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JKK
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Posts posted by JKK
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On 3/16/2024 at 10:29 AM, Kinlar said:
Hey all, I'm brand new to this. Looking to start collecting ancient Roman coins. I have no clue where to even start, any guidance would be much appreciated.
Okay. Roman coins span eight hundred years or thereabouts and that's not counting the extra thousand years of Byzantines speaking Greek and calling themselves Roman.
What timeframe do you want to collect, and what types?
Do you know much about Roman history and numismatics?
Do you have any of the accepted references, and if not, would you like suggestions?
How's your familiarity with the Greek alphabet? Other alphabets you read?
Are you interested in any other ancients that aren't Roman?
Have you yet bought any, and if so, would you like to learn good methods of attribution?
Do you accept that you aren't going to get rich at this? (Most of the US collecting newbies do not, until they get the Ice Bath of Reality. I'd expect better from even a budding antiquarian.)
The good news for you is that antiquarians have a way of being the most pleasant numismatists and historians you're likely to meet. Those of us who have been at it a while take pride in that. Ask away.
That'll do for now as food for thought.
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On 3/11/2024 at 5:33 AM, double ddo said:
If that's truly the case, I don't see how it was platted, I got it out of a tin box that I bought from an elderly woman that was full of pennies. This coin an several others in that box were wrapped in a paper towel an sealed in a zip lock bag. The lady didn't plate it for sure and I'll be nice, I darn sure didn't plate it. Your reply has no depth an offers nothing that would lead me in the right direction. You tried, thank you
It's certainly plated. As for the rest of what you say here, it doesn't even demonstrate notable critical thinking efforts. I can think of no reason anyone would bother to lead you in the right direction after that.
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On 3/8/2024 at 7:13 PM, Youngmoola said:
@idhair n jkk ur names speak for it self😭
I apologize. I didn't realize you were special needs.
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If you threaten to kick the seller in the head, you might get a better price. Might be worth a try.
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On 3/5/2024 at 3:29 PM, VasquezJ said:
Has completely full luster and looks like it was ways never circulated. Maybe not quite a MS 70 but I think a grade right under that.
If you know the grading standards for 69 and 70, then why are you asking anyone else for their opinion? Send it in so that it can get real quiet around here.
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I think part of the problem is that you're believing the slab without question. I am not sure that is merited.
I checked Aorta for draped, cuirassed bust right; that's obverse type 8) for SS's denarii. None are listed for him. Aorta isn't 100% comprehensive, just about 99.5%. All his denarii are laureate bust L (type 2; obviously not this coin) or laureate bust R, type 3) (the overwhelming majority, as in over 99%). Reverse type is 110), looks like Mars advancing right with spear and trophy. I have more faith in that ID.
If it were my coin, first I'd blow up the actual coin images in addition to showing the slab. Then I'd get in WW and look for his AR denarii, show thumbnails, to find one that looked like a match. BORTE: bust, obverse legend, reverse legend, reverse type, and exergue. Five parameters to full attribution.
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On 3/5/2024 at 2:35 AM, VasquezJ said:
Im positive its that coin sent it to NGC to get graded since last Wednesday and arrived on Thursday 9:14 am and submission was done for a 3 day turn around Walkthrough and over a week and a half later and status is still sitting on Received but was told I would receive coin back before the end of this week. Every minute that goes by feels like a week seriously but hopefully the grading process start today and get my coin before the end of this week.
Well, when it comes back bagged, consider that your first tuition. As long as the otherwise wasted money buys you some knowledge, it wasn't a total loss.
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There is one. It's called the world coin can, and while it's highly unlikely to yield up your retirement, you can find some cool stuff and learn a lot.
Where it is: at your local dealer. Most dealers have such a can. They might sell its contents for 3 to 6 for a dollar. (3 is usually excessive in price given that I believe most of them pay a nickel each for these.) At coin shows, many dealers have a world coin can. Funny how there is always some fat introverted old guy combing through it, taking his sweet time. What does he know that others don't?
How it is: The can is constantly changing. Many dealers replenish their inventory through collections sold to them by walk-ins, anything from Bampaw's Collections to really special stuff to more modern mint sets than the mind can comprehend. Most such replenishments involve some misc world coins, anywhere from one digit to three. The dealer knows what they are looking at, but they also do not have time to look up every world coin. They'll go through, pick out a few pieces they know are worth more (usually silver, or in truly rarely beautiful shape), and offer a pittance around 5c for the rest. Those end up in the world coin can and they are only lightly picked over until someone, perhaps you, shows up to do it right.
