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Posts posted by JKK
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8 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:Better be careful JKK, they might want you to become a moderator, or worse-AN ADMIN. Lol! I have always tried to do it correctly but spoonfuls I hate not getting any response at all. Even a Karen you have lost your mind is better than nothing.
Fortunately I've done nothing to deserve such board punishment.
See it from the other point of view. Someone posts a coin and wants to know something about it. This particular coin not only does not interest me in the slightest, I know zero about it. Anything I might say would speak from great ignorance and apathy. What on earth could I possibly say? "Hi, I know nothing about this and don't even collect those, but I'm such a Mary Worth that I have to have a post in every thread so this is yours. Good luck!" That's what it would come down to. How idiotic would that be on my part? Many boards have That Person. I believe we should not be That Person.
If people do not respond, it's because they don't know or don't care (which may sound cold but is not an unacceptable outlook provided it is not rudely voiced), and anyone posting a question has to make peace with that because it's the only realistic reaction to expect from anyone who can't help.
- Marquez-Collector, KarenHolcomb and Gsone
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When you post a question about a coin or coins, it's worth remembering that the people giving you answers--unless it is specifically about an NGC policy matter or submission--are volunteer hobbyists who do this for fun. They are not speaking for NGC; they speak only for themselves, and they want to help people. When you do a good job of posting your inquiry, you increase your chances of helpful replies, because you show respect for the volunteers' time.
Please do:
- Ask a question, or multiple questions. We need to know what to focus on. Authenticity? Grade? Identification? Value? All of these?
- Think about your questions. "What would this grade at NGC?" and "What grade would you give this coin?" are two very different questions. If you ask the first one, only people who know a lot about NGC's ways have much to offer you. "How much is this worth?" is another nebulous question. Better: "What would a dealer pay me for this?" Or: "What would a dealer sell this for?"
- Post clear photos of the entire obverse, reverse, and if necessary the edge. If need be, add zoomed photos of specific features, but always clear shots of both full sides.
- Post all pictures of a given coin in the same thread.
- Accept that if you have photographic limitations, and you keep posting badly photographed coins, you'll keep being told they're not good enough to use to answer your question. You can't expect everyone to read all your threads and know your circumstances, be they poverty or Parkinson's or can'tbebothereditis. It's not their fault your photos can't or won't get better, even if it is also not always your own fault.
- Use a thread title that describes the coin(s), so that people who know the subject matter are likelier to read the thread. If you just inherited Bampaw's silver dollar collection which you can see spans the period 1850-1921, you could title it "Evaluating silver dollar collection 1850-1921." People who know a lot about those silver dollars will see it and be likely to help you. "Grading advice" is bad; everyone wants grading advice. "Morgan dollar grading advice" is good. "Is this fake?" is bad. "Is this Chinese silver coin fake?" is good.
- Post only once per coin. (If you have received a huge collection, and you want to start with a picture of the whole hoard with zoomed shots of parts, that's no problem. This guideline is intended to keep people from slamming multiple fully photographed coins into a single thread, making it difficult to figure out which one the answers are talking about. So if it's a hoard, and you single out some for close scrutiny, go with new threads for each of those.)
- If the picture files are too large in terms of data, learn to make them smaller without losing necessary information. Paint.net is a free image editor for Windows. Open your pictures in it, crop them, and save them as .jpgs. Look at what sizes they are now. This is too easy.
- If there is any question of identification or authentication, include weight in grams and diameter in millimeters. If you don't know the metric system, use an online converter. Weight is one of the key diagnostics of authenticity and unless the coin is too obviously bogus to bother, you will be asked for it. Just include it with your first post.
- Tell us what you know, or what you believe to be the case, about the coin. It's okay to be incorrect.
- Understand that the term "melt" does not automatically mean someone plans to melt the coin down, nor is anyone suggesting you should. It refers simply to the value of the metal for its own sake. Do not freak out when someone says "melt" about Bampaw's Morgan dollars. We really do not want or expect you to throw it in a blast furnace, all right?
- Use punctuation. Being easy to read works to your benefit. When you write a twelve-line paragraph with no periods or commas, people tune you out. For those who need reminders, this , is a comma. You use it to separate phrases, more or less. This . is a period. You use it to end most sentences. Hitting Enter will insert a paragraph break. You use this between series of thoughts. Live them. Love them. Use them. because ill tell u what really suxors is when some1 posts sententses like this 1 4 about half a page its impossibel 2 read and some people including me will prob not finish readin it which means u arent gettin as many respontses think about it ur only hurtin ur own cozz notice how stooped this reads ur in affect makin urself ten times harder 2 help and frankly its disrespectfull 2 assume entellegent people should do all that extra work 4 ur sake now kinely clean up ur act and rite like u at least got thru 6ixth grade im glad we had this little talk
- Come prepared to accept responsive answers.
