Conder Collectors - Post Your Images 3 3

[Yarm]

Cool Indian!

 

Da Bull, Herefordshire 3, NGC 63BN.

 

 

 

[CyberspaceVoid]

Got to love that bull. Nice one, Yarm

[Hard Times]

 

 

wots dis mate? Yer jumpin inta de olde stuf ayre ye, ye scurvy dawg?

[Hard Times]

Well I cracked out some of my Conders and here is one that upgraded:

 

Before

 

 

After - I thought it was undergraded for NGC grading standards at least, I guess I was correct.

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

[brg5658]

I couldn't resist picking this one up for the price! I'll buy MS graded Conders (even those minted by the ton) for $90 all day long. There is a bit of weakness to the strike on the obverse lower right (and the corresponding reverse upper right). I'm guessing it's due to a slightly thin area of the flan. Lots of red left on the reverse.

 

 

[Hard Times]

Why we like Pidcock's - abit of history in a newspaper clip from the 1790's:

 

 

And a Rhino/Elephant Pidcock's, not my best image but wanted to post with the clipping above. Very different luster and toning on each side.

 

Best, HT

 

 

[Hard Times]

A nice North Wales Druid, the cypher is 'RNG' (the issuer) as opposed to the PMC (Parys Mine Company) on the Anglesey Druid tokens. DH doesn't know who RNG was on the North Wales Druids of 1793 - has this been found out since and does anyone here know?

 

Best, HT

 

[Hard Times]

This token was payable only in Newgate PRISON, the temporary residence of Messrs Symonds, Winterbotham, Ridgway & Holt in 1794 and 1795. These gentlemen were somehow responsible for the manufacture of numerous common commercial tokens from behind bars!* Obviously, no redemption at Newgate was possible but these tokens did circulate widely. Good protest tokens for sure.

 

Per Dalton & Hamer, briefly...

 

• Symonds was publisher of the 'Jockey Club' and the 'Second Part of The Rights of Man.'

• James Ridgway was convicted of the same offenses as Symonds.

• Winterbotham was a dissenting minister convicted for preaching two seditious discourses.

• Daniel Holt, printer of the Newark Herald, for selling some of Paine's writings.

 

Wikipedia-Newgate Prison

 

 

* Just kidding - this token and its siblings were manufactured by Kempson

 

 

Edited June 2, 2013 by Hard Times

[HiHoAudio]

Beautiful Pidcocks 416b with probably the nicest rhino I have ever seen. Images are very good too.

 

Wish it was mine,

[Yarm]

I'd like to own a MS67PL Conder token but hadn't seen one til now (or have I)?

 

Ebay MS67PL! Conder token

 

 

 

[Conder101]

Just off hand I would so no.

[brg5658]

I'd like to own a MS67PL Conder token but hadn't seen one til now (or have I)?

 

Ebay MS67PL! Conder token

 

 

It's funny you bring this example up Bob. I have looked at the pictures of that piece a lot since it was posted a few days ago, and I can't fathom how it received that grade. To my eye, I swear that I can see lacquer on it, but maybe I'm just seeing things.

 

I have purchased several pieces from this seller over the past few months, and I will say that their ability to photograph the coins is pretty bad. ALL of the pieces I have received looked way better in hand than the pictures in the auction. But, I have a pretty good eye for "interpretation" of bad eBay pictures. That being said, my eyes can't quite figure out how this one would get to the MS67BN PL level.

 

What are your thoughts Bob? Others?

 

-Brandon

[BROADSTRUCK]

I'd like to own a MS67PL Conder token but hadn't seen one til now (or have I)?

 

Ebay MS67PL! Conder token

 

 

It's funny you bring this example up Bob. I have looked at the pictures of that piece a lot since it was posted a few days ago, and I can't fathom how it received that grade. To my eye, I swear that I can see lacquer on it, but maybe I'm just seeing things.

 

I have purchased several pieces from this seller over the past few months, and I will say that their ability to photograph the coins is pretty bad. ALL of the pieces I have received looked way better in hand than the pictures in the auction. But, I have a pretty good eye for "interpretation" of bad eBay pictures. That being said, my eyes can't quite figure out how this one would get to the MS67BN PL level.

 

What are your thoughts Bob? Others?

 

-Brandon

 

I've also been watching this seller for well over a year and all I can say is he's had some horrific looking exonumia in high graded holders. The variety which I recently purchased off you brg5658 in a 63 holder far out shined the sellers 66 which I personally feel should have been in a 62 holder. I personally haven't purchased from this seller to date but have seen a good amount of his post sale items with 2 dealers at shows. Viewing them in hand the first thought that normally comes to mind = ugh!

[BROADSTRUCK]

 

wots dis mate? Yer jumpin inta de olde stuf ayre ye, ye scurvy dawg?

 

 

Not to worry HT I normally only pick up these tokens if they tie into U.S. history. I was eying this one for about 2 years before it became available as I also collect coin dealer store cards. So this Spence had going for it for me with the full coin dealer reverse instead of just dealer in coins on the edge along with an American Indian on the obverse.

