GoldFinger1969

On 3/8/2023 at 12:44 PM, J P M said:

I would love to go to a show. I have not been in the right place at the right time so far. Next year I will try to plan my travels differently if posable to try to pick up some shows.   

The Bay State show near you is a nice regional and appears to be growing the last 5-7 years.

On 3/8/2023 at 12:16 PM, VKurtB said:

I have not seen ANY major coin show that did NOT have a nice turnout. Not even one. This should not be a surprise to anyone. Even this one in Phoenix was “decent”. It wasn’t “in line out the door waiting to register”, but good enough. One measure: it was hard to find a seat at the seating area next to the food concessionaire at peak meal times. Even the dealers (all tables sold out) skewed heavily southwest. I was taking ID’s from people (enhanced security) and Arizona, Nevada and California predominated.  Bottom line: stay online if that’s what floats your boat, but we’ll carry on in the real world without “face diapers”, thank you very much. 

I'm sure the show administrators have all the numbers on dealers and tables....but what about retail traffic ?

Some nice exhibits.....nice pics, Charmy. 

I remember at FUN 2020 they had the $100,000 note with Woodrow Wilson.  I have pics SOMEWHERE, probably on my smartphone back 3 years. 

Reading that book on the gold clauses, I believe the largest Gold Certificate denomination was $10,000 with Chase on it.

Do people really go to these shows and say "Hey, here's 200 pennies, are any of them worth anything ?" 

Maybe Wizard Supply has something that can store them ?

They sell various "shoebox like" boxes that hold currency and other stuff.

Some interesting tidbits from American Default ; I've made it through a few chapters so far:

• FDR while campaigning in the final weeks of the 1932 campaign...was cagey and deceptive and objected when attacked as being a "devaulationist" or willing to tinker with the value of gold.  While he did not offer any outright hard policy prescriptions or promises or red lines, he did cover his you-know-what by saying he had no plans to do what the Hoover campaign attacked him on.  Of course, once in office he did a 180.
• Once FDR was elected but before sworn-in, lame-duck Hoover tried to coordinate policies with the incoming FDR team to stop bank failures, currency and gold drain, etc.  But FDR wouldn't commit to anything so Hoover's hands were tied.  FDR's team really didn't look good as they ended up doing pretty much what the Hoover folks were saying they could have done weeks or months sooner.
• A week after the Emergency Banking Act was passed by FDR during his first days, the government sold $800 MM in Treasuries....WITH the gold clause they were eliminating elsewhere !  .
• After the EBA was passed, gold holdings continued to decline.  By mid-March it was estimated that about $1 BB was being hoarded in gold coins, gold certificates, and currency.  They fell $188 MM in 3 weeks from the time of the EBA.
• On March 3rd, 1933.....the FRB NY lost $250 MM in gold and $150 MM in currency and fell below the 40% backing of currency with gold ($250 MM short of the target).

I'm not as good with Liberty Head DEs as I am with Saints, but I'd be wary of buying that coin.  It looks a bit mushy on the strike but it could be circulation wear.

Wish they didn't place the coin on what looks like "rough" nylon......if not holdered, should be on velvet or something that won't scratch the coin.

On 3/6/2023 at 2:48 PM, Tigerbait said:

Thank everyone for their input.  I am going to pass on the coin but if I can be of assistance, let me know.  Chuck

Did they give you any more information on the coin...if they had it graded informally by a dealer, their estimate of the value, etc ?

On 3/5/2023 at 12:22 PM, zadok said:

...just what the hobby needs, another meaningless survey....

The heck with the survey, I think for someone like me it's good to know who alot of these people are since I haven't spent as much time or years in this field as many of you.  

The articles are pretty interesting, too.  I'm sort of surprised that David Hall was so negative on the possibility of computerized grading....he talks about the $1 MM they spent 30 years ago.  Today's 4K cameras plus AI GPUs and advanced CPUs have to have closed the gap.  It has for self-driving cars as we get closer there.

My god, they didn't even have the x486 chip from Intel I believe when they tried their computerized grading back then.  It's like comparing a Sony Trinitron to a modern 4K TV. 

On 3/4/2023 at 5:26 PM, Sandon said:

1854 Type 2 gold dollar, NGC graded AU 53. I'd grade it Ch. XF (45), but it is better struck than most coins of this type.

Why so much tougher on the grade....you not only are 8 points lower, you take it out of the AU range.

Why do you think it is that overgraded ?

Put your phone's auto-stabilization on or use a micro-tripod.  It shouldn't look that blurry.

Here's a photo of one of my ASEs with my Galaxy S4 held by my hands:

On 3/4/2023 at 12:06 PM, RWB said:

Meaning --- there was no longer any international "standard" or valuation fix to monies. The purpose of an internal standard price of gold was gone, also. The conservative-pragmatic approach to such a situation is to get rid of something (especially an expense) that no longer operates or is not needed.

At the time, it was probably needed.  I don't think a gold standard works today and is impractical in dealing with exogenous shocks (2008, 2020).

Forcing sales of gold is entirely separate IMO and my main beef with FDR.

On 3/3/2023 at 10:02 PM, RWB said:

In 1933 the only other "country" on a circulation gold exchange standard was South Africa -- which was a dependency of Britain.

Yeah, the book mentions some of the smaller "holdouts" but once the U.S. and U.K. went off that was all she wrote.

