Oldhoopster

On 10/10/2022 at 6:50 PM, foundit said:

I think Canada is mint error

On 10/10/2022 at 6:50 PM, foundit said:

I think Canada is mint error

The Canadian quarter IS NOT an error of any kind.  Knowledgeable members who understand the minting process have told you it can't occur during the minting process.  It's heavy circulation damage

Edit to add

In order for a coin to be an error you must be able to describe how it occurred during the minting or die making process.  Just because it looks different or you can't explain how the damage occurred doesn't make it an error.  There are countless ways for a coin to be damaged, but only a limited number of ways for an error to occur

Sorry, but all of the coins are damaged.  Not an error of any kind

All coins authenticated as1964 SMS came from the estate of a former mint director.  If you didn't buy yours in the late 80s from that auction or one that had been subsequently slabbed, you don't have one.  None were released through public channels

Quit looking looking at the "get rich from pocket change" sites.  They could have easily written the truth about this coin, but are going for clicks, not educating collectors.  Bunch of junk

There is an  X scratched across the Eagle.  I can't say for certain, but It might be large enough to knock it into a details holder.  Otherwise, I think it's a cool coin

Fakey McFakeface

On 10/4/2022 at 2:44 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Actually, truth be told, the cryptic hieroglyphics accompanying the text meant nothing to me.  It was the picture [photo] of the coin residing comfortably within an official encapsulation with an epitaph comprised of a few glowing decriptors that told a thousand words:  when is the last time you picked up such a slab saw the words EXCESSIVE CORROSION and reached for your wallet?  Has any hobo nickel enjoyed a similar return on investment?  This creation has been deemed a resounding success by the numismatic marketplace and the proof is in its apparent demand.

I understand where you're coming from and am not criticizing your opinion but look at it from my perspective.

Although I would not personally pay big $$ for coins like you mentioned, I absolutely enjoy the history we can learn from them.  How did people conduct commerce 250 years ago? How did they manage when there were significant coin shortages?  How many of the contemporary counterfeits were made out of necessity and how many were from the needed do wells trying to make a profit? What were the relationships between the early government and private mints?  How did people try to get around counterfeiting by making worn pieces like Canadian blacksmith tokens? We can learn a lot through numismatics

This stuff fascinates me and drives my passion to learn more not only about this topic but numerous other areas of numismatics. That's why I place so much value on my library as well as my coins

I also understand that there are many different areas in numismatics for people to pursue their interests.  I've spent my share of time chasing dates and mintmarks and have complete sets of Indians, Buffalos, and Barbers to name a few.  I loved the thrill of the hunt to find that special coin to add to the Album. Even though it's not my thing, I understand your passion to find that high grade French Rooster and that's no less important to you than for me wanting to learn as much history as possible.  We all have our areas of interest that are important to us. Who is to say that some are better than others.

Years ago, I started to put together a BIE date/mm set as a fun side  project.  I was soon distracted and have no idea where they ended up.  Now that you brought up the topic, I think a BIE date set would be a cool, inexpensive, and fun project to work on.  In hindsight, I shouldn't have given up on it

On 10/3/2022 at 4:24 PM, edteach said:

It is a scam in a sense. The site is owned by a coin shop. If you go there to buy a coin and show what you bought from that site you are fine. But start to show coins you bought off of eBay or other site that is not associated with coin-talk and you will get shut down. I was on that site when I started to buy Roman coins and was told to only look on the site to buy. When I showed some of my Roman coin collection they shut down my thread saying this was not the place to show garbage coins from eBay or other scam sources. LOL. I did not say where I got my coins from in the post at all. So it is a scam. If you want to pay the very high prices for this guys coins it may work for you. If you are looking for good info and to ask questions about coins you have bought over the years not from this site you are SOL

I was completely unaware that the owner of CT sold coins and never saw anything that would indicate the owner sold coins or was critical of the coins members had posted.  Maybe I missed something. 

Can you you post any specific links or references so we can see the details?  That would go a long way to corroborate your claim. I do know that at least one of the moderators is a dealer, but can't recall him trashing other  members coins, but then again maybe I missed something.  Any additional details would be very interesting, so please provide what you have.

As others have said, high heat caused the clad layers to separate and form a bubble AFTER it left the mint.  It is not an error

It's a contemporary counterfeit.  18th century Counterfeit British coppers and colonial spanish contemporary counterfeits are highly collectable and in no way related to modern Chinese fake junk made to cheat collectors.

The references to Mr Vlack's book and Eric Newman's collection should be an indication that this is an area worthy of numismatic research and collecting.  If I recall correctly, there is another book or website that classifies these CCs by a number of different types and similar info is out there for Spanish colonial CCs. 