Why you'd care: because you can get 1800s coins, and sometimes older, without breaking a sweat. German Imperial stuff is very common, as is Filipino early 1900s. Most of it is very modern, stuff that came home from foreign trips or recent wars. But now and then there'll be something that slipped past the dealer, like the 2 real late 1700s Spanish piece I found one time. Rough shape, yeah, but bottom line is it's a Spanish Imperial piece. Also, since few dealers have any idea how to read older cashes, Chinese cash coinage is a very fertile area. (It's a lot more fertile than later Imperial silver, which seems to emanate from Phonystan.)
Yeah, you'd have to learn to puzzle out some new alphabets and scripts; it's not that hard unless you cherish ignorance. No, you still are not going to get rich. Yes, you can provide yourself with stuff to keep you busy for hours. No, you don't have to buy Krause, though their numeric systems and national devices are quite helpful; Numista and the NGC World Coin Price Guide can help you a lot. Yes, you can find gems, or at least something cool, most times you search it provided you don't do it every day (who does that anyway?). If you have a great relationship with your dealer, ask that they call you whenever there's a major influx into the can. Also, if you have completely picked over the can out front, ask if there's a larger bucket from which it's stocked. It might be a five-gallon bucket they can barely drag out front. You want to make that dealer your best ally? At some point, you'll find a silver coin they missed; rather than just shrug and pay the 20c or whatever and say 'yay me,' show it to the dealer and ask if they want to sell it separately due to the value. About 95% of them will smile, say nah, it's yours for the standard price, and think more highly of you.
There. To this there is a point. To painfully photographing damaged parking lot coins and imaginary doubled dies that are nearly always mechanical doubling, there is little.
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On 3/4/2024 at 1:23 AM, TedHartwell said:
Thank you both for your responses and also for the suggestions about including sizes and cropping future photos. This one is definitely dime-sized and fits the 18.8 mm approximate size you mentioned.
That makes sense because the date's font size is more consistent with Capped bust dimes than with the larger denomination. I would grade if FA-2, myself, but either way the wear is too heavy for it to have much value.
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I can tell you why people get testy. It is the sheer level of fantasy and the patience worn away from giving people bad news, time after time, and getting varying responses from acquiescence to questioning to pushback to illiterate insults. Do this long enough, and jading will tend to set in. Try seeing it as we do.
Everyone has this idea that they will find Big Deals in rolls, or change, or something else obtained at face value. Varieties, errors, some special unique coin--they post daily here with parking lot coins, replated steelies, and shoddy counterfeits that they are certain are Very Special (and presumably valuable and interesting). Okay, that's where they begin. We begin from the reasonable standpoint that, if such things were really that easy to find, and that valuable, they would stop being either because everyone would have found nearly all of them by now. Even a casual read of the Newbie forum supports this, as people seek validation of their supposed errors and Really Special variations, and we wearily tell them no. And yet, in spite of all common sense and even a smidge of critical thinking, the next person comes along and wants to be treated as though we have never been asked these questions before.
The answer is yes, one can have the truth if one is willing to accept it, but no, one is not entitled to be cuddled while we break the bad news.
And I'm on the gentle end of that spectrum here. We've got people so crabby and narcissistic that they are not only completely insensitive, but they brag about that as a character strength. We've also got some saints who can do a little cuddling and encouraging, and I leave that to them. In my case I reserve it for people who show special promise, which is rare; the rest of the time I just don't keep engaging.
Nothing educates us in life like learning to rotate the chessboard and see it through someone else's eyes.
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Not concerned about it. I knew his type would go there. Impotent threats are the only escalation available to someone who can't use reason and can't communicate. It works in their high school bullying habits and they expect it to work here, which it will not.
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We can't tell you that it's a replica of no value until you post pictures.
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On 2/29/2024 at 4:08 PM, Youngmoola said:
@JKK I don't respect u neither ..I'll kick on yo head if I ever see you in real life n smack u u racist
Heh. As if I have any idea, or give a rip, what race you might be. Internet macho types are hilarious, especially when they grasp at straws.
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On 2/29/2024 at 3:51 PM, Youngmoola said:
@JKK U got 1 mo time to disrespect me
No real need. You do it to yourself. But in case you want it spelled out, I definitely do not respect you.
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On 2/29/2024 at 2:42 PM, Youngmoola said:
I'm not thirsty for money I actually enjoy collecting...I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth....
Shouldn't have swallowed it. That might explain some things.
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I think it's hilarious you got so punked. Definitely send them all in to NGC. They love to slab plated quarters. Get some!
