GoldFinger1969

On 8/9/2023 at 1:43 PM, Sandon said:

  In my opinion, no. Collect coins, not grading service labels.  There doesn't seem to be much of a market for these special labels a few years after the sets are issued.

Yeah....unless YOU like the item in the grade and price it lists for, don't chase labels.  Always assume that hot premiums can fade over time.  The 1995-W ASE is the exception to the exception. 

I'm interested in Big Picture, Macro stuff.  The demographics of the hobby.....the number of people attending national, regional, and local shows....membership in the professional and trade associations.....do we know how many dealers there are ?....are local WE BUY GOLD/SILVER types increasing or decreasing (you now have publicly-traded pawn shops).....internet registered users, active bidders, sales and auctions.....and other stuff like this.

Now, I know some of you say that the folks who run or own these enterprises have business and competitive reasons for not divulging this information.....but hey...this 'aint the Manhattan Project.  If ExxonMobil and Chevron can give out refining data weekly....if companies can reveal sales and profits quarterly (with sometimes monthly updates)....these folks can give an idea on Big Picture trends.

Is the coin collecting hobby GROWING...SHRINKING....or STABLE.....is it sports cards, NFTs, or stamps ?

Everything I read is anectdotal or guestimates of an individual with little factual data.  I'd like to see some of the governing bodies and associations pick up the slack.

On 8/12/2023 at 7:39 PM, RWB said:

Do you mean Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto?

No, I meant General Tomoyuki Yamasheeta, an army guy executed for war crimes in 1946.  Yamamoto I know got shot down in the Pacific.

I changed the spelling but it didn't hold for some reason. 

But thanks for the article info ! 

Edit:  Now I see why, the spell-check thinks I am writing a bad word !!  I mispelled it with "e" instead of "i" to escape the Artificial Intelligence which isn't that intelligent !! 

Japanese/Philipine Gold Hoard:  I saw a History Channel show called "History's Greatest Mysteries" and it focused on lost gold hoarded/hid during WW II.   Believed to be hoarded by Japan's General Yamasheeta during WW II, most of this is believed to be statues, gold bars, gold nuggets, etc. 

Not much talk about gold coins, but who knows ?   Much less documentation than plundered gold in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaa's_gold

On 8/12/2023 at 10:38 AM, zadok said:

...no clue i just remember seeing it at the ana in chicago couple years ago...proof 69 coin....im sure there is some reference to coins in tyrant collection somewhere....

If it's PF69, must be the Trompeter/Morse coin.

On 8/12/2023 at 10:27 AM, zadok said:

has the myth/search for the 1841-0 $5 gold half eagles been resolved to everyone's satisfaction?...has the 50 or so that "might" be out there been accounted for or discounted well enuf to put the issue to bed?...minor mystery but was a big deal once....

Is that the coin that belonged to the DuPonts ?

On 8/11/2023 at 1:54 PM, zadok said:

...tied with the Tyrant coin, would be interesting what it sold for???....

Was that sold publicly or in a private transaction ?  The only other PF69 MCMVII UHR is the Trompeter/Morse coin which JA and others think is more of a 68 or 68+.  Originally, it got a 67 or 67+.

On 8/11/2023 at 9:53 AM, Henri Charriere said:

"...without intermediaries such as banks or financial institutions," and presumably Federal regulatory agencies like the S.E.C.  Since the dawn of civilization, cavemen and cavewomen have managed to get along just fine without non-tangible soft assets. Incidentally, if something goes wrong, I can walk into any bank branch and speak to a platform assistant. Who do you go see when your ka.app goes kaput?

Spammer...ignore. 

