Conder Collectors - Post Your Images 3 3

[Conder101]

I've gotten about a third of the way through the listings so and I'm impressed. Only twp misattributions so far and both of them on raw coins. NGC hasn't gotten one wrong yet. last time I saw a collection like this being sold NGC was running between 10 and 15% misattributed. They've tightened up nicely.

 

Halfway through now, still no NGC errors, but two lots of uncertified Lancashires that are seriously messed up. One with the of six wrong and one with two of six wrong.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Conder101

[Hard Times]

PCGS holder.....

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[brg5658]

I made it through the nearly 1,000 lots in the Baldwin's auction last night also...coupled with the Griffiths remainder (Wales) in the DNW sale, there are three rather large auctions all within 3 days.

 

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HT, nice DH-1037.

 

I have only purchased one PCGS graded Conder so far -- I think they're still in a fairly steep learning curve. It also annoys me that they don't put any information about the edge lettering on the holder. I certainly don't trust that they always get the DH number right, so at least knowing some of the edge text (like NGC does) would be nice.

[Hard Times]

This one is of the 'specious' variety. R.C. Bell defines one subvariety of specious tokens as those that were stuck for collectors with fictitious buisnesses, names etc. They cost more than their face value to make, the goal was to seed these to collectors of the day with works of art as they built their token sets. Some made it to circulation. This one was allegedly for G Bennett of Rye in Sussex, a grocer. An earlier author thought it to be genuine but Bell believes it to be produced by Skidmore for direct sale to collectors.

 

Only 30 were minted, in 1796 - the obverse die broke pdq. How many are extant today? Probably less.

 

On the obverse is a pair of scales above a tea chest, on either side is a sugar loaf. The cypher for GB is in the center of the reverse. Interestingly, there is one in the Baldwin's action coming up, which has been sitting in their cabinet for over a half century with everything else they are auctioning.

 

You see 3 bright spots on the obverse which are reflections of the 3 lights used to image. This is because the fields are convex up like the Mint's new baseball coin. The reverse has flat fields and was imaged with identical lighting set up. I can't help wonder if the convex bulging to the center led to rapid die deterioration. Well with only 30 struck, it is not surprising that the strike is excellent. The fields on the obverse are also prooflike or at least very close to PL, while on the reverse look standard MS.

 

The Balwins's offering does not appear to be as nice as this one, but when less than 31 exist, does that matter?

 

Best, HT

 

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[Conder101]

List of errors in the Heritage sale. (I assume the pictures are in the same order as the variety listings.)

 

Lot 15113 the Hampshire 95 is actually a Hamp 94

Lot 15146 six coin lot of Lancashire listed as 128,129,130,131, 132, and 134. The pictures of the lots are in order 128, 129, 133, 133, 132, and 129

Lot 15152 six Lancashires listed as 29e, 39, 41, 43, 44a, and 54. The 39 is actually a 41.

Lot 15213 five Middlesex listed as 351, 353, 354, 357a and 358a . The pictures are in order 351, 353, 354, 354, and 351.

Lot 15249, attributions are right but the pictures are out of order.

Lot 15258 Listed as Middlesex 475, this is Middlesex 477 (Darn there are only a half dozen or so 475's known.)

These are all raw coins

 

Then there are the only two NGC errors (Congratulations NGC, the last time I checked out a large collection of NGC slabbed Conders the error rate was running between 10 and 15%. You have gotten a lot better.)

Lot 15311 NGC lists as Middlesex 778a it is actually 783a. Heritage does point this error out in the cataloging.

Lot 15312 NGC lists as Middlesex 783a, it is actually 778a, Heritage does NOT point out this error in the catalog. Obviously NGC got the labels on these last two slabs reversed.

 

 

HiHo, I sent you a PM.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Conder101

[HiHoAudio]

Agreed that NGC has gotten much better at correctly identifying Conder tokens, but if you have a copy of the D&H reference and the time it's not exactly rocket science.

 

Conder, I replied to your PM, sorry I was late but my mom passed on 9/16 (her birthday at the age of 90) and I have been a wreck.

 

 

 

[Yarm]

I was following the enthusiastic bidding for Pidcock tokens in the Marshall I sale at Heritage but blinked when I saw the results for Middlesex 424, Lot 15234. Is this one of those hidden or misattributed rarities or just an example of auction fever?

 

Midd 424

 

 

[HiHoAudio]

Yarm, I believe Lot 15234 was a battle between two or three collectors with deep pockets. I was out at $500 and that was a stretch for me. Apparently everyone wants the Kangaroo type, and this was an especially nice one.

 

I am however delighted to have won the same token (D&H-424) that was buried in lot 15249. Granted it looks like it was harshly cleaned with a Brillo pad and then dragged backwards through a hedge but it's genuine (I hope) and it's mine. Any Pidcock collector worth his salt has the Tiger and the Kangaroo. I have finally joined that club.

 

I also won the MS62 Pidcock 416a which I needed. That was the only bargain to be had as I see it. I made a spreadsheet and the 24 Pidcock tokens plus the two uncertified lots and one Spence token totaled $8520.

 

$8520. Bring me my brown trousers!

 

[Conder101]

I am however delighted to have won the same token (D&H-424) that was buried in lot 15249

So YOU were the one that out bid me! I was the underbidder on that lot, and after the same token.

[Conder101]

Any Pidcock collector worth his salt has the Tiger and the Kangaroo. I have finally joined that club.

I have both as well, The Tiger on D&H 418 and the Kangaroo on 430 and 456. I now have examples of all the dies (but not all the combinations) except the Crane.