- ldhair and RonnieR131
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On 2/29/2024 at 7:16 AM, Youngmoola said:
@IDHAIR....I need no opinions from you..ur not an expert..thx n u sure can't evaluate coins right
Are you shooting for the Foo of the Week award? You're mounting a strong campaign. He's been collecting for at least twenty years. He was probably collecting when you were loading up your diapers.
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The error is called pariedolia. It's very common on modern coins, but carries no premium.
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Nothing. While there are a fair number of decent Chinese counterfeits, this one wouldn't fool a reasonably precocious YN. Try and see what happens when you run a magnet over it.
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The image is modeled after coins of Alexander, but the legend says "Aleeanaont." Not aware of any historical figure of that name appearing on coins, mainly because I'm pretty sure there aren't any. Obviously, no ancient coin would have the modern name of Greece in the Latin characters.
I normally ignore posts that can't be bothered to supply weight and diameter, even if I am pretty sure I know what it is at first look, but in this case--whatever it is, it's not an actual coin. Some sort of token, I reckon, probably worth nothing. It almost brings to mind a modern instance of the blundered legends of the Gallic breakaway emperors, on which it was evident that the diemakers weren't even literate. Those are interesting to collect for the sheer ineptitude of the legends.
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Looks like a common, worn eh-cent. No notable premium.
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I'd keep it sealed and sell it to someone willing to pay a premium to waste their time on it.
- Henri Charriere, powermad5000 and RWB
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No. It is not even a mediocre example.
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Recommends for starting to collect (Roman coins)
in Newbie Coin Collecting Questions
Posted
I get it about the appeal. I have a museum in my house; it's the size of a typical 3-ring notebook, because that's what it is. It contains coins up to twenty-five centuries old. However, given how many people show up here waving parking lot coins they think represent their early retirement, it's necessary to make clear that the money angle is rarely feasible. Glad we got that out of the way.
As for Romans, "anything before 476" is still a very broad era. I would further divide it:
Obviously, the names do not directly correspond to actual eras. They represent eras of numismatic styles. The knowledge applicable to a given coin somewhat transfers to others of that era. Put another way, if you're a stud with Republic denarii, that doesn't mean jack for Barracks Era billon antoniniani. (Get ready to learn a whole new vocabulary. Billon means debased silver; essentially copper with a sprinkling of silver in some form. It's what emperors did when they had spent the treasury broke.)
For the budget collector (and of great use even for people willing to spend a bunch of money for out-of-print references) one begins with Wildwinds. If you really get into it, and are ready to start spending money, begin with Rasiel Suárez's Aorta. Try and snag one for two figures. This is the most concentrated Roman imperial reference available. Have magnification. If you really really love this, or if it's actually less expensive (like right this moment), splurge instead for ERIC II. Unless you're a weightlifter, make sure you own a hand truck to move it around. Also by Ras, this is like Aorta but with color images, more comprehensive listings (a feat, considering Aorta's sheer density of information), easier reading (can get away with lighter mag), and continues until 1453 CE (Aorta stops the Eastern emperors just before Arcadius).
If you love this stuff, you'll end up wanting the Sear references: volumes I-V plus Greek Imperial. Another useful item is the two-volume Coinage & History of the Roman Empire. When you recover from the heart attack you get looking at the price, start looking for a cheaper version. I'd say if you see the pair for <$100, consider pulling the trigger.
The way we typically attribute ancients is by catalog numbers as well as descriptions. I've never seen anyone but me use Aorta catalog numbers, but they exist; same for ERIC II, which is like Aorta after a Hulklike transformation. Sear (S-nnn), Roman Imperial Coinage (RIC x, nnn), Sear Greek Imperial (SGI-nnn), and others exist. You won't have to dig through Wildwinds for long to see such attribution references.
Once you get into this, you'll start to see that there about about five things to be found on a Roman coin of a given size/material/weight/denomination: obverse device, obverse legend, reverse device, reverse legend, and exergue/fields. The exergue is the bottom reverse, typically the home of mint marks, but fields also matter. For example, a ghamma or thelta (you call them gamma and delta, but that's how they are pronounced in demotic Greek) oficina (sub-mint) mark in the field relates more to the exergue than to the reverse device or legend. Learn to look for and quantify those five things, and in combination with denomination, you have an attribution.
All that either gets you excited/motivated and you blew out of here early to go look at Wildwinds, or it scares f-bomb out of you and you no longer want to do this. There isn't usually middle ground. If the former, keep asking. If the latter, I get it. There's a reason antiquarians aren't as common as roll hunters and Morgan junkies.