GoldFinger1969

On 2/13/2023 at 12:10 PM, Prethen said:

RWB, I don't dispute the veracity of the meaning of AU by the classic definition. Even my version (6th edition) of the ANA Grading Standards book states in the Notes on page 307 for $3 gold pieces: "Coins will not always have the exact stated amount of mint luster, strike, or absence of marks....". This note is not found for all series (although I haven't done a large search on that). What I'm finding, is even though an AU58 will have the slightest amount of rub on the cheek, the fields will be subdued and have luster mainly around the rim. Something seems to be going on in general with $3 gold pieces where even the grading standards take notice. This is the part I'm curious about.

So you're saying there's NO luster or hardly any as opposed to luster breaks ?

It seems like if you excel in one area -- like minimal bag marks -- you can survive a large negative in another area (low or no luster, for example) and stay in the higher grade areas. 

On 2/12/2023 at 9:00 AM, olympicsos said:

But I will say the one good gold coin design that was completely ruined for no reason was the Indian head $10. It’s a very simple clean design that has lots of potential. The headdress just kills what is otherwise a beautiful design. Not only that, that design would have a lot of political controversy today. I would love to see a Saint Gaudens Liberty Head $10 with no headdress. 

Same portrait, just without the headdress ? 

I believe there was another design with a crown of flowers; don't think they made a pattern of that just a plaster mold or some drawings. 

At this point, let's let Lauren get back to us.  We've given her MORE than enough information, let's see what she comes back with.  For all we know, it could be thousands of regular face-value pennies, nickels, and dimes, some silver, some not.

We'll see if the collection has any numismatic silver or gold or other rare stuff worth 3 figures, let alone 4 or 5. 

There's enough good information here that in the future....with any more "I inherited...." threads....we just link to here.

No sense in re-typing all this stuff time after time....

On 7/5/2022 at 12:18 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Silvergold, what's up with your DE purchase/exchange ?

Bump......

On 2/8/2023 at 6:20 AM, olympicsos said:

But I will also say that in terms of the pre-Renaissance coinage designs, the Draped Bust is the most artistic of all of them. 

What about it really appeals to you ?  I think the obverse has its plusses but the reverse eagle is kind of blah.  

I think the Liberty Head DE has a blah reverse and a nice clean powerful obverse.  I think the Saint-Gaudens has two powerful sides, with Liberty striding on the obverse and the eagle in flight on the reverse.

Come to think about it....the Saint eagle could be the 1st eagle that really was powerful and looked intimidating and impressive.  TR had complained specifically about the birds on many of our coins.

On 2/9/2023 at 7:36 PM, rrantique said:

This was the Type Sets sold like 40-50 years ago ??

On 2/10/2023 at 9:49 AM, KarenHolcomb said:

@GoldFinger1969@GoldFinger1969Yes, I don't think I'd like the iphone at all. I think the Pixel has something from Samsung inside of it. Or maybe it was the previous editions that did.  Can't quite recall. I didn't even know it until I was looking into this phone. I like to have my controls at the bottom of my screen and I think Samsung are up top. Or I didn't know I could change them years ago when I had one. I just didn't like that so I sent it back and stayed with LG until my 3a.

Pixel uses Android which is a Google software/OS product.

On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

 Everywhere ive been they didnt knew about how rare is this year, so im not that sure they knew it back in 1960s. 

The people you talked to didn't know much about Saint-Gaudens DEs, then.  The 1921 has been rare for 80 years and its relative ranking has been pretty constant over that time, a rarity.  In other words, no hoards have been found to increase the supply -- others have fallen or risen, but its remained the same in rarity indices.

On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

I understand that. Im curious if there are more of this copy in the world, or if NGC received any.

I doubt it.  It was probably one of several or maybe a sole copy.  We rarely saw thousands of fakes of a particular coin or year or mintage at once -- too easy to detect.

On 2/10/2023 at 3:44 AM, LiviuD said:

Ive been to some bullion dealers and nobody wanted to have a proper look at this coin, from the begining they said is fake until one expert listen my story and had a look with the magnifier. He was mystified by the way it was made. He said it is struck proper, some issues from original one are present on this one. He said it was very expensive to strike this coin and is not worth it, only if they struck thousand. 

Honestly, I doubt a bullion dealer would know about Saint-Gaudens counterfeits.  There is nothing "mystifying" about how this coin was made.  It's a BAD copy.  It's not like the Omega High Reliefs.   

Of course some "issues" from the original authentic Saint are present here -- but just a few.  It's not even a good fake and I doubt it was expensive to strike the coin.  No evidence they struck thousands or even hundreds or even dozens -- the dealer was just making stuff up and speculating.

The only thing to do is to ascertain if the coin is made from real gold and at least you have 1 ounce of bullion.

Your initial hunch was correct:  it's a fake.  But if it's 1 ounce of gold, not a total loss.

On 2/9/2023 at 1:37 AM, LiviuD said:

It was in possesion of my family from 1970's ish (thats for sure)...from what my ouncle told me, it was a gift received by my grand grand father (he worked for France goverment)...maybe this is a story with peanuts :)) 

Here's the thing....it's possible it was just treated like a regular gold bullion coin worth $120 - $1,000 at that time (depending on when acquired).  But a 1921 Saint is a key date, one of the Top 4 Saint coins in terms of condition rarity in Mint State and very tough even in AU grades.  

Even if this coin was graded AU-53 it's worth tens of thousands of dollars.  I doubt it would have been given so freely.