- Brace yourself to learn that Bampaw or Opa, always considered the family's Great Numismatist, may not have been so great at this. No one seeks to offend your relative's legacy, but the coin must be called what it is.
- Be patient. No one who doesn't know the answer is going to post "I don't know." It can take days to a week for someone to notice.
- Remember that some inquiries may require research, for which volunteers are not being paid, and are doing as they have time.
- Expect that opinions may vary, even among experienced numismatists.
- Realize that if you're rude and/or difficult, your problem is not the people who take time to fight with you. Your problem is the people who, without a word, mark you down as someone not to bother with in the future--because you have no idea who or how many they are, and thus have no power to alleviate that diagnosis.
Kindly do not:
- Just post pictures without giving any indication of what you want to learn.
- Post glare-obscured, blurry, or otherwise poor photos.
- Post only partial pictures of errors or damage.
- Complain that your pics are too big to post. Use an image editor to crop and save them as .jpgs.
- Get defensive when told your pics are not good. Maybe you're bad at photography; maybe you don't have a good camera; maybe the photography gods just don't like you. If you can do better, do so. If you cannot do better, than just accept that this limits how much we can help you.
- Post a new thread for every photo of the same coin.
- Post new threads in the same forum, or other forums, with reference to the same coin. Once suffices. The shotgun approach makes one look impatient and immature.
- Use a meaningless thread title like "looking for advice" or "no idea what 2 do" or "plz help." Those tell people nothing about the discussion except that it was begun by someone who picks meaningless thread titles.
- Omit weight and diameter, unless they are completely irrelevant to your question.
- Get annoyed if you don't like the answers. If you disagree with them, fine; act on your views.
- Ask us to tell you how we know it's a counterfeit. While that's a legit question on its face, the problem is that even if you didn't mint the fake, those who make them are always looking for ways to improve. We frown upon supplying helpful feedback to criminals, and so should you. So no, don't ask us that. And if we tell you politely that we aren't going into detail, don't get annoyed because you don't like that answer.
- Grouse about not getting any replies. No one knows everything; no one has unlimited time; sometimes no one knows the answer.
- Come in telling how many Youtube videos you have watched about coins. This will lower your credibility.
- Use Photobucket links. If you do, don't anticipate that people will use them. Photobucket has been connected with numerous malware and virus infections.
- Spell 'nickel' as 'nickle.' Whether referring to the element or the five-cent coin, this misspelling is a very bad look.
If you take the time to do this correctly, you can learn a lot more here than if you skip important steps.
If you do not take the time to do this correctly, some posters may decide that their time is better spent helping other people.
Lastly, here is a Cliff's Notes version that would take care of 95% of the most common disappointed inquiries. If you want to post yours anyway, fine, but just please kindly do not engage in a protracted and dullard debate when you are told that:
- Your 1804 silver dollar is a bad counterfeit. Look up authentic examples and compare closely.
- Your 1776 Continental dollar is a bad counterfeit or a souvenir replica. Many were churned out.
- What you think is a double die is almost surely mechanical doubling, which carries no premium.
- What you think is a mint error is likely post-mint damage, and your coin is worth face value.
- Your "silver" non-1943 penny is plated, replated, has had the plating come off, is altered, or somesuch.
- Your "bronze" 1943 penny is altered somehow, and is worth very little.
- Your Greek "silver" coin with flanges sticking out of its edges is a bad cast counterfeit.
- Your cheesy-looking brass token is not gold, and is not a coin. Any clown can mint brass tokens with bad designs.
- Cleaning your coins is a stupid idea. Yes, even for you. You, too. If you ask how, listen to the people who tell you not to do so.
- If you cite Etsy as an authority, people will laugh their heads off with good reason. This is horrible for your cred.
- If you cite a Youtube video as an authority, people will laugh with good reason. This is bad for your cred.
- If you have more than three supposed error coins you found in change, and plan to post them all, the odds are overwhelming that none of them are mint errors worthy of note. If you keep posting these without seeming to learn, people might conclude that learning is not your thing.
There, that rounds up the usual suspects. I'm not saying those answers are automatically always right. However, as the strongest probabilities, they should be presumed correct unless they can be proven wrong. If you have one child and something is broken in the house, not by you or your spouse, typically the child did it. If you can prove the kid innocent, fair enough; but you know the kid almost surely did it. If you argue about a "double die" at fatuous length when it's clear you don't know what one really is, you will look like the kid with soot all over him insisting he didn't really dig around in the fireplace.