[brg5658]

I'd like to own a MS67PL Conder token but hadn't seen one til now (or have I)?

 

Ebay MS67PL! Conder token

 

 

It's funny you bring this example up Bob. I have looked at the pictures of that piece a lot since it was posted a few days ago, and I can't fathom how it received that grade. To my eye, I swear that I can see lacquer on it, but maybe I'm just seeing things.

 

I have purchased several pieces from this seller over the past few months, and I will say that their ability to photograph the coins is pretty bad. ALL of the pieces I have received looked way better in hand than the pictures in the auction. But, I have a pretty good eye for "interpretation" of bad eBay pictures. That being said, my eyes can't quite figure out how this one would get to the MS67BN PL level.

 

What are your thoughts Bob? Others?

 

-Brandon

 

I've also been watching this seller for well over a year and all I can say is he's had some horrific looking exonumia in high graded holders. The variety which I recently purchased off you brg5658 in a 63 holder far out shined the sellers 66 which I personally feel should have been in a 62 holder. I personally haven't purchased from this seller to date but have seen a good amount of his post sale items with 2 dealers at shows. Viewing them in hand the first thought that normally comes to mind = ugh!

 

I'd have to agree with you on this count. I have been very picky on which of this sellers tokens I have bid on. I won't touch that MS67BN PL token; to me it just looks funny (and over graded by 2 or more points).

[BROADSTRUCK]

I'd have to agree with you on this count. I have been very picky on which of this sellers tokens I have bid on. I won't touch that MS67BN PL token; to me it just looks funny (and over graded by 2 or more points).

 

I'll go 3 points as IMHO just a couple years ago that's something that would have landed in a MS64 holder.

[HiHoAudio]

Looks MS62 to me.

[brg5658]

Well, someone thought it was worth almost $500! Good grief, I think they bought the holder on this one, not the token.

 

To each his/her own.

 

[Conder101]

At least they got the attribution right.

 

 

Here is one I just purchased out of the Goldberg Pre-Long Beach sale last weekend. I'm not quite sure why.

 

 

They had it listed as an Essex 3 which of course it isn't. The Essex 3 is listed as Rare. Over the past decade I've seen between two and three dozen Essex 3's up for sale, and with the exception of one piece every single one of them was an Essex 4. Just like this one. This piece will be a slight upgrade for my previous coin. not sure why I paid what I did for just a small upgrade.

[brg5658]

Conder101, that's a lovely example!

[Yarm]

BRG was nice enough to point out the first Conder token he's seen that was slabbed by PCGS

(other than the US related ones which I've studiously ignored).

 

Somerset 50

 

Putting aside the BIN, here's a few observations on this sample of one.

 

-The camel is on the obverse not the India house if you follow D&H. I hope PCGS has one.

 

-World coins apparently are graded with the "Secure" service (and fee) regardless of value.

I'm still not sure what "Secure" gets me as a buyer of such an item.

 

-Although the edge is visible in the pronged slab, there is no indication on the slab of the edge

(and none in the Ebay listing either) so who knows if the attribution is correct.

For fun, I've sent a note to the seller asking about the edge.

 

-A nice plus for PCGS would be if they started to include non-US Conders in their population report

(but I couldn't find the PCGS number for this Conder in the online report.) Here's what comes up

for the tokens' cert verification. I'm lost.

27541545 cert verification

 

-Coming from Austria. Submitted and graded at one of the European centers perhaps?

 

According to the seller of the PCGS Somerset 50, the edge reads "PAYABLE BY * M. LAMBE & SON"

as expected for a Somerset 50. I hope I didn't raise unrealistic hopes that I'd pay $298 for it.

 

Edited June 15, 2013 by yarm

[Conder101]

Make sure you tell us what the edge is. Lots of possibilities for this coin, including the "pay one penny" edge. The D&H 8 one penny token used the same dies, just on a thicker planchet. And there is one subvarity of the penny and one of the halfpenny that each have plain edges. Only way to tell them apart is by weight and planchet thickness.

[brg5658]

The cert verification just showed up today...but, strangely, the PCGS website lists it as being the Norfolk DH-19?? WTH is going on over there? I guess they are still working out the kinks?

 

 

[Yarm]

Got any Conders where the obverse and reverse have very different toning? Here's one.

 

Edited June 15, 2013 by yarm

[Hard Times]

That is a yarmalicious Conder! (thumbs u

[Conder101]

WTH is going on over there?

Very simple, they don't know what they are doing.

[brg5658]

I wanted an example of a druid token, so I got this one from Bill McKivor. I'm very happy with it.

 

[Hard Times]

No horse?

 

Very nice nevertheless!

 

Best, HT

[brg5658]

No horse?

 

Very nice nevertheless!

 

Best, HT

 

HAHA, nope. I wanted a type-example of the Druid.

[Gallienus]

 

This is my Condor, I'm looking for an unc one of these instead of just an AU though.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Gallienus