Not sure what you mean by "Some of the more persistently vocal anti-counterfeitists on the Forum may want to have a go at this".  CCs are a legitimate area for numismatic study, research, and collecting. 

Now, if you think $3600 is too much for a Geo III CC, that's a completely different question (I have no opinion on that)

On 9/29/2022 at 11:43 AM, Coinbuf said:

I would say that this photo makes the best case for an undiscovered RPM, but it could also be used to make a case for die deterioration as well.   Very heavy flow lines off the design show the die was well into its lifespan.   Worth a shot to post it on CONECA and see if they think it's worth an in hand look.

@Coinbuf post summarized my thoughts as well.  My first impression was an RPM but I found nothing on Wexlers doubleddie.com or varietyvista.com. The radial flow lines do give me pause, but it looks like something more than die deterioration. 

I'm not going to offer an opinion, because I don't know.  However, I like the suggestion of checking with the CONECA people.

On 9/28/2022 at 1:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

This is what Fred Bass, the late owner of the Strand Book Store, claimed he did.  Does it work in practice?  Well, it never has for me.  And your point is well-taken.  It would defy common sense to do so.  Now, maybe the young students I see walking about, used to and evidently comfortable with the virtual world can do so, but it would never work for me.  Right now, in New York City, there are only a handful of book stores left. BE, Before Eviction, I had the good sense to sell my books, all my books--and even rarely encountered out-of-print paperbacks by authors no longer with us, for a good price. There is no way I could see my way clear to substitute one for the other, particularly ones that are rare and seldom seem, or generally unavailable. I have never seen a Red Book from the 1950's, or earlier, but you're absolutely right, one reference cannot substitute for another. They are all working tools.

***

True story... a visitor from overseas arrived at the Strand one day and the owner instructed his daughter to escort the gentleman upstairs to see Marvin Mondlin in the Rare Book Room.  A giant brouhaha erupted, none of us who were seated close by were privy too.  I was on good terms with Marvin who all concede had a mercurial, unpredictable temperament, and it all boiled down to his abject refusal to part with his collection of indispensable reference books accumulated over a lifetime.  I recall the comment, "I need these the same way a plumber needs his wrench." He could put his foot down with the boss's daughter because #1, he was the Rare Book Dep't. and #2, you cannot prevail against common sense.

This is exactly how I feel about my reference library

I recall the comment, "I need these the same way a plumber needs his wrench."

On 9/28/2022 at 10:13 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

The owner (now deceased) of one of America's largest used book stores, the Strand, with 18 shelf miles of books, had a simple rule he adhered to at home with his personal collection which he estimated to be 2,000 books.  If he brought home a book--he was the principal buyer in the store so he had first dibs--another had to go and that's how he kept his personal library manageable.

I don't think that's applicable to a reference library.  Not including auction catalogs, I have a few hundred true reference books.  I'm not going to get rid of a book used to attribute bust halves because I got a new book on attributing large cents, for example.  These reference books get used (albeit sometimes sparingly).  Why would I want to get rid of a useful tool in attributing coins. 

Maybe that strategy works if you collect books but I see it as very limiting and short sighted for a numismatic reference library, where the books are actually used, not sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

Just my thoughts.  Everybody is welcome to their own opinion.

Not seeing anything. Here is the overlay from www.maddieclashes.com

Sorry, but this is a fake.  This coin type has been frequently counterfeited and copies can be purchased at many tourist locations in the middle east.

It seems to be close to RIC 182 (From wildwinds). I think the obverse legend matches up but it's hard to tell on your coin

https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/severus_alexander/RIC_0182.1.jpg

On 9/27/2022 at 10:25 AM, schism said:

Explain why it isn't. 

Because it can't occur during the minting process.

A coin isn't an error because you CAN'T explain how the damage occurred.  A coin is an error because you CAN explain how it occurred during the minting process.  The simple answer to anyone who knows the minting process is that these are obviously damaged. 

People giving you answers are very knowledgeable of the minting process. Some have decades of collecting experience.  When all of these experienced collectors tell you the same thing, do you think they are just blowing smoke at you or messing with the new guy?  No, they are giving you factual info from years of experience to help you.

Sorry to sound rude, but the damage on both your coins should be obvious to even a new collector who has spent a minimal amount of time researching the minting process

Go to www.doubleddie.com and look at the tabs explaining how coins and dies are made. 

Or you can keep insinuating that multiple members on this site are messing with you and giving you inaccurate info, which is ABSOLUTELY false and a good way to end up on ignore lists 

Or, if you don't like the answers you're getting, work with your local coin dealer, or find another site that will give you the answers you want to hear.