On 7/20/2023 at 2:18 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

MCMVII Ultra High Relief Clapp/Eliasberg/Bass:  It's up for sale in Part 4 of the Bass sale.  Thanks to Zadok for jogging my memory.  Here's the listing: https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-ultra-high-relief-inverted-edge-lettering-pr69-pcgs-judd-1909-pollock-2003-jd-4-high-r7-pcgs-/a/1363-9082.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Here's articles on the coin: https://coinweek.com/bass-collection-1907-ultra-high-relief-double-eagle-at-heritage/

https://www.numismaticnews.net/us-coins/1907-ultra-high-relief-double-eagle-takes-flight This coin is PR-69.  But I think it COULD be the finest of the MCMVII UHRs because the other PR-69, the Trompeter-Morse coin, was originally graded PR-67 and then got a 2-point upgrade over the years and most grade it PR-67+ or PR-68.  The Bloomfield, "Wall Street Bond Trader", Hein-Simpson, Trompeter-Morse, and Browning coins are the Top 5 but now the Eliasburg/Bass coin might be able to leapfrog them if the 69 grade is legit. The Bloomfield PR-68 CAC w/Inverted Edge Lettering, was bought in April 2021 for $4.1MM by an anonymous buyer.  In December 2021 a PCGS PR-68 CAC went for $4.75 MM as HA sold the coin to GC on behalf of our good friend EC.The Norweb UHR was sold for $3.6 MM in February 2021 and is PF-68 NGC w/Normal Edge Let tering.If the grade on this coin is solid for a 69 or even a strong 68+ (with or without CAC), it could/should go for over $5 MM.  We'll have to see, but UHR's have been hot the last 2 years or so. 

The coin went for $4,320,000 including bp.  I guess that's about par with recent sales, but considering the grade (PF 69) and pedigree (Bass), I thought it might hit the $5 MM mark.

On 7/20/2023 at 2:18 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

MCMVII Ultra High Relief Clapp/Eliasberg/Bass:  It's up for sale in Part 4 of the Bass sale.  Thanks to Zadok for jogging my memory.   Here's the listing:  https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-ultra-high-relief-inverted-edge-lettering-pr69-pcgs-judd-1909-pollock-2003-jd-4-high-r7-pcgs-/a/1363-9082.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515  Here's articles on the coin:  https://coinweek.com/bass-collection-1907-ultra-high-relief-double-eagle-at-

The coin is now at $2,850,000 with 21 hours left to bid......

On 7/20/2023 at 7:44 PM, Henri Charriere said:

On a, for me, more serious note... what makes this topic particularly interesting is the fact that the U.S. purchased Alaska from the Russians only 32 years earlier (dubbed "Seward's Folly") and it remained a territory until granted statehood in 1959. Relying solely on memory -- I believe Juneau was, and may still be, accessible only by water up until recent times, making the reference to a "steamer" in the letter, and not rail access, a possible financial consideration though not explicitly stated. Great piece of correspondence!  

If we had invested the $7,000,000 for the sale in stocks, it'd be worth $18 trillion today.  

Speaking of Roosters (and chickens...and hens.... )....

On 8/8/2023 at 6:01 PM, jimbo27 said:

I just received an e mail from David Lawrence Rare Coins about upcoming auctions and they now have CAC graded coins for auction. These are the first I have seen and just thought it was interesting. I don't know if I would bid on one or not, maybe if I liked it.

They NEVER had CAC coins before ? 

WC...maybe it wore down alot in 3 years because it IS gold, much softer than nickel, etc. ?

At least you bought a certified, graded coin.  Better to pay a bit more and know the coin is legit, than take a chance on a raw one and have the downside at zero. 

On 8/7/2023 at 6:44 PM, Henri Charriere said:

(Apparently wires got crossed.  My solicitation for your opinion is solely in regard to the matter of the 1930-S Double Eagle PCGS graded AG-03 CAC, an item of interest introduced by the OP onto this thread about one page back.)

Henri, WC did reference the AG-03 CAC 1930-S Saint-Gaudens above. 

On 8/7/2023 at 5:58 PM, World Colonial said:

Agree  I wouldn't want it at all, but your revised price range would probably find numerous buyers, assuming it doesn't actually sell at the current ask price or somewhere between your prices and the current ask.

The actual grade is so low...and the devices so worn and flattened...unless a dealer knows he has a buyer for this coin to flip, I can't see who would pay that much.  Anybody who collects Saints and knows the 1930-S grade distribution must know for a bit more $$$ he/she can get a much much nicer-looking coin.

This is like being a Ferrari or Porsche collector....and including in your collection a car with multiple dents, dings, and accident hits. 