Don't be that kid.
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Opinions, comments, additions, suggestions?
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Looks like mechanical doubling conferring no premium.
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The photo that says the most, to me, is the very last one edge on. I see one side, the obverse I think, ballooning up much larger than I've ever seen a device naturally sticking up. I try to figure out how it could possibly have gotten that way. It's like someone hit the reverse very hard with the round part of a ball-peen hammer, deforming it. Yet I don't see the effects of that on the reverse that I would expect. So I do not know what to make of it, but that deformity combined with other factors makes me very edgy. One of those factors is the too-perfect circle/strike/planchet; that can happen in ancients, but it is very rare. The other is that the overall look is consistent with known counterfeits, and Alex's silver coins are targets for the counterfeiters.
I can't say for sure it's bogus. I can say for sure I wouldn't take a chance on it.
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Nice coins, TetonJoe. If you're in the Teton Valley, too bad I'm not going up there with my wife to visit our niece in Idaho Falls--I'd swing by and lug my ancients reference library. I'd be stuck there for a week with nothing to do but endure my sister-in-law, and nothing would be more of a save than burying my head in ancient coins for as much of that period as possible.
You have coins of more than nominal value there. Nice Domitian denarii, like that one, can be in the $40-80 range. I'm betting the drachm, if that's the correct denomination, is in that range. The L. Julius silver, likely more. Claudius As (yes, that was a real denomination), same neck of the woods. If I owned what you pictured, and someone offered me $250 for the lot, knowing no more than I do right now, I would turn it down. If they offered me $500, though, I'd have to give it some thought.
If your goal is to sell them, then you need them appraised so that your idea of fair value coincides with the market. If you want to keep them, great--take good care of them. If they are in their original flips, you'll want to put them in modern flips to protect them from PVC, but don't throw away the old ones--hang onto them for the information and make sure you can connect the old flips to their successors. I don't know how much most ancients gurus would charge to appraise them, but I think it would be less than their value.
I can understand not wanting to leave them with anyone. However, that makes appraisal problematic. I suggest that you develop trust and respect for someone you can become safe leaving them with. If you want to PM me, I can perhaps name some names and make suggestions.
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58 minutes ago, TetonJoe said:
Could anyone provide some direction in getting a small collection of ancient coins valued?
We have about 70 in original cards that were passed down from a long-time collector/family member.
Thank you.
Short answer: it's difficult.
Are they all identified by catalog numbers? Do you know whether they are Roman, Greek, other; silver, gold, bronze, etc.? Those are important factors.
I think you mean that they are in flips (with clear plastic set in cardboard) and that they still have written on the cardboard whatever was on there when bought. If so, that's where you'd look for catalog numbers. You could always post one; if you do, please post close-up front and back images including everything that's on the flip. Weight and diameter are also helpful. (I know that the flip has mass. Just weigh it anyway. Flips usually weigh about 2g including staples.) Ideally you would post the one you think is nicest, the one you think is oldest, and the one you think is most representative overall. The idea here is to get a sense of the whole collection.
You see, if they are all heavily worn late Roman bronzes of Constantine, or Constantius, or someone else whose coins we are drowning in, you would not want to spend a ton of money on that. But they might be Greek, or Roman Republic, or from gods know where else. If they were early Roman Empire pieces in nice shape, they might be worth a lot more.
If you have a local dealer, that person may be able to provide appraisal. If the information on the flips is correct to catalog numbers, that will be much easier and thus not so expensive. If that information is incomplete or incorrect--and you'd be appalled how much of what is written on ancient coin flips is baloney--the dealer will have to research the correct identification. The dealer will probably charge for that, and that's no guarantee the dealer will be correct.
None of the local dealers in my area (Portland, OR) have the knowledge to do a quick and reliable job on ancients. Our club's ancients expert, who is my mentor, can do so. I can as well, though it will take me longer because I haven't seen as many coins as L has. I know there are at least a few other ancients gurus in this area, and Portland has about three million people, so that may help you take a guess at the likelihood of local expertise in your area.
I hope to see your pictures, and then we can perhaps better assist.
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4 hours ago, Adventureneverstops said:
Hello everyone, I have question, a guy that i know i saying that one of his friends has a 1804 dollar and its worth alots of money. So he asked me if I can find out how much its worth?
I personally don't know where that person got that dollar from?
My question is I i post the picture of that dollar here and some how its no a legit dollar or maybe stolen. Am I legally responsible for that or do any authorities come after me? Or it's safe here on ngccoin to post picture? Please i need advice i don't wanna do somebody a favor and get in trouble on the other hand.