 

Hey there's a crane in part 2 of the Marshall sale! A Pelican too in the farthings and it looks like I don't have that one either..

Edited October 8, 2014 by Conder101

[brg5658]

I picked up these two in the Marshall sale, part 1.

 

 

[Yarm]

From the recent Baldwin's "basement" sale, Yorkshire 1 by Skidmore. Long-term storage with the castle side down may explain the different toning on the obverse and reverse.

 

 

Bolton Castle

 

 

 

[coinsarefun]

That is sooooooo cool yarm!!!

 

 

 

[Yarm]

I've been working my way through Jon Lusk's recent book. Although my focus is not on genuine trade tokens, it's nice to have a fresh look at the topic (along with great photos)!

 

 

[brg5658]

John Lusk's new book is a great one. I worked through it 2 full times back when it was released earlier this year, and it's a joy to look at and read. Some interesting stories, and his write-up about and execution of edge lettering photos is superb!

 

(thumbs u

[Hard Times]

ANA pickups from Chicago - did not want to break the set, obtained from Gary Groll. Both graded MS65RB.

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[Hard Times]

John Lusk's new book is a great one. I worked through it 2 full times back when it was released earlier this year, and it's a joy to look at and read. Some interesting stories, and his write-up about and execution of edge lettering photos is superb!

 

(thumbs u

 

Have not started reading it yet, got a personally signed copy from John at ANA. Look forward to it, he put 10 years of work into this book, many trips to England to sleuth out answers about the tokens.

 

Best, HT

[farthing]

Received my two lots from the recent Baldwin's sale, both are brilliant and more red in hand.

 

Middlesex Clerkenwell D&H 147 - Addington Palace

 

 

Middlesex Clerkenwell D&H 155 - The House of Lords

 

[Yarm]

Hard Times-That is an interesting pair! Can there be a Die State III?

 

Farthing- Nice pieces! So far, you're only the third US collector who I've noticed has posted Baldwin's basement purchases.

[Hard Times]

Hard Times-That is an interesting pair! Can there be a Die State III?

 

Farthing- Nice pieces! So far, you're only the third US collector who I've noticed has posted Baldwin's basement purchases.

 

Yarm that is a good question - Gary Groll told me that the latest Baldwin's sale (Auction 92, 9/14) he had catalogued had additional die states. Lots 126-130 have the same obverse with shattered die, it looks like what he called Die State II for my token is the latest die state, the Die State I is earlier than some of those shown in the Baldwin's sale.

 

Best, HT

[Hard Times]

Here is another Groll pick up from ANA, very different toning on the obverse and reverse:

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[Yarm]

I noticed the Yorkshire 13d, Beverley pawn broker token in Marshall 2 as one that I had been offered before. There's some oddness here.

 

Yorkshire 13d

 

1) Notwithstanding Heritage's description below, the token was struck on a Foundling Fields halfpenny, probably Midd 305,

with the lettering clear on both sides. I like my MS65's a bit "cleaner" and without an inked collector number.

 

"Yorkshire. Beverley 1/2 Penny Token 1797 MS65 Brown NGC, DH-13d. E: \\\. Struck over an earlier anti-slavery type..."

 

2) Jon Lusk's system for designating a Conder token as a Genuine Trade Token has swept in Yorkshire 13 (barely),

this despite a disqualifying condition "Not made in bulk" if less than 480 halfpenny tokens were produced. I'll take the under.

 

3) D&H includes several RRR edge varieties for Yorkshire 13 with the notation that "These were struck over other tokens and,

in many cases show portions of the old inscription". So, a Yorkshire 13 token struck over a Foundling Fields token with milled edge

becomes the RRR Yorkshire 13d with milled edge but a Yorkshire 13 token struck over a North Wales 12 stays Yorkshire 13

because both had a plain edge.

 

Only 308 more tokens to look through.

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/rwyarmch/Message%20board%2015/MergedYorkshire13vsNoWales122.jpg[/img]York 13 struck over North Wales 12

 

yarm

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2014 by yarm

[Hard Times]

 

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[Yarm]

 

 

Hard Times, there are some Conder tokens that were struck so as to produce a convex surface. Is that what I'm seeing on the obverse of your M312b?

 

yarm

[Hard Times]

 

 

Hard Times, there are some Conder tokens that were struck so as to produce a convex surface. Is that what I'm seeing on the obverse of your M312b?

 

yarm

 

Yes this is one of them. This a a specious token - fictitious vendor, that Bell says was made for collectors. It shares the same reverse as the Rye token I posted earlier, also specious. The Rye token is listed as 30 made, this one has an R rating, so 30 to 75 made. The concave, or convex up (upward bulge to the center point from the rims) obverse is hard to image because of the reflections of the light source. I used 4 lights here to even it out.

 

Best, HT

[Yarm]

Satirical Spence farthing, Middlesex 1100. "If the law requires it, we will walk thus." and "Am I not thine "

 

[Hard Times]

Very nice yarm, I love the spence farthings - here is another one with the same reverse.

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[Yarm]

From Heritage's Chatham sale, Middlesex 88, a penny in Skidmore's London and Westminster series.

 

 

Heritage posted a summary of the Chatham auction which indicated there were 175 bidders, 48 of whom were successful, for the 383 lots.

Edited December 2, 2014 by yarm

[Conder101]

Only 48 of us were successful? (They had 20 pieces I could use, I bid on eight, I got three.)

[brg5658]

I got one! Midd-74...but out of the country right now so I will post when I return.

 

Brandon