JKK

On 3/22/2024 at 2:11 PM, powermad5000 said:

#1 - Raw coins are not worth face value until they are certified.

Think you meant to say here that they are not worth more than face value until certified. Not mentioning it to be a pedant, but because there are people who visit here who might not realize what you meant to say.

Look on the bright side. It didn't lead you to come in here, be told things you didn't want to hear, and alienate everyone as "haters." Pitfall avoided and wisdom gained. Welcome.

On 3/19/2024 at 2:20 PM, Halbrook Family said:

why does everyone think they have a million dollar penny? I have been coming here for maybe a year and I lost count how many people think they have "that" penny. 

Because they watched YourPube videos and read books that talked about making retirement money out of your pocket, and did not have the critical thinking skills to ask if that were true, why did not everyone else do it? They then saw a book called Strike It Rich with Pocket Change, and while they didn't actually read it (not their style), that confirmed for them that this was possible. Then they looked at BedwEtsy and saw ordinary-looking coins for sale for thousands and more. (They did not ask who was imbecilic enough to pay that much. It was advertised, therefore it was worth that much, end of thought process.)

All of this was enough evidence to get them checking their change. Since they were predisposed to think this was a get-rich-quick method, pareidolia took over. Rather than say:

"This has got to be bull hockey, otherwise none of these coin board dudes would even be here; they'd all be retired in the Caymans or someplace."

They said:

"Ah, I am so much smarter than these numb testes with their methodical grading and their stupid seated Liberty whatevers and their ancient stuff. I can and will find my retirement so that I don't have to struggle to pay rent any more and can quit my job watching the self-checkout. I'm sure they will hurry to confirm my newfound FY money."

If they read even a small percentage of the threads on here, or could think critically, they would not do this. They would say:

"To me, this looks like it would be very rare. I've got to be missing something because otherwise someone would already have snagged it. Please help me understand why it's not."

They'd get all sorts of sincere and helpful input, and even our crabbiest regulars (and we have some who seem perpetually constipated) would soften enough to educate them without judgment. But that's not what was wanted. What was wanted was to confirm a fantasy. They're the same people who get a FR on FacePlant from a hot-looking exotic female (at least, their profile pic says so) that expresses interest in them, and they get sucked in and taken. And instead of thinking "Why am I dumber than a bag of wet nickels?" they lament: "How could people be so cruel?" They don't want the truth, which is that they did the romantic equivalent of buying the parking lot penny off BedwEtsy.

It's even worse than using the local casino as your retirement plan. In that, at least you only lose 5-10% of your money.

On 3/17/2024 at 1:08 PM, powermad5000 said:

If I may interject here, I would take the advice of JKK hands down, but I would also like to add being where you are at in your collecting of these, that I would research what eras and figures you are looking for depicted on the coins and then buying them already certified. It is very difficult to buy these raw and know for sure exactly what you are buying. That takes a significant amount of knowledge to do so buying them already certified would eliminate some of the guess work for you.

The issue there is that for the least expensive/learning items--late Imperial bronzes from AE2-AE4--certified examples that are no more expensive than the $8-15 for which one can normally buy them would be quite elusive. You'd probably end up coughing up $40-50 for a coin that couldn't be worth $40 no matter what shape it was in. For that cost, the OP could obtain several pieces and start the attribution learning curve. Which would be needed in any case, because when you look at a slabbed ancient, you often don't have a catalog number or any full description of the text. What good is it to pay that much for what isn't even a complete attribution?

So if the OP were to go that route, it probably means spending triple and obtaining in return only a pretty piece of plastic plus at least the emperor, a grade, and rough era--information that's just the beginning of proper attribution, and would be available from reputable sellers anyway. I can't see that as worth $40 extra. The emperor is easy enough to discern from a halfway readable obverse legend. The era, obviously, is tethered to the emperor (who might in fact be an empress). The best hope would be that someone screwed up and sent it in, or spent too much for the slab, and has decided to bite the heavy loss bullet and sell it for what it's really worth rather than what they paid. That's a lot of dumbth to hope for.

If the OP were into aurei, or something else commonly faked, that'd be different. Even for spendy silver, particularly of rare emperors, it would make sense to go the slab route. But the biggest takeaway there is to buy from reputable sellers, of which I can recommend several with whom I do not hesitate to spend money. And I have never yet spent my own money on a slabbed ancient. I probably never will.

On 3/17/2024 at 10:44 AM, Kinlar said:

i wont lie that is extremely intimidating but im willing to do some learning. small steps of course 

Small steps are wise; then try and start with one era or two. Cheapest are bronzes from 192-410 CE; figure to spend $8-15 depending on condition. Try and look them up on Wildwinds. If you are confused, post them here and ask for help. Adhere to the posting guidelines: weight and diameter, sharp cropped photos of both sides, properly rotated.