First of all, the odds are astronomical against it being genuine. Smart money says assume it's fake until proven real. So my initial guess is that it won't be worth $1, and that no effort expended on it is worth your time.
I don't think anyone here is likely to be able to give you legal advice. However, if you have reason to believe that the coin is stolen or counterfeited, especially if you are enabling these guys to entertain the fantasy that it's real, then surely you are concerned enough to contact the authorities and see if it also concerns them.
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Consider this: it is easier for corrosion to wear off a coin in circulation than for metal to wear off, at least in most cases. So if some of the coin's surface metal reacted with the environment to produce a softer material, and that material wore off somewhat, it could indeed result in a net loss of weight. From the photographs, the corrosion seems to have advanced to what we'd call pitting, so that would mean extensive reaction.
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2 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:
I think it was but they are all a blur so I shall look anyway. I still have faith sensei. I do hope I spelled that correctly.
Well, i hadn't looked there yet and it will make for an educational read, but did not answer my question. Although it did remind me that UVC is universal variety code and DMR is Die Marriage Registry. But doesn't cover the numbers that follow the letters. Idk? My head is pretty worn out about now so Ima stop for tonight. I REALLY need to hurry up and get a microscope. Shew!.
A die marriage registry, I believe, would mean a listing of known obverse and reverse dies, and which were ever used together. With older US coins, for example, the number of dies can be quite finite. I have a 1794 cent that is from an obverse die that developed a crack diagonally through the 4 in the date. Through such tiny cues, we can decide exactly which obverse die that is, and then which reverse dies were used with it (and of course, from that, the die state...for example, my cent is a medium die state; if the crack were longer, I think that means late die state). I would assume that the number is an identifier of one particular die marriage.
If UVC is universal variety code, that would probably mean a unique numeric identifier of a catalogued variety. Some glorious, devoted enthusiasts probably set out to compile a definitive catalogue of varieties, and this is the designator for this particular variation.
- KarenHolcomb and Crawtomatic
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I don't know most of those (see? oh, ye of excessive faith), but CONECA has a nice glossary that may lead you in the direction of answers. If that one was among the ten glossaries, then I apologize for pointing toward already-trodden ground.
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For ancients, my resources are:
Aorta by Rasiel Suarez. For Roman coinage, the indispensable tool that enables me to take what I can read and use it to figure out what I can't. Incredible work. If I had to get rid of all but one book, this is the most concentrated value, so it would stay.
This is where I got my BORTE identification rubric: bust, obverse legend, reverse legend, type (reverse), exergue/fields. Once I satisfy myself that this coin is an AE4 (for example) of Cornholius with obverse legend 24) and reverse legend 97), with ASIRM in exergue, I know that my coin is under Cornholius's AE4s and I can ignore anything that doesn't have all three of those markers. That may narrow me down to about five coins, and I can then match up the other variables. Pretty soon I know exactly what I have. Suarez isn't exhaustive (no one is, that I know of), but he is as near exhaustive as my budget can obtain. His only fault, from my standpoint, is that later Eastern emperors are considered Byzantine and thus beyond the scope (thus, no Arcadius). I'll pardon him that for the sake of the many, many other Roman coins where he's enabled me to reach into the middle of all that information and say exactly what I've got. I take a little pad, write vertically B O R T E, fill in what I know or think, then start looking--if need be, using Bruck or Van Meter or even Sear to help me along.
Late Roman Bronze Coinage by Guido Bruck. Helps me to make sense of what I'm seeing, and narrow down where in Aorta to look.
The Handbook of Roman Imperial Coins by David Van Meter. Like Bruck, rarely the destination but often lights the pathway.
All the David R. Sear books, including Byzantine and Greek Imperial. I wanted these, and spent the shocking sums for them, so that I would be able to give a positive recognized ID to most Mediterranean ancients.
Classical Deception by Wayne G. Sayles. A great description of how ancient coins were minted, and how they were and are faked.
Wildwinds. Not a book, but an excellent site with many examples, photos, and descriptions. Unlike all the rest, it's legend-searchable and exergue-searchable.
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I just acetoned a few rolls of MS Jeffs, and I didn't detect any lasting evidence that I had done so except that the PVC slime was now truly gone.
What you need to know about posting coins for inquiry
in Newbie Coin Collecting Questions
Posted
What he seems too polite to tell you is that he has not misspelled 'Condor.' His name does not refer to the enormous scavenging birds of California and the Andes. 'Conder' refers to a type of British 1800s tokens popular with some collectors. I don't collect them myself, but I have a sneaking suspicion he does. Anyway, you might consider adjusting your spelling going forward.