On 3/3/2023 at 7:17 PM, RWB said:

The free market in gold was already above $27 when the surrender EO was published. You're somehow confusing trying to maintain a gol;d standard agains the entire rest of the world, with imminent failure of the American economy..... I do not understand the narrowness.

I just look at it as breaking one's word.  Doing lots of reading on the months before and after EO 6102 and it's fascinating.  I'll report back when I do more DD.

I wonder how Saudi Arabai, the folks at Bretton Wood, or anybody could really "trust" the U.S. government on a gold pledge after what they did in 1933 ?

On 3/3/2023 at 1:14 PM, Sandon said:

  They appear to be lower end uncirculated 1883-CC and 1884-CC dollars that would likely grade in the MS 62-63 range.  As dealers now sell them for $300 or more, a price that I regard as inflated considering that most of their original mintages still exist in uncirculated condition, some collectors might think them worthy of certification, though I wouldn't. 

Even with Carson City being hot and likely to stay hot in the future (if not at the recent pace) ?

Eagle, TRADITIONAL commemoratives appreciated in value because they commemorated important items -- like assasinated President McKinley or Centenniels or other anniversaries -- and were often made of gold and/or silver.

MODERN commemoratives you should assume may fall to bullion or melt value over time and anything you pay above that is fair game to disappear.

Comemoratives somehow resisted the Coin Bear Market of the 1980's and actually appreciated somehow (or at least an index of them did) -- most of these were traditional commemoratives struck decades or a century ago.  They soared and many people have been hoping lightning would strike twice.

FWIW, I actually like the Augustus Saint-Gaudens National Parks commemoratives which have some of his patterns in silver (and gold, which I haven't bought )( and often sell for steep premiums to bullion silver (less so for gold).

On 3/3/2023 at 11:06 AM, Zebo said:

Wasn’t this for 2020?  I just finished the survey for the latest survey just yesterday or the day before.

Yeah, but I think the list was re-done recently for 2022.  I just saw it posted on other sites and with a free digital link to check out all the people, figured I would post it.

I don't recall a thread on this 2 years or so ago so I figured why not. 

If there are others on that list who are here at the NGC Forums under codenames, please feel free to identify yourselves (if you wish to do so).  I don't know many people in the coin business/hobby, and I understand that many people under different "names" at CU were on the list so maybe there are some here at NGC similarly listed but unknown to me.

A bunch of NGC execs did make it, well-deserved.  People involved in the formation of the TPGs/CAC were also prominent.

I never would object to getting a low-grade or impaired coin if it was one that was within my budget. 

If I ever get an MCMVII High Relief Saint, I doubt I'll be able to buy a MS coin, almost certainly an AU.

Great job, Sandon.....yeah, even I -- a non-expert in grading -- saw the deficient "O."  

On 3/1/2023 at 9:23 AM, World Colonial said:

I don't have my 1963 or 1965 Red Books with me now. 

A quick off-topic...do you think I can find some re-binder on the internet who would re-bind my 1970 Red Book ? 

It's peeling away from the binder and I really want to preserve it and not have it fall apart those rare times when I open it to check a 1970'ish price.

On 3/1/2023 at 9:19 AM, Sandon said:

   "Just" for @GoldFinger1969, there were 46 different St. Gaudens double eagles in the 1997 Pittman sale.  Here's an accounting of the better ones:

Date                   Akers' Grade                Year Purchased, Cost                 Price Realized 10/97

MCMVII, HR      Unc.                                1947, $100                                 $8,800

1908-S              XF-AU                             1950, $105                                 $2,860

1909-D              Ch. AU                            1950, $95                                   $2,200

1913                  Gem Proof                      1950, $127.50                            $74,250

1913-S              Ch. AU                            1955, $55                                   $1,760

1920-S              Ch. AU                            1958, $255                                 $30,800

1922-S              Ch. AU                            1962, $250                                 $770

1924-D              Ch. AU                            1956, $65                                   $1,870

1924-S              AU                                   1956, $325                                 $3,300

1925-D             Unc.                                 1958, $150                                 $12,100

1925-S             Ch. AU                             1955, $100                                 $10,725

1926-D             AU                                   1956, $500                                  $4,400

1926-S             Unc.                                 1956, $500                                 $3,575

1927-S             AU                                   1956, $300                                  $8,800

1929                XF-AU                              1956, $250                                  $5,950

 Note that in the 1950s, the 1926-D and S and the 1927-S were regarded as rarer and more desirable than the Gem Matte Proof 1913 or the 1920-S!                                                                                                                                                

Thanks for this, Sandon ....yes, rankings were JUST changing in the 1950's as the European Hoards made their way back to the States.

The MCMVII HR price of $100 was dirt-cheap for even a low-60's UNC grade in 1947.  I'll have to check other auction prices but I would have thought it was closer to $200 or $300.  But maybe that was for a Gem UNC.

On 3/1/2023 at 9:20 AM, World Colonial said:

"Middle management" to me in a company of that size is probably $500K.

Huh ?  You think a middle-level manager at a big Fortune 100 company like EK made $500,000 a year ?  I'm thinking less than 1/10th that amount in the early-1960's.  You said the median income was no more than $5,000 in the late-1950's/early-1960's.  Triple it and you are in the $15,000 - $20,000 range would have been a nice income for that time.

I think only 1 or 2 CEOs made over $1,000,000 at the time, including Bethlehem Steel.  Most CEOs probably made $250,000 - $500,000 a year.  Athletes made a bit less.  Only Hollywood stars made more besides self-employed people who owned their own business.