powermad5000

NGC will be happy to take your money to slab just about anything. These fall under the vast array of Mint marketing gimmicks that I turned away from long ago when they started toying with the ASE's. Proofs, SMS's, and Mint Sets were one thing, but it is out of hand now. I would not spend my money on slabbing these.

Those look like Canyon City on eBay....am I correct? If so those photos are totally juiced and you won't get in hand what you think you will. Aside from that, checking on the VAM's for those two years, I don't see any indications of VAM attribution so they are standard for the year (s). Deciphering the grade from those photos I would say they are both MS 62.

A fool and his money are soon separated. A coin marked MS 65 is MS 65 no matter if the label is brown, green, yellow, black, or purple or has background images of floating cows on it. I have my own OCD things and I get it where you are coming from, but when it comes to the coins in my collection, I could care less if the labels match, or what they even look like. I care about the coin in the holder and how that looks because even MS 65 can be blast white if it is sliver, or have some heavy toning leaning toward black but still be MS 65. Buy the coin, not the label. The NGC label has changed over the years as well as the holder. I have a lot of the older holders too where you can't view the rim of the coin and those labels are totally different.

I'm only trying to explain what I see (and probably in a terrible way) as it is a confusing coin...

Something does not jive with me on this coin. Thinking of the famous 1955 DDO Lincoln Wheat cent, and all DDO,s for that matter, the strikes all fall within the same rim as the planchet is still in the collar but struck twice, producing two images which by the way are both just as crisp as each other. I have a TDR proof 1955 and wish this topic came up before I went to my safe deposit box today so I could have taken a picture of the reverse. My lament aside, the tripled images are also not crisp with my mind referring back to the 1955 DDO example in which there are two crisp distinct images. I also note on the obverse the tripling does not translate fully over to the west side of the coin and in particular LIBERTY, nor does it translate to the head and the date as well. I also note an incuse ghost of a tilted 1945 above the date on the obverse which makes less sense to me. What I also note is if somehow the coin was popping out of the collar the obverse and reverse would have corresponding movement and the pattern on the reverse does not seem to match the pattern of movement on the obverse. Also, once again, the tripling on the reverse is not a crisp image side by side by side. I am not exactly sure how this was produced but I am going to venture out and say this could not have happened during the striking process.

Thanks Eagle! I am not in any registry sets. I am not a registry collector, just a collector of really nice coins. I attempt to buy raw coins at a 1:10 ratio (buy for 1 and worth 10). My first ever coin was a worn 1921 Morgan and I just could not get past the design. Still my all time favorite coin series! With a better job came better coins and more Morgans. One of my larger purchases was $2,200 for a 20 Morgan roll on eBay. Turned out I lucked out on the roll and it was worth what I paid for it even after sending them all in for grading. It had 3 CC's in the roll, 2 83's and an 84. Two got 63 and one got 63+. I was happy as a clam! The rest of the roll quickly filled a lot of other holes I had and the worst graded 62 with the best grading 64. I can see the dangers of buying rolls and I took a chance but got lucky. I could see how easily it could be to invest in a roll like that and get them all back with Details Cleaned tags. Before the roll I already had acquired about 30 Morgans on my own and have gotten more since the roll bringing me about halfway through the set. I have some PL's splashed in there too, but have yet to acquire a raw DMPL. My highest is a 66+. Off Morgans, I also seem to fancy Trade dollars. I have half the set of Peace dollars. Still trying to put together the entire set of Franklin Halves in minimum 64 FBL and I am at about 70 percent on those. I have Liberty Nickels, Indian heads, Wheaties, Seated Liberty quarters and halves, Barber quarters and dimes, early copper large and half cents, Washingtons, Roosys, Mercs, Susan B's, Ikes, a half dime, 2 cents, 3 cent nickels, Trimes, 8 reales, some ancients, flying eagle cents, plenty of mint errors...........I'm literally all over the place in my collection. What happened was when I started working a better job, I was able to get better coins and my collecting changed drastically. Now I look for high quality pieces (even AU doesn't appeal to me anymore unless its something really special). I have gone after some low mintage coins and those I am ok if they are G or even Poor as long as they straight grade no details. Basically, my collecting style now doesn't lend to putting a registry set together unless it would be for the Franklins. And all these coins bring me a lot of joy!

