Jason Abshier

I’m not too familiar with US minted stuff or bullion being painted (colorized) not sure if any US coinage or bullion is colorized today I don’t think so I could be wrong ? But most of the world bullion stuff is coming out colorized from their respective mints where they were produced and offered for sale standard colorized they are accepted by NGC/PCGS for grading …. It’s making a new market now a days coins that were hot property and lost their value ? There’s tons and tons of US coins modern and classic that lost a lot of value over the years … take ASE for example TV dealers / big dealers order monster boxes of them every year ship them off to grading tons and tons of money been spilled over that MS70/PF70 ASE then market cools down in a few months after they been issued and graded… now for classic coinage take Commemorative half dollar series was very hot property in 1980’s guys were spending thousands of dollars on a single coin… by 1990’s most of the coins in series lost a lot value today you can buy them in MS65 and MS66 for couple hundred dollars … huge lost in money… the problem with the US mint stuff is it’s too popular and it’s also massed produced in large quantities nothing is really rare at all anymore why they call it a “rare coin market” ? I have no idea … doesn’t seem to rare to me … there’s some coins are rare but 95% of the stuff is not rare at all

You bought up a good point … right now all this modern stuff is grading out 68, 69 and 70’s hot off the press as soon as it hit the market …. It’s doesn’t circulate ! What will market be in next 20 years ? Probably dead in that sector…. Me I would aim for lower mintage modern stuff it might appreciate in near future if I was heavily involved into collecting modern issues which I’m not… stick with mintages lower than 500 or 1,000 or perhaps 3,000 it might just keep buyers interested in future but who knows …. But I do see ASE a dead end collecting not really worth pouring a lot money into silver eagles hoping to gain back a lot unless silver shoot up in price … but I do see modern graded 1oz silver graded and Raw with low mintages as collectible piece it should be treated as a collectible coin despite its silver content … same as Morgan dollar it has silver ? Yes ? Can it be expensive ? Yes ? Can you get cheaper ? Sure a worn down Morgan dollar is only worth its melt on current market standards at the time I can’t see investing into ASE that been massed produced in large quantities when they grade out 69 or 70 … there’s just no play between grades like a circulated coin

Any dealer who gets mad at someone for a simple question? … turn around and walk away!!! RED FLAG that dealer … Most of the dealers I’ve encounter are down to earth people … they take the time to “educate” a new collector or even a veteran collector a lot dealers are very knowledgeable in certain series of coin collecting they spent years and years studying and gaining knowledge …

Dealer needs to make money on anything weather it’s silver bullion , scrap silver , collectible coins whatever the dealer will always have the upper hand… take one back to them they’ll only give you half price or melt value or not accept it at all … however they will be glad to take PF70 or MS70 modern bullion and mark it up way way way past melt value because they know some one is out there will buy it eventually

Keep In mind “supply and demands” are what drives the market in any collectible area … weather it’s toys , paintings , baseball cards , coins (modern and classic) , antique cars and so on … if there is no demands there won’t be a market so to say a market will be a short one ? Who knows … we have newer folks joining our hobbies and today with internet and everything every major mint is pumping out silver bullion rounds they are being gobbled up by newer collectors , I myself collect some bullion coins did I pay more than melt value? (sadly yes on some bullion I’ve collected) …. Did I pay hundred and hundreds for Morgan dollars in past or other silver coinage? Yes sadly paid the “collector’s premium” simply because the “market” driven the prices up for it …

There is a market for them already folks are paying way way over melt value for them in 69 and 70 grade being high premiums on modern market … just saying … that’s sorta like saying well a Morgan dollar is only worth its money in silver , when we all see collectors pouring out hundreds and hundreds for a Morgan dollar which by way most are plentiful even in the average 65 grade … they bring a premium because collectors make the market so … I modern bullion coins in low mintages and so on making their own market among collectors that are willing to pay way more than melt value it’s not all classic coins anymore

It’s because the mint that it came from Perth mint? or where ever it’s came from that’s the “standard” they colorized it there’s proof by the mint they did so it was documented as well … that’s why NGC/PCGS accepts them for grading … when buying “raw” colorized coins ? you have to research make sure you’re buying a coin that been colorized by mint and it’s documented with that respective “known” mint who is offering the coin or bullion for sale…

Exactly the seller has 2 pages of mostly all RAW gold coins ? Little fishy there too easy to pop a few fakes in between all them gold coins and rip someone off and deny it