On 9/25/2022 at 1:42 PM, schism said:

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to take better pics. so the gouges (yes I meant gouges), I'll try and give you the same explanation that I got from the coin dealer. I assumed the egde was damage. From what Ii was told, if someone or something post mint caused the edges, there would be damage somewhere in the other end of the edge or within that proximity. The error was caused by the what indents the reeds. Because if you observe the entire edge you'd see smoothing of the edge and a few other oddities on the edge meaning, whatever indents the reeds in the coin. I was given the the name of what puts those reeds ok on coins. Sorry forgot what the guys said that was called. I'm a total newb so I do apologize for the ignorance. The explanation made sense. Of course I'm a newb so It made a little sense. I'll send a few more quality pics. I'd like some feed back on the doubling and the die crack. Thanks again

Sorry, but there is no doubling or die cracks.  As has been said previously by knowledgeable collectors, the gouges are contact marks from circulation wear and damage, not errors.  NO NEED for more pics.  

Die cracks are raised on the surface of a coin, not recessed. 

The edge dents are damage, nothing more

Reeding is formed by the collar during striking. When the reeded edge of one coin hits another coin, it can leave a contact mark.  I don't see any marks like this on your coin. Regardless, they are considered damage, not errors

IN GOD WE TRUST is not doubled, it is due to die wear and not an error

Hope this helps

On 9/24/2022 at 8:34 PM, EagleRJO said:

Sounds like you had some interesting chemistry lab sessions back in the college days. 

I did a graduate thesis, so had pretty much free range in the chem and materials labs and with the analytical equipment (as long as you didn't blow anything up)

BTW. at 2850 F, a clad quarter will completely melt and soak into a piece refractory brick.

On 9/24/2022 at 10:27 PM, VKurtB said:

Fume hoods exist for a reason. You need to have some chemical fumes so the students hung over going to an 8AM Monday science course know they’re in the science building. 

I did a lot of work with anhydrous ammonia. You know very quickly if your system isn't completely sealed.

On 9/24/2022 at 11:40 AM, EagleRJO said:

That seems so counter intuitive. You would think something just not readily visible was still there to reveal a worn off date or mark.

Ferric chloride (Nic-a-date) etches the copper from the 75Cu25Ni alloy.  Nitric acid also works well. I raised dates on a lot of slick coins using concentrated HNO3 back in college.  Both work on nickels.  However, I could never get HNO3 to work on 90% SL quarters

I ordered them through 2018, then gave up. I got tired of returning poor quality sets for replacements and the prices were increasing.  If I want one now, I just buy it on the secondary market where it's usually cheaper than the mint

On 9/23/2022 at 10:43 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

In a recent post, a venerable long-time member did the unthinkable, and I responded in kind.  He casually mentioned the title of a book I never even knew existed: French Red Book.  I acknowledged the post, and moved on.  Days later, unsure if it was a joke of some kind, I looked it up and was shocked to find, it existed! Even more shocking, I ordered a copy!  And I intend to read it.  [Yes, you may quote me for attribution!]

To those members who had long ago concluded I am not a numismatist, collector or even a hoarder--because I do not own a single coin-related book, you may wish to reconfigure your thinking. A suggestion was made, I investigated the matter, and with a few well-placed clicks, am on my way to becoming an arguably informed member in my tiny niche of the numismatic universe.

I have collected French 20-franc gold roosters for years, amassed a top collection one other  member here, not given to praise too often, allowed was a "significant achievement," and therefore am all but constrained to thank your friend and mine--he who monitors the ebb and flow of the Crimson Tide--as well as our hosts, for unwittingly providing the medium, i.e. the Chat Board, by which I received this life-altering message. Yes, a book!  What's wrong with that? [Everyone is acutely aware I embroider, embellish and am given to exaggeration!]  😉  🐓 

If anyone is interested, I believe these are the books QA is referencing. I have both volumes and find  the useful.  QA, please make the correction if you didn't get Gadoury

On 9/22/2022 at 12:36 PM, VKurtB said:

Allen Berman is one of my favorite dealers. 

I've ordered from him a number of times but only had a chance to talk to him at shows occasionally. He was very nice and willing to share info.  I learned a lot from our brief conversations and really like and respect that from a dealer.  Great guy

On 9/21/2022 at 7:26 PM, VKurtB said:

I read and use, IN WRITTEN FORM, the word ‘verdigris’ fairly often. What I don’t encounter is the word said. Anyone want to help me with the phonetics?

I had the same problem when I started with ancients. Had the books and was familiar with all the players, just never heard the names spoken. I called tet-TRI-cus , Tet-tri-cus, vic-tor-I-nus was incorrect as VIC-tor-i-nus, and had wasn't even close to Elagabalus.  Dealer Allen Berman helped me at a show and I am ever greatful. It was a little embarrassing as I was getting good at attribution and used references like RIC but couldn't pronounce the names.