On 2/9/2023 at 8:24 PM, LaurenDabdoub said:

So i recently inherited my uncle's very extensive coin collection. thousands and thousands of coins. Both US and international. Most of which are labeled or categorized in some way shape or form (either by year, country, currency type, special notes, or combination of the above) Not to mention all of the ones just thrown in the jars that he had yet to organize. I've hardly made a dent in documenting them, but this collection is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions. I  am wary to send them off any where or take them to someone i don't trust without knowing everything i 'm giving them. Someone who knows a lot more than i do could easily fool me into thinking an incredibly valuable coin is worth nothing. Any tips on approaching how to approach this collection in order to minimize the risk of getting ripped off? 

Thanks!

As with most collections, 80% of the value is probably in 20% of the coins.  Could be 90% of the value in 10% of the coins.

You need to find out if any of the coins are certified/graded -- if you've seen it, you'd know right away.  Beyond that, you should look for the most popular types of gold and/or silver coins, which would have most of the $$$ values.

Report back and/or send us some pics. 

On 2/9/2023 at 1:37 AM, LiviuD said:

It was in possesion of my family from 1970's ish (thats for sure)...from what my ouncle told me, it was a gift received by my grand grand father (he worked for France goverment)...maybe this is a story with peanuts :)) 

Show it to a local dealer, I'm sure he won't charge you.  Pictures can deceive, but I rarely have my Spidey-Sense go off that much on a Saint.

Let us know what happens.

I think we worry a bit too much at times about storage and the like.  It's a metal, not a vacuum-sealed room dealing with the Ebola virus or Andromeda Strain. 

On 2/8/2023 at 8:44 PM, VKurtB said:

Is all that REALLY what someone motivated by artistic issues would call “improvement”? Sure, technoweenies would, but… Digital artwork, not plasters; lasered master hubs, no more reduction machines; and don’t forget single squeeze hub and die pressings. All the wonder has been squeezed out as well. 

I don't disagree Kurt -- and you forgot the Janvier lathe (I have to goto YouTube and see how it "shrinks" a larger model -- but like they say, you can't hold back progress. 

It's fake.  I'm 99.9% sure....I don't know grading well, but I know Saints. 

The eyes look like someone who pulled an all-nighter and was on No-Doze or something....the left leg and foot are poorly struck (and that's being generous)....the edge lettering is terrible....and the surface looks gold glittery to fool someone.

Stars are mushy....hair looks like it needs conditioner .....gown wrinkles are exaggerated to match the light folds on a real Saint-Gaudens.

I'm rarely this definitive but this one smelled bad after 5 seconds of looking at it.  

Where did you get it ?

Nice coin....I won't venture a guess since I am totally unfamiliar with the characteristics and grading variables concerning this coin.

On 2/7/2023 at 5:32 PM, World Colonial said:

The coin you have is severely damaged and is at most worth 10C, if anyone will even accept it.

SOLD !!!!  

On 2/6/2023 at 2:33 PM, Kimin said:

I have a 1968 silver planchet clad in silver that's 2.56 grams and what appears to be struck with no collar around the die. You can make out the date with your eye and it's a little bit larger than a penny and just shy of a nickel in dia. And it's about half the thickness of a dime.  It does have the reeds on the edges. I know there was a 1968 oddity like this one but without the collar error. I'm wondering if this was struck first then the error fixed and then the other one went through. I also know that there were three other examples from 1965 that were like this and sold for pretty good money I think like 9k or 12 k. If any one wants to take a stab at what they think I may or may not have please feel free to chime in thanks 

A silver planchet from who or what ?  What was this coin intended to be ?

Where do you see sales for $9,000 - $12,000 ?  Do you have a link ? 

Welcome to the forum, BTW. 

On 2/7/2023 at 1:09 PM, RWB said:

Pres. Ford thought it was a waste of money -- especially when there were no gold or silver coins to assay. Now the precious metal planchets are bought from outside sources (well...some have inside offices, others use tents, or a combination of sleeping bags and umbrellas - but I digress). Contractors certify meeting specifications, and the assay lab at West Point makes random checks to verify.

The tolerances of today's equipment and the digitalization and use of lasers and stuff like that to etch designs and precision striking.....the increase in the MS-68/69/70 coins is proof alone the quality of the striking today  is light-years improved vs. 100 years ago.

On 2/7/2023 at 6:38 AM, olympicsos said:

Not since 1980

Interesting...so we still had it for decades after gold coin production ceased in the 1930's.

I wonder why no more since 1980....maybe quality control is so good that we don't need it ? 

Good questions, Seamus....and BTW, Welcome !! 

Stains definitely detract from a coin's grade.  How much, I'll let the experts chime in.  It depends on the rest of the coin and how noticeable the "stain" is.   Numerically, I would expect something like on your dime to maybe cost the coin 2-4 points on a grade, assuming it doesn't grade Details or move it from MS to AU or AU to XF.

Also...is it a naturally-occuring thing like a copper spot ?  Or is it man-made ?  Big and noticeable in a prime area of the coin...or small and out-of-the-way in a corner of the coin not as prominent ?

I believe those are all important.  The guys/gals with more experience than me should have the final say.

On 2/3/2023 at 2:41 PM, J P M said:

You can do all that with your coins in the registry on the NGC Collectors Society site. You can keep track of what you paid. What NGC estimates the coin at. You can also put in what your estimate of the coin is.  

But I can't do that in the main NGC site where my "Competitive Coins" inventory list is ?

I hate to goto this other site and then have to re-enter dozens of coins.