@EagleRJO that’s a good example you showed of ASE that been painted by third party owner/seller … That won’t grade at NGC/PCGS more of novelty item I would’t spend too much on that however not sure how much of a pain? It is to paint that like that with precision… however I’ve seen them before look cool something different ASE are massed produced in large numbers I wouldn’t buy one not my cup tea …. I’ve seen some colorized coins done by Perth mint and few others mints the coins graded out in NGC/PCGS holders my wife is big fan of Tuvalu rotating charm coins they have a small rotating ball in middle of the coin… I buy them every year for her they have low mintage of (3000) anyways a few of them have that paint (colorized) on them done by the mint …They are raw but I have seen graded samples of them I have no intentions sending hers in for grading … that’s about only colorized coins I have in my collection (well her’s) not really mine I had hard time finding a few of the earlier years like “Yin/Yang rotating Tuvalu charm” “Dragons and pearls” I had spend little more than I would of liked to spend on (modern coin) just to get it for her it was slim pickings ! I couldn’t find any other for sale at time … If the wife happy then I’m happy whatever goes

I disagree with this statement … only reason is I have seen these type of coins being graded , however the modernized market many many of colorized bullion coins been graded already by both PCGS and NGC… I do not consider them damage I believe they only accept painted coins for grading that been done ONLY by the Mint that made them I tend to shy away from painted modern coins , one time my wife really wanted this peacock coin she was looking around online (although she doesn’t collect coins nor does she care about my coin collection!) … I said I’d get around to buying it “someday” I was busy spending my money on stuff I wanted for my collection , well that was a mistake ! Today they are upward $900-$1000 last I looked … I should of just gotten her one when they were going for $100 when they first came out with them … if she keeps nagging me about it again, I’m gonna tell her we gotta pawn off that old engagement ring I gave her 26 years ago … I don’t spend that kind of money on modern coinage let alone colorized coins 😂 my coin collecting money too precious to spend on stuff like this

With blurry pictures like that I thought it was “tripling” and not doubling thought I needed my eyes checked 👀 … Over all it looks like normal wheat cent if you see any slight doubling? It’s most likely die deterioration from worn out dies during a production striking.

I feel your pain ! Get ahold of MA-shop again and show them this forum chat we been talking about them and how they are conducting business …. However the seller/dealer you are up against has a (rating 635 with 99.7%) they haven’t been in there too long selling…. But where they got you was their *2 week return policy* that’s a policy they set to protect themselves however you can try Paypal see if they can get your refund back for you … not sure how the laws work there you may be even able to file a police report ? Press charges for theft ? Then again there been people who been burned way way worse than you have been with fake coins who purchased multiple coins spent like $10k or so to find the coin or coins they bought all been fake! …. I would only highly recommend you to buy graded coins already encapsulated by PCGS/NGC especially Gold coins… save yourself the hassle and fees sending the coin in to get authenticated and graded yourself sometimes just isn’t worth it , not even for generic bullion gold coins… if I’m going to spend $200-$300 or more on a single coin ? I might as well save up a little more money and just try to buy it already graded in a NGC/PCGS holder and call it a day put it in collection it helps me save myself the hassle shipping a coin in for grading and waiting and fees and so on

Most of them are low mintage , sadly a lot of them toned rather ugly today they need a good dipping , however there’s some stunning toned commemorative half dollars also some very high grades MS67 that still pull premiums but the collector’s crowd interest dropped over the years just about every dealer now a days have some classic commemoratives for sale they sometimes just sit in inventory for long time never sell well … I read a articles back then dealers and collectors were desperately looking for the original boxes that came along with these coins when they were issued , which we rarely see today the original boxes what happened to them ? I have no idea I hardly ever see a original commemorative boxes for sale … again I’m not really looking for them anyways You are correct the market crashed right around when TPG was taking off with plastic slab technology probably why they may have seen a major spike in prices but dealers couldn’t get enough of them to supply demands … why such a sudden demand ? I don’t know maybe another member on here who experienced buy/selling in that market at the time can shed light on it

It was an interesting market for sure , they shared their glory in market history as for folks who shelled out the high dollars for them back then ? OUCH!!!

No such thing as 100% perfect no two coins taken off press stop definitely positively not identical to each other … just nearly impossible if you want get technical about it look at each “perfect” coin under a powerful microscope I guarantee you’ll see flaw difference between the two coins that are so called “perfect”… Never ever will Machine nor man ever be 100% perfect … I still can’t tell difference between MS/PF 69 VS MS/PF 70 not with a 10x loupe

Commemorative classic half dollars was a fine example of hostile market in early to mid 80’s …. Tons and tons of money was spent and wasted on these “red-hot” coins to watch the market all sudden collapse and sudden huge price drops ! Today these coins can be easily purchased and assemble in a collection 95% of them are in affordable price range from grade MS63-MS66

I posted this to show for education purposes what a Real Gold 1898 10 guilders looks like compared to the OP’s counterfeit coin

For real ? … it been around for long time … mostly European coin dealers overseas , it’s a nice place to get the “hard to find stuff” in world coins …. You have look it up yourself , however mostly 90% of the stuff on there is RAW ,RAW ! you really have look before buying anything on there … but I haven’t bought coins from there in over a year or so … however I did buy a few hard to find German coin catalogs within last month or so … but lately the prices for just about everything is marked up high!!! (well the stuff I want for my collection)

