept my cherry 1957 Chevy and my 65 Impala SS and my 72 Dodge Dart ????????

The problem is theoretically the Slab adds no value. This is debatable as far as in reality would a slabbed coin sell for more. But the old adage is buy the coin not the slab. Also a lot of collectors feel slabbing a modern proof, especially bullion, is a waste of time and money. The coin in the original packaging is sufficient and the difference between 69/70 is almost indiscernible. 
 

Im summary there are many arguments that you overpaid by $20 for the coin you bought if you paid $20 over retail. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/30/2021 at 10:12 AM, VKurtB said:

Our hosts have now encapsulated 50 million coins. I find that sort of sad. I don’t believe that there are 50 million coins in existence that are WORTH encapsulation. TPGS firms formerly rejected huge swaths of the market completely. Now they figure, “If they’re stupid enough to pay us for it…”

Why are the certification numbering systems, on both sides of the aisle, state secrets. @Conder101 as I recall, responded they are not consecutively issued, or something like that, but he was unable to elaborate. All my 🐓🐔🐓 lie within the upper 30 to lower 40 million range, whether they were graded here or abroad. Ditto P---.

[VKurtB]

13 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Why are the certification numbering systems, on both sides of the aisle, state secrets. @Conder101 as I recall, responded they are not consecutively issued, or something like that, but he was unable to elaborate. All my 🐓🐔🐓 lie within the upper 30 to lower 40 million range, whether they were graded here or abroad. Ditto P---.

At NGC the number is merely the submission form number, and they can be almost anything. The three digits after the hyphen is the line number on that form. If you submit in person at major shows, my almost sole way, you get the run of numbers on the forms in their show kit.

Edited July 2, 2021 by VKurtB

[RWB]

Businesses have no obligation to make anything public, and only very little if they are publicly traded corporations.

Government, on the contrary, has voluminous disclosure requirements - it comes with a democracy.

[J P M]

4 hours ago, Woods020 said:

The problem is theoretically the Slab adds no value. This is debatable as far as in reality would a slabbed coin sell for more. But the old adage is buy the coin not the slab. Also a lot of collectors feel slabbing a modern proof, especially bullion, is a waste of time and money. The coin in the original packaging is sufficient and the difference between 69/70 is almost indiscernible. 
 

Im summary there are many arguments that you overpaid by $20 for the coin you bought if you paid $20 over retail. 

Good Point Woods. I sure hope a grade makes a difference in Morgan's because I have been buying slabs only lately.  Now I bought all my ASE's from 1986 to 2021 off the shelf so I don't have any boxes LoL , Yes they are nice  I hand picked them .But I don't think any dealer would say, Oh ya that  unslabed  ASE is a MS70 for sure I will give you full price for that with my luck I will be lucky to get market price for ASE's down the road . But Morgan is still my favorite girl at heart.

[Woods020]

14 minutes ago, J P Mashoke said:

Good Point Woods. I sure hope a grade makes a difference in Morgan's because I have been buying slabs only lately.  Now I bought all my ASE's from 1986 to 2021 off the shelf so I don't have any boxes LoL , Yes they are nice  I hand picked them .But I don't think any dealer would say, Oh ya that  unslabed  ASE is a MS70 for sure I will give you full price for that with my luck I will be lucky to get market price for ASE's down the road . But Morgan is still my favorite girl at heart.

The sky is the limit with Morgans. Definitely many of them worth the cost and effort of slabbing. More than that not worth it. Morgans can be more than a lifetime of collecting. Whether you collect VAMs or just try to complete a set, especially including proofs, it’s enough to keep anyone busy and broke haha. 

[Kevin Simpson]

Thanks for all of you input with this one. I'm certainly going top hang on to it. By the sounds of it, in a few years it may be worth something to someone. Maybe sooner, who knows. Thanks again It's fun finding something different for sure.