I have decided to open this discussion in the newbie section of the forum as newbies can benefit from this discussion. I have recently seen these MAC stickers on slabs [MAC (modern approved coin)] similar to the green CAC stickers. These MAC stickers are basically assigning their own grading system to the coins. Two I have seen so far are for "spotless" and "PL" for proof-like. My gripe is MS 67 may not necessarily be spotless, and if the coin is proof like, then NGC would put PL on the tag inside the slab. To me these stickers are just an opinion and newbies should be wary of thinking these stickers in some way enhance the value of the coin in the slab. I would like to see what others think of these stickers.

Those are in much better shape than the ones I have in the tube. Nice!

I apologize Eagle if my comment towards yours caused some confusion here. I was trying to clear that up. When I read that, I took it as a newbie reading that and it kind of came across that eBay coins should be avoided. I think just about every seller everywhere overgrades their coins to make a few more bucks. It seemed the OP after reading that kind of threw up his hands and I was trying to not let him get discouraged. I agree that the OP needs to be able to evaluate what the purchase is before making it, hence my suggestions. I have been working a full set of Morgans for 45+ years. Trying to get it in a minimum of MS 62 with exception of key dates. I am about halfway. Splashed with some VAM's and some MS 65s and MS 66s so far. It is a rewarding pursuit.

$3 for a 68* is a sweet deal. I'd take that deal any day!

I have a tube of nickels that I add to from circulation. They must be pre 1970 and I know they are not worth anything but a nickel or maybe if lucky a dime, but I also pull them from circulation when I get them. I don't know what it is about getting a nickel from the fifties or even forties (yes, I have gotten a few 40's in cash register change), but I am always amazed at the survivability of the nickel in all these years of circulation and yet they are still not worn down smooth.

I have a slight disagreement with Eagle's statement that all coins on eBay are bad. I believe that you need to have the knowledge and expertise to buy safely from any internet site, but not everything on eBay is a counterfeit or a scam. As for the overgrading, in my humble opinion, EVERY seller overgrades their coins to make more money off the sale and that applies to internet, live auctions (with reserves) and coin shows. Any seller can write MS 65 on a cardboard coin flip to try to get the buyer to bite. It is up to the buyer to make the determination with the knowledge of what they are actually looking at to put the coin back down and walk away from sellers who think all of their coins are worth top premium dollars. That said, you are doing due diligence and fact checking your slabs against the scans and you should keep doing that. Also, you should invest in a scale that reads to a minimum of two decimal places and weigh your purchases of raw coins. For the scale, keep away from that cheap AWS Chinese dog poop pocket scale that costs about $10 and invest in a high quality scale. I recommend Amston Scales. Your eagles should weigh 1.000 troy oz. (31.103 grams). Morgan dollars should weigh 26.73 grams. My first rule when buying over the internet is to NEVER buy from a seller that does not accept returns. If I get the coin in hand and it doesn't look as pleasing as it did in the photos, I should be able to return it and get my money back. I don't care if it is even a tiny ding that didn't appear in the photo, but it does at an angle in hand, if I am not happy with the coin for whatever reason, I want to have the ability to get my money back. My second rule is to buy from reputable sellers who have tons of positive feedback. There are a lot of sellers on eBay that have guarantees of the coins they sell being genuine such as Great Southern, Macvanderstein, APMEX, and Round Table. Read their whole listing and look for their disclaimer that they guarantee they only sell genuine coins. Even one mistake can get by one of them, but knowing what you buy and the ability to return if there is a mistake made by the seller should have you covered. Learn as much as you can about ASE's and Morgans. Sure, it is risky jumping in without proper knowledge, but I don't want you to get discouraged from collecting. I am sure all of us on here has gotten burned at one point or another whether it was from lack of knowledge, or just something we missed. Check out all of your purchases you already made, and verify they are all legit and then move ahead from there. I don't want the OP to get discouraged and just give up. I do want to see him gain the knowledge and experience to keep going.

