Woods020

It sure looks like a proof from the poor pictures, but I may be mistaken. You are mistaken if you are under the impression DCAM is a requirement for a proof. CAM much less DCAM is additive on better and earlier strikes while the dies are fresh, but by no means a requirement for a coin to be a proof. Until fairly recently cam was much less common on proofs.

Again it’s a proof. And the reflective surfaces do just that and reflect the light. It’s hard to tell much from those pics.

That’s a proof. Can you post clearer pictures? No one can tell anything from those.

My guess would be intent to deceive is the fundamental issue. Counterfeit laws discuss intent. That’s why something with replica or copy is legal, as well as fantasy pieces many feel are legal. It boils down to intent to deceive. Although it would be easy to say a fantasy date coin would deceive many non collectors and new collectors alike.

I agree. I think this is one of the all time best designs.

Sam - I agree the pictures aren’t the best. Any way you can post some more?

Where is the wear? I was looking hard to see if it was really AU or MS. If there is wear in the hair it’s minimal. Wingtips also don’t show wear that I see.

Looks like it was struck through a lot of grease

I had every intention of going but got roped into a beach trip with my extended family the next week. So I bowed out since I couldn’t take two weeks in a row off. Enjoy! Be sure to show us your bounty.

I’ve debated on that thing for a few weeks. It’s a little darker than I would prefer, which is why I have hesitated.

I think that was the initial intent, but it’s far from it. I’ve actually found that Greysheet will most of the time get you right in that sweet spot several have mentioned at roughly 80% of retail that most of us try to buy at. No dealer anywhere will pay Greysheet unless it’s got something special in eye appeal. They usually pay more blue book or 50% of retail. It all depends. Here is a prime example. I have bought several coins from Northeast Numismatics recently (highly recommend them by the way). This is a listing for a dime of theirs I saw recently and am debating on. You will notice their asking price is below Greysheet. Not always the case but on average I’ve found if I buy at Greysheet it’s about perfect. The last coin show I went to a month ago I went from table to table and if I asked a price without a single fail they pulled out the Greysheet and quoted the price.

This one is EF40 to my eye.

Pretty sure he meant he targets to pay 80% of retail. I think that’s a number a lot of people would quote. Unless it’s a once in a lifetime or has amazing eye appeal. So your $200 coin he would set a target buy or not to exceed price of $160.

Agree with Moxie. Noticeable wear in the hair. Low AU or perhaps XF.

Well regardless of how you view this, what I think a key takeaway is that it is a good signal for the hobby’s longevity. I know the due diligence investment firms put into M&A, and they surely analyzed the market projections for the future to the nth degree. Regardless of how they run the business my takeaway is that some very intelligent people analyzed the collectibles market and felt it would remain strong to growing. That’s a good thing.

I agree completely. I think they take into account the known life of the coin. For coins like Morgans they know they were heavy coins in large bags transported great distances. Similarly they know drawbench marks, adjustment marks, etc. and can account for that not being damage per se but an expected occurrence. For other coins they weren’t expected to go through some of this or to the same extent so they are viewed differently. However it would be nice to see some examples you thought should have been considered bag marks. Sometimes it is just a scratch and that is easy enough to discern. Not every mark can be attributed to bag marks.

Both the most fun and most frustrating 😂. I’m shocked at how little information is out there for some of the old businesses and clubs. I guess I am spoiled growing up with all information just a computer away, but man I have several I can find nothing on. Seems a business would have some sort of record but not always the case. But it’s fun to try and solve the mystery.

This is the best advice anyone can give. When I first started I was in such a hurry to build up a collection I overpaid for many. In reality there are very very few coins you won’t have many chances to buy. If the price isn’t right pass and be patient. You may find one you like better in a few months at a better price. Honestly most of the lessons I have learned in the art of numismatics (not the science which is the technical part) all boil down to patience. Don’t rush to buy, don’t rush to grade, don’t rush to over shoot your knowledge. Slow and steady will win this race for sure.

Do you have some examples?

No dealers won’t pay grey sheet. They pay blue or less. Greysheet is retail pricing. Now not every coin will follow by this. Some ugly coins will go less than average and beautiful ones more. It’s an average but Greysheet isn’t what dealers will pay.

JP, Blue book and blue sheet are prices dealers are willing to pay to buy your coin. You won’t be able to buy coins very often at these prices. If you want to forego Greysheet which I completely understand your best bet is sold prices. eBay has an easy way just google ebay sold listing search and you can find it that way. You can also look on the auction houses to see. PCGS also offers a sold price lookup and here is the link. https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices

Patman, as a general rule you will do better to start a new thread for each coin you have questions about.

This one I do know what happened. Heat damage. It was exposed to high heat/fire and it bubbled. These come across quite often.

I honestly have no clue. It also appears to be in the planchet and not in the lettering. Do the letters/numbers on the coin have the lines or do they seem to go under it? Did you dip it or soak in acetone?