Conder Collectors - Post Your Images 3 3

[farthing]

I also won one from the auction: Middlesex 583Bis - one not seen very often

 

[Conder101]

I was watching that one as well, but decided to pass on it.

[Yarm]

This bis business sent me running to my online D&H.

 

"Bis became a kind of cataloguing panacea for Dalton and Hamer. They used the term in several different circumstances, in each of which there is a relationship

between a token already assigned a number and the discovery token. However, the connection between the two is stronger in some cases and weaker in others.

For example, one can find “bis” tokens that could have any of the following features:

1) Minor differences in one die or the other, i.e., a slight shift in a certain feature, or the addition or removal of a period [Middlesex 235 – 235 bis II]

2) Share one die in common and have a different reverse or obverse (sometimes blank, as with uniface die trials) [Middlesex 289 bis and Warwickshire 43 bis]

3) Share no dies in common but the design or concept is similar to a catalogued token [Middlesex 213 – 213 bis II; Middlesex 1052 bis]"

 

I'm thinking Midd 583 bis falls into category 3.

[Conder101]

That makes sense, but in the case of ths piece it really doesn't fit well with any of the three possibilities. It comes closest to #3, but it really shouldn't be in with this group at all. The only connection is the fact that it mentions St Bride's. The church steeple isn't really similar to any of those seen on the Churches and Gates pieces, it isn't the work of Skidmore, the workmanship is completely different, and it's dated four years later than the rest of the pieces in the series. The 1801 date places it in the fringe area between the end of the Conder tokens and the beginning of the 1801-1817 era cataloged by Davis.

 

If it is a Conder it probably would fit better in Middlesex between 284 and 285 under the heading of Constitutional Society or in the Political and Social series between 1006 and 1007.

 

If it is part of the later Davis tokens I'n not sure where it would fit in. A weight on the token would probably help to determine where it would fit. The Conders tend to run to a heavier weight standard than the post 1800 tokens due to higher copper prices during the later period.

[Yarm]

My contribution to this odd "bis-ness", Middlesex 181 bis II.

 

[coinman1794]

This is my only GB Token:

 

NGC MS67BN

 

[farthing]

I agree, this token does not belong in the Churches and Gates section, rather the Political and Social series. Apparently the church is St. Bride's Fleet Street, the obverse is a good portrait of the church. Still searching for information on the Constitutional Society.

[Hard Times]

This is my only GB Token:

 

NGC MS67BN

 

 

Very nice CM! here is mine for comparison.....

 

 

Best, HT

Edited December 11, 2014 by Hard Times

[coinman1794]

Yours is another monster, and seems much close rot full RED than RB.

[Hard Times]

CM I am guessing yours explodes in mega flash under the light? I have never seen a 67 Conder in hand, it must be something!

 

Best, HT

[Yarm]

Another Chatham purchase, Warks 184b, with what is listed as an engrailed edge. Unlike my other engrailed items, there is a sine wave the width of the edge.

 

 

 

[coinman1794]

CM I am guessing yours explodes in mega flash under the light? I have never seen a 67 Conder in hand, it must be something!

 

Best, HT

 

This was also the first I had seen that seemed to live up to the grade. "Mega flash" would be a good word for it. It looks brand new, save for the mellowed color; though lots of mint red shines from the centers. The late die state creates amazing rippled orange peel luster and starburst.

 

The slab shot lends some perspective to the luster.

 

 

 

 

Cool recut date!

[Hard Times]

And a repunched date as well...........

[Hard Times]

Edited January 17, 2015 by Hard Times

[Hard Times]

[brg5658]

[Conder101]

Just purchased this on a couple days ago and I can't wait for it to get here and examine it in hand. It isn't much to look at but it could be an important piece.

 

[brg5658]

Just purchased this on a couple days ago and I can't wait for it to get here and examine it in hand. It isn't much to look at but it could be an important piece.

 

 

Do you think it's a lead trial? White metal? Silvered? -- What was it advertised as?

[Conder101]

It is supposed to be tin which for all practical purposes would be "white metal"

[brg5658]

The dragon on William Wallace's helmet and the detail in the beard and cloak on the obverse are

stunning in hand (Gulielmus Vallas = William Wallace -- the guy of Braveheart fame). The reverse is just as stunning, and I love the detail in the drapery, the shield, and the thistle. The workmanship in general is amazing on this copper. Sorry for the scuffs on the holder, I buffed them out as best I could. As you all know, NGC plastic doesn't buff up very easily.

 

1797 Ayrshire Halfpenny Token DH-3, NGC MS64BN

 

 

[Hard Times]

Nice Brandon, the expansion of my End of Pain farthings with the addition of this one, which goes with the other two below it.

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

[Yarm]

Just getting back into the photographic aspects of the hobby-a Durham Sunderland 2 penny.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2015 by yarm

[farthing]

Nice!!!

[brg5658]

Picked this up in the CICF auction last week. It arrived yesterday and I snapped some photos...

 

 

[Hard Times]

Picked this up in the CICF auction last week. It arrived yesterday and I snapped some photos...

 

 

Brandon that is simply a stunner! But no horse!

 

Yarm, try as I might, I have been wanting to get a County Durham token for years. Yours is amazing!

 

Best, HT

[brg5658]

I am really happy with this ex-Yarm collection purchase. It took 4 years to make its way to my collection from when yarm sold it to a PCGS board member back in 2011.

 

 

You can see the "centering dot" above the lion's back in this close-up...

 

[coinsarefun]

Very nice. I always liked this design with the Lion in the cave

 

 

 

[Hard Times]

Very nice. I always liked this design with the Lion in the cave

 

 

 

I agree, I have never seen that design before but I love it. Brandon's imaging of an amazing example is also impressive. Wow!

 

Best, HT

[Yarm]

A bronzed example of Middlesex 24 by John Milton. This penny size token/medal was produced by J. Rebello as a memorial to his father Thomas Alves Rebello. The elder Rebello had issued his own token, Middlesex 309, just a year before.

 

Edited May 30, 2015 by yarm

[CyberspaceVoid]

Re: Warwickshire DH-20 "Lion's Den"

 

Darn .... you're out of the country for a bit and one of the ones that got away from me before is "rehypothicated" ..... good to see it again at least

Edited June 23, 2015 by CyberspaceVoid