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Conder Collectors - Post Your Images
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Started by Hard Times,

606 posts in this topic

CyberspaceVoid

CyberspaceVoid

Posted
Posted

I picked up my first Conder farthing not too long ago myself, a Surrey-Lambeth D&H-19, one of Denton's Farthings picturing Sir Jeffery Dunstan on the obverse and an inscription on the reverse. While nowhere near as spectacular as Yarm's above I will still try to image and post it in a few days.

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Conder101

Conder101

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Posted

Still impressive, Surrey pieces are not easy to find.

 

I picked up three pieces this week, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly.

 

The good one I unfortunately do not have pictures of. it is a Somersetshire 114 farthing. A nice unc coin with unfortunately a couple rather large dark spots by the camels rear legs. Listed in D&H as Rare I was happy to get it because it is a GTT (Genuine Trade Token) which is my primary collecting focus and it is seldom now that I can find a piece I don't have.

 

The Bad

$(KGrHqF,!hUE+8,SFZEcBQBb7Ce-C!~~60_12.JPG

I already have two examples of this piece and I've seen a couple dozen more, so why did I want it?

 

$T2eC16R,!)8E9s4l7cnzBQBb7B4Czw~~60_12.JPG

This was sold on eBay as a nice XF example of a 222 year old Conder token from 1790. (And it is slabbed by one of the top four services, in their latest holder)

Those that know the series will instantly recognize it as a modern fake that was made in the 1950's.

 

And The Ugly

$(KGrHqRHJBYFBUsTIwGSBQY5J7Zyc!~~60_12.JPG

$T2eC16dHJHEE9ny2sqt8BQY5J+7GJw~~60_12.JPG

As I said UGLY. But it is also an Essex 3 the last piece i need to finish off the county. Still you would think I would hold out for a better one. But I have been chasing this variety for years. D&H calls it RARE but I think it is underrated. During those years of searching I've seen about a dozen Essex 3's listed, on ebay, on specialist dealers lists, and in auction sales of specialized collections. With the exception of one piece they have all been misattributed Essex 4's

 

 

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Conder101

Conder101

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Posted

No there are actually relatively few modern fakes, and those that are around are usually rather crude copies. There are a lot more contemporary counterfiets and they are cataloged in D&H and collected right along with the genuine pieces. The contemporary counterfeits though are harder to get in nice condition.

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Conder101

Conder101

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When you see one in hand you will notice that the material and fabrication is nothing like the real 18th century pieces. It is more of a brass type alloy in my opinion than pure copper. The overly large head is like nothing else in the Wilkinson series, the lettering does not match the style used back then. On the reverse the anvil is set too far to the right and the ships in the background are squashed between the anvil and the rim. (Keep that rim in mind I'll come back to it.) The hammer is too high touching the rim, this is much higher than on any of the early tokens. The really odd thing about them is I can't figure out how they were made. As near as I can figure they were punched from the strip and struck with the same blow of the press. The reverse has a well formed raised plain rim all the way around the coin like you would see in a coin struck in a close collar. No other Conder except for some of the collector pieces have a rim like that. the obverse on the other hand has no rim whatsoever and the field curves down to become the edge of the coin. The edge is plain and smooth but not as smooth as it would be with a close collar. The way the obv field wraps over to become the edge reminds me of what the underside of a type 1 blank looks like after it has been punched out before it goes through the upsetting mill. I suspect these are made by using the reverse die to punch the blank out of the strip through a hole in a metal plate and against the obverse die set a short distance below the plate. (The resistance of the shearing of the metal allows the rim to form, the punching out of the blank creates the rounded "rim" on the other side, and passing through the hole in the plate smooths the edge of the coin.) The rev die then retracts, the struck piece is brushed away, the metal advances and they strike the next one. (I've seen a couple of other 20th century tokens, not Conders, with this same type of appearance, rim on one side and rounded edge on the other. Oh and the blank is noticeably thinner than any of the genuine tokens, and thinner than many of the contemporary counterfeit tokens. Once you have seen a couple of these that head becomes an obvious giveaway and you can spot them at a glance.

 

No I am not returning it. As I said you can spot these easily so I knew it was the fake as soon as I saw the auction. I specifically bought it BECAUSE it was a modern fake slabbed as a genuine token by one of the major companies.

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CyberspaceVoid

CyberspaceVoid

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Conder ... Thanks for today's very informative lesson. Spotting fakes in any series is much easier when you have been collecting them for years. Have you ever considered writing? IMO you have a great style for explaining things.

 

BTW, I too would keep the slabbed counterfeit, more as an example than anything else, but being in the slab makes it all the more fun

 

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CyberspaceVoid

CyberspaceVoid

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As promised, some pictures of my Surrey-Lambeth D&H-19. My setup for pictures is crude and these farthings are much harder to get an acceptable image. In this case, the coin appears much more washed out than it appears in hand even though I think it probably had a cleaning in the past. Still a nice purchase for what I paid for it at a local shop (the only Conder they had).

 

Surrey19-white.jpg

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HiHoAudio

HiHoAudio

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Posted
Conder ... Thanks for today's very informative lesson. Spotting fakes in any series is much easier when you have been collecting them for years. Have you ever considered writing? IMO you have a great style for explaining things.

 

BTW, I too would keep the slabbed counterfeit, more as an example than anything else, but being in the slab makes it all the more fun

 

Great observation on the fake token Conder, I appreciate the abundance of details.

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CyberspaceVoid

CyberspaceVoid

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Purchased a raw Salter's Hat Warehouse (Middlesex 473) the other day in a nice MS-64 BN condition (my grade). It's not in my typical theme of Conders that I would collect, but for the price I could hardly pass it up. Will post in a few days after I image it.

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JOBESSI

JOBESSI

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I just picked up this 418 off the bay...ended up paying WAY too much for it! Friggin' collecting addiction! watcha think? (seller's pics)

pid1_zps28a9c6a1.jpgpid2_zps375d05db.jpg

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HiHoAudio

HiHoAudio

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I was also bidding, but let it slip away.

 

Happy we didn't get into a bidding war and it sold to someone I respect. :)

 

Probably won't see another like it for a L-O-N-G time, if ever.

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JOBESSI

JOBESSI

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So it was you!!! lol! Thanks for the compliment. Hopefully my pidcock collection will be as extensive as yours one day. To tell you the truth, I'm a little worried about the area around the "Male Tiger"...looks like PVC.

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HiHoAudio

HiHoAudio

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Most of the older Conder collectors kept their tokens in paper envelopes (some with soft cotton inserts) so PVC poisoning is usually not a concern. However it may be verdigris from improper storage, which is even worse.

 

I think NGC can conserve the token either way. Now that you own it you owe it to Pidcock collectors everywhere to preserve it as best as you can.

 

We have standards. :whistle:

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Yarm

Yarm

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Posted (edited)

Denton's satirical token Middlesex 298. The edge reads "Any sum given for scarce original impressions."

I don't know whether the reverse has evidence of die rust or if someone has fooled with it.

It wouldn't shock me to get a "details" grade but there are other examples of this token which show

some funky features on the reverse as well.

 

MergedMiddlesex298.jpg

Edited by yarm
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