That’s one of the reason I try not to buy very high end coins overseas … however I do buy a lot German coins on MA-shop in the past …. If it’s something high end I buy for my collection I always research it and only buy it graded by PCGS/NGC (yes I know there’s fake holders with fake coins) but it’s the risk we take … however I never had bad experience on MA-shop I been buying from dealers on there for years but it mostly German coins …. Lately I haven’t been buying anything on there the prices have gone way way way up for my taste everything been marked up high… I’m waiting for prices to drop a little it might be a looooong wait for me … I been doing better price buying wise in auctions and other private dealer sites…

You asked a good question …. Newer folks getting into the hobby often get proof and business strike mixed up … in most cases a Proof coin is NOT rarer or scarce , however a Proof coin is NOT a grade it is a method of manufacture the way the polished up blanks and dies to strike proof coins they also strike proof coins a few times at higher pressure to bring out the best in the coin … however on another note it is harder to get a higher grade on business strike coin made for circulation compared to a proof …. then There is some proof coins that are scarce and rarer due to limited of mintage they made which is why you might see a high price for a proof coin in certain series , and even world coins as well

You pretty much nailed it …. I myself welcome the newer modernized collecting hobby even tho I collect classic coinage I do like the looks on some of the newer bullion coins hitting the market that is supplied to the newer crowd and generation of collectors … I notice us older collectors can be somewhat domineering towards newer collectors pressing our conservative beliefs on what coin collecting should be (mostly classic coinage)… it’s not a one size fits all market anymore

It will be a matter of time in future NGC/PCGS will grade just anything … I’ve already seen tons of modern colorized painted bullion get graded from Bart Simpson, Star Wars , to wacky creatures and so on bullion … when they always said they would never grade them (maybe they accepted it for grading only because it was done by the mint) … Times are changing it’s a modern market out there completely off the rails compared to our classic coinage. What will it be in the next 20-30-40 years from now? They new collector in future will look at our old old classic coinage as ancient coinage!

Is this a joke? If that were the case I’d reach in pocket everyday and try sell my change for triple the face value we’d all be rich if it were that easy … what you have is not “vintage” at all nothing but Pop machine pocket change … hope you stick around learn more about the hobby and what to collect and what to avoid … might want start of learning how grade certain coins before you buy them, read some numismatic books then decide which coins you would like to collect US series ? Or world coin type ?

I’m a little confused here do you have the older small white ANACS holders ? Or are they in the Yellow/blue labeled style ANACS holders ? In my opinion the yellow/blue labeled stuff from ANACS is a 50/50 shot if that grade is accurate or not they tend to over grade a point or more not saying ANACS is bad I notice they also tend to detail a lot coins not that PCGS/NGC won’t but a lot people send cheaper lower problem value coins to ANACS for grading they aren’t really worth the merit or time and expenses sending them to NGC or PCGS paying high submission fees to have coins graded …. However the old small White ANACS stuff is pretty conservative on grading they may have a chance of upgrading at PCGS/NGC on todays market again I won’t send a coin in unless it’s worth at least $150+ or more to be evaluated and encapsulated by NGC/PCGS (A lot of coins just aren’t worth hassle sending in for grading the market already has plenty of the coins already graded) we leave them in raw condition in 2x2 or air-tite snaps , dansco album or in their old graded holders and call it a day either that or trade/sell them for better coins … I wouldn’t buy a bunch ANACS coins then shell out more money to have them Regraded by NGC/PCGS I would lose money there , that I could use to buy other coins for my collection …. Only exception I would make unless the coin is Hot on the market in demand it’s in an old white ANACS holder and I plan to sell it ? I would crack it out and send it in to PCGS/NGC have them grade it wait for for the results to come back that only if I intent to sell it right away which I rarely ever sell any of my coins once I buy them I keep them for loooooong time just the way they are… so in meantime you got something to think about , my advice is show us some pictures on here we’ll let you know if it’s even worth sending into PCGS/NGC you’ll thank us for helping you save money

I have several old ANA/ANACS as well as PCGS And old NGC slab holders I leave them intact as they are no need to have any of them regraded … in fact the old ANA and ANACS stuff was at time when grading was very very conservative not like today we have market grading between PCGS/NGC I’m not going to get too deep into that talk …. If you show some pictures of what you have and you are looking to improve your price point on coins that you wish to send in for (market grading) and wish to sell ASAP to gain back some profit ? Pictures would be helpful …. Otherwise if these are coins you plan to keep in your collection for many many years ? There’s no need to worry about cracking them out to send for grading right now if I were you I would just leave them intact the way they are … enough coins been cracked out of these old old holders by dealers and collectors only wishing to maximize their profits selling coins is why the market is wacky as it is today… in the end these old holders are vanishing fast just like our history is be stripped away today … once they are gone they are gone for good