GoldFinger1969

Yeah, you might get 1-time buyers of a 1907 HR from someone who reads about the coin or ASG, but the odds of someone forking over $6,000 for a Liberty Seated is pretty much confined to hard-core collectors.

A coin like that is strictly numismatic, collector, or registry needed. So yeah, big risk. Now....there may be some risk with a 1907 High Relief Saint, too. But at least there you are buying a unique coin -- a Double Eagle -- getting 1 ounce of gold ($2,000 today), getting a very famous sculptor's most famous work, getting what some consider the most beautiful coin ever produced by the United States, etc. I'd be OK buying a premium 1907 HR Saint for $20,000 and then watching it lose half its value if I bought at exactly the wrong time. I'd be less forgiving if I bought a mass-produced nothing-special quarter or half-dollar etc.

I think most Americans, even those in the investor class, are not aware of our rich history and artistry involving our currency and bills. I know I wasn't and I'm a voracious reader and historian.

Excellent points, WC.....as I/we mentioned above.....as you get an increasingly sophisticated (financially) populace more inclined to save for their retirements and basic needs....they will learn about having some PMs in their portfolio and possibly segue over to numismatic coins either as a substitute (i.e., generic Saints in place of Eagles/Buffalos) or as an addition.