The 1969 D with no FG is a recognized variety and collectible, but I am with J P M on this as I can see a faint FG on your coin and I don't think it would get attributed as a no FG despite paying the $18 Variety Plus fee. Also with the wear on the coin, I would also agree that it is not worth the grading fees for putting in a holder.

I agree J P M. In fact, for most modern nickels it is hard to find any without a sail full of nicks and dings.

Agreed. It will be necessary to give us full clear images of both sides of the coin to be able to determine what happened to it.

I checked some reverse images and Sandon is correct on this. Good catch Sandon! Unfortunately for the OP, this brings its value down substantially. One of the Heritage Auctions in 2019 had an 02 reverse NGC graded Good Details sell for $360. It is still not a "common" coin with NGC having graded only 59 total with the highest getting VF but is more common than an 00 reverse. Being there is more of a population, with the bent designation, it would probably sell in the $300-400 range. Thanks to both pics, I think we all have narrowed down the OP's original issue finally.

Thanks for the image and info. Many of us on here would also like to have your "problem" with IDing a bunch of coins. I feel your pain. I have an 1876 CC DDO Top 100 dime with details because it is "bent". Being NGC has only graded 4 of these with the best being a VF, and NGC states they believe there to only be about two dozen in existence, you definitely have a rare piece. Remember though, that despite that, it is still a details coin so I think the minor difference between G 04 and G 06 is not going to be an actual factor in its worth as a details coin. HOWEVER, considering the extremely small number of surviving specimens, in this case, you could probably dictate the price of this coin if you were to sell it. It is not like a collector can just say, "I'll pass and just go to this other booth, or go on eBay and get one". That is not possible in the case of your coin. If there are that few survivors, I would highly doubt that two would ever be for sale at the same time. Also, a coin like yours can "disappear" into a collection for 50+ years or more before resurfacing for anyone to even get a chance to purchase it. Details regardless, on the rarity of the coin you have, it has substantial value with so limited surviving specimens. If it were mine, I would dictate its selling price. You have an awesome piece there. I'm kind of jealous (LOL!)

If your coin is a rare variety, or very low mintage number, a Details grade might net you the value at the set grade level (Example : 1811 Half Cent Uncirculated Details - Cleaned may/might/could possibly get the base value of an Uncirculated MS60 if the cleaning was not harsh and the coin still has decent eye appeal. This coin has a low mintage value). The problem we are trying to express is that when it comes to a Details coin, the value is only what a buyer is willing to pay for a problem coin and if it is G details, don't expect to get (or pay) G04 or G06 value. The actual 04 or 06 of the remaining details is minutia. XF Details would also not get XF40 or XF45 price that a non problem coin would as once again the actual 40 or 45 is minutia. IF you had a rare variety or low mintage such as the 1893 S Morgan talked about above, XF details MIGHT/MAYBE get you XF pricing but it is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it, and every buyer will have a different level set in their mind about the most they are willing to pay for Details graded coins, or why they would want a Details coin in the first place. I would go out on a limb and say hardcore collectors, ones collecting top pop coins or putting together registry sets would not even allow their eyeball to get past the word Details on the label. OP, maybe you could tell us what the coin in question is and/or provide us with good clear photos of it so we can try to figure out why the exactness of a numeric grade on a details coin is so important in your case.