On 8/7/2023 at 5:55 PM, World Colonial said:

PCGS Coin Facts records two sales of an MS-63 in 2022 (both at $200K+) with the prior sale before it @ $120K in 2020, also as a '63".  So, it's had a huge price increase.

That's the Covid-19 2020-21 effect when everything -- low-priced and Trophy Coins -- soared in price.  Though, when talking Trophy Coins and 6-figure or up prices, it really is dependent on whether or not you have 2 or more whales who want the coin. 

Just ask our own resident Orca, EC !! 

On 8/7/2023 at 5:55 PM, World Colonial said:

As for my opinion on the coin, it's dreck.I don't care that it's a five figure coin or quite scarce.  I understand the affordability challenge but don't believe the coin is as hard to buy as the Coin Facts data indicates.  It must have sold elsewhere (by dealers) more often.If 50 exist, coins in this price range aren't actually that hard to buy, usually coming up for sale at least twice/year and probably more than that.My opinion on the coin isn't just the quality or the price, though that's part of it.  It's that it looks totally out of place in any probable set of the series.I'd never buy other  very low quality coins of other series either, but at least these look more "normal" and it's not unusual for collectors to put together date, date  variety, or typesets in this type of quality for silver/copper US coinage. I'd also assume this coin would be difficult to sell later, for the price paid.

I agree. 

The only saving grace/weird thing is that the coin CAC'ed.  Is that the lowest grade ever for a CAC sticker ?  Is JA saying the coin maybe should be a few grades higher ? 

On 8/7/2023 at 1:36 PM, Henri Charriere said:

FWIW... To sum up... not a single eccentric has offered to bid on this coin -- whose life on the auction block was discreetly extended another week -- and it remains at $60,000. 

Again....EF or AU vs. MS is one thing....I think that coin is easily affordable to a very wealthy collector but same collector can pay 2-5x as much and get a good-looking one.

If it wants a buyer among the masses, probably needs the price reduced to $15,000 - $25,000.  

JMHO.

On 8/7/2023 at 12:19 PM, zadok said:

due to softness of gold it wouldnt be unexpected, question is did people actually spend $20 gold that much?

As RWB wrote in his book and others have posted here....the useage of Saints was DRAMATICALLY reduced compared to Liberty DEs.  The Bowers LH DE book documents how the San Francisco Mint was much more active with gold coins and DEs being used not only for trade, but for banking settlements, commerce, retail, entertainment venues, etc.

Ironically, that Saint is from San Francisco but long after the gold boom and heyday of DE gold coin usage.  Smaller gold coins, as written here, were much more frequently used during the striking of both types of DEs.

I have an ET Matrix small digital scale that is maybe 4" x 2"...maximum of 300 grams.  Perfect for me.  Got it off Amazon.

On 8/6/2023 at 8:12 PM, meaggiimoo said:

I found an 1884 CC silver dollar in its original 'Uncirculated' box and packaging with the certificate. PCGS and eBay have some high prices for them but it's hard to believe that's what they sell for... 

Make sure you use COMPLETED or SOLD auction data to get accurate pricing on Ebay.  People there have asking prices 50-100% over FMV, sometimes MORE !! 

Better to check recent auctions on Heritage Auctions and/or Great Collections.  I'm sure each sold a few 1884's in MS-62'ish condition in the last few weeks.

If FMV is about $300 to buy the coin, figure selling price is $250 or so.

Any interest in KEEPING the coin and adding to it ?

Welcome to the NGC Boards, Ed.  Whatever coins you decide to collect or learn about, we probably have an expert here to help you !! 

If you decide to pursue the larger Trophy coins that some of us like -- Morgan Silver Dollars and Double Eagles -- certainly let us know that, too. 

I wonder if Henri wins this auction....will he CROW in the morning to celebrate ? 

That coin is so worn I wonder what did it...could it really have been circulated for a long time ?  Maybe kept in a pocket of change which added to the friction ?  That coin is REALLY worn.

They must have done studies...what kind of time frame and what kind of "wear" is needed to create that flattish appearance ?