A word on posting pictures and supporting info: Some people here are nice about omitting or skipping some of those details; I am cruel about it, and will simply ignore the post even if I could still answer the question. To me, it's basic respect to present the coin such that it makes helping you as easy as possible; do so, and I'll spend a lot of time giving you hints so you can run back to WW and see what you learn.

(Look at this forum any day for a bunch of examples of how to do it wrong. I find it incredible that someone would waltz in, want help, but refuse to participate in the help. It's like the Prince's car's stuck and two people show up to assist but need help pushing, and the Prince refuses because the Prince is entitled to the help of lower minions. Truth told, I block them, to remind myself never to bother helping them. Don't be like them. I can deal with lack of knowledge, but willful/lazy disrespect is another story. We can tell when people are at least trying.)

When you get sick to death of Constantine and Constantius, you'll know you've done a pretty deep dive on that era. The knowledge will somewhat transfer to silver and billon coinage as well, such as Diocletian's silver-washed folles.

I think part of the problem is that you're believing the slab without question. I am not sure that is merited.

I checked Aorta for draped, cuirassed bust right; that's obverse type 8) for SS's denarii. None are listed for him. Aorta isn't 100% comprehensive, just about 99.5%. All his denarii are laureate bust L (type 2; obviously not this coin) or laureate bust R, type 3) (the overwhelming majority, as in over 99%). Reverse type is 110), looks like Mars advancing right with spear and trophy. I have more faith in that ID.

If it were my coin, first I'd blow up the actual coin images in addition to showing the slab. Then I'd get in WW and look for his AR denarii, show thumbnails, to find one that looked like a match. BORTE: bust, obverse legend, reverse legend, reverse type, and exergue. Five parameters to full attribution.

There is one. It's called the world coin can, and while it's highly unlikely to yield up your retirement, you can find some cool stuff and learn a lot.

Where it is: at your local dealer. Most dealers have such a can. They might sell its contents for 3 to 6 for a dollar. (3 is usually excessive in price given that I believe most of them pay a nickel  each for these.) At coin shows, many dealers have a world coin can. Funny how there is always some fat introverted old guy combing through it, taking his sweet time. What does he know that others don't?

How it is: The can is constantly changing. Many dealers replenish their inventory through collections sold to them by walk-ins, anything from Bampaw's Collections to really special stuff to more modern mint sets than the mind can comprehend. Most such replenishments involve some misc world coins, anywhere from one digit to three. The dealer knows what they are looking at, but they also do not have time to look up every world coin. They'll go through, pick out a few pieces they know are worth more (usually silver, or in truly rarely beautiful shape), and offer a pittance around 5c for the rest. Those end up in the world coin can and they are only lightly picked over until someone, perhaps you, shows up to do it right.

Why you'd care: because you can get 1800s coins, and sometimes older, without breaking a sweat. German Imperial stuff is very common, as is Filipino early 1900s. Most of it is very modern, stuff that came home from foreign trips or recent wars. But now and then there'll be something that slipped past the dealer, like the 2 real late 1700s Spanish piece I found one time. Rough shape, yeah, but bottom line is it's a Spanish Imperial piece. Also, since few dealers have any idea how to read older cashes, Chinese cash coinage is a very fertile area. (It's a lot more fertile than later Imperial silver, which seems to emanate from Phonystan.)

Yeah, you'd have to learn to puzzle out some new alphabets and scripts; it's not that hard unless you cherish ignorance. No, you still are not going to get rich. Yes, you can provide yourself with stuff to keep you busy for hours. No, you don't have to buy Krause, though their numeric systems and national devices are quite helpful; Numista and the NGC World Coin Price Guide can help you a lot. Yes, you can find gems, or at least something cool, most times you search it provided you don't do it every day (who does that anyway?). If you have a great relationship with your dealer, ask that they call you whenever there's a major influx into the can. Also, if you have completely picked over the can out front, ask if there's a larger bucket from which it's stocked. It might be a five-gallon bucket they can barely drag out front. You want to make that dealer your best ally? At some point, you'll find a silver coin they missed; rather than just shrug and pay the 20c or whatever and say 'yay me,' show it to the dealer and ask if they want to sell it separately due to the value. About 95% of them will smile, say nah, it's yours for the standard price, and think more highly of you.

There. To this there is a point. To painfully photographing damaged parking lot coins and imaginary doubled dies that are nearly always mechanical doubling, there is little.