I have been collecting for 45+ years and I am just starting to get into a higher level of learning. There is always something to learn and don't ever think you finally know all there is to know about collecting coins. There are so many things to read and learn, it can be overwhelming at times. In your shoes, it is important to learn the basic things well. As you had mentioned, shiny and uncirculated are only a basis of quality, not an overall determining factor of value. Before you submit any coin at your level of knowledge, get the NGC Red Book, and also the Official American Numismatic Grading Standards books (the ANA book is in its 7th edition, but you can still find the 6th edition on eBay for less than $!0). Get used to self grading the details of coins, and get used to mintage values as they relate to overall rarity and value. Those two books as starters will give you a good basic overall sense of collecting and values. From there, you can continue to expand your knowledge. As always, reading these forums, and posting your coins with good quality photos along with your question on here will go a long way towards gaining knowledge as said by the others above.

Thanks for the updated pics! I will let the others who know more than me tell me I am wrong, but I looked up some examples of a 1985 Lincoln Memorial Reverse and what I notice in those photos is that the strikes were early die stage and that the lettering in the motto was further from the rim than on your example. What I note on your coin is the letters in the motto are closer to the rim than normal, I note the pressure ridge from the strike is pronounced and runs through the letters, and that there is minor mechanical doubling in some letters on your coin suggesting it was struck with late stage dies. All those factors combined can make the metal flow from the strike do things it normally would not in the case of new or early stage dies. My guess is with the position of the strike and the wear of the dies not fully controlling the metal flow, that the top of the S in question "flattened out" making it appear like an upside down 2.

I agree with the others on this topic and mostly with Coinbuf's statement. On modern proofs, the TPG holder is typically going to cost more than the coin inside it when things are all said and done, sometimes even in the case of a PF 70 UC depending on how many the mint made. Modern proof values are usually static as the mintage number is well known and they are not placed in circulation so it is not hard for a collector to find high quality proof coins in the marketplace. I will also add in that Sandon's statement is true, but toning or spots can develop on a coin even in the Mint packaging. The process of striking a coin causes a change in the metal of the planchet from the pressure used and there is no way of determining whether or not a specific planchet after being struck will develop toning or spots even in the OGP. It can happen shortly after being packaged or it can develop years after.

It would be helpful if you posted pics of both sides of the coin so a better evaluation could be made. If we knew the year of this coin, that may be the standard shape used for the S in TRUST the year the coin was made, and I would already be leaning heavily toward that.

Hello and welcome! As the others have said, a details grade is for a problem coin. Anything from scratches, cleaning, environmental damage, mechanical damage, whizzing, tooling, wheel marks, rim damage, a bent coin, polished, repairing, holes, physical damage, counterstamps, chopmarks, and just about anything in between that affected the original surface of the coin will get a coin with a details grade. NGC does not assign a numeric grade to a details coin, but rather the general level of the remaining devices. I would not worry about trying to assess yourself a numerical grade to a details coin (unless it is UNC Details or extremely low mintage number coins or rare varieties) as most collectors will pass on details graded coins, and you should expect those that would purchase a details coin to pay at least one to up to three grade levels lower than listed in the price guides. A coin with XF details may only sell at a price in the VG grade level depending on how it is damaged. The more severe the damage, the more visible the damage is to the naked eye, the less someone is going to pay for the coin. A details coin at the G level of the grading spectrum (once again unless it is extremely low mintage) is basically going to end up selling for a price at or below the Poor level in value.

If the OP has no real interest in these coins, at all, I mean like total zero, assuming the coins are all around low end values and there is nothing outstanding in the collection, he may not want to spend any time trying to evaluate the collection (even though some of us would drool just to go through the whole thing one coin at a time). At least from the few provided photos there does not seem to be any high dollar coins involved. If zero interest in these coins is the OP's decision, I would take them in to a reputable dealer and let them do the work on sorting and inspecting and giving a value to the collection. I have reservations about my own collection and where it is going to go when I pass. I basically have nobody to pass them down to, at least nobody with interest in coins and one who would sell the whole thing off immediately and buy a stupidly expensive fast car only to wreck the car.

I'm no expert on Lincoln Proofs, but it could always be possible that a matte proof somehow got accidentally put into circulation. I once got a statehood quarter proof in my change at a McDonalds drive through window. Not likely, but not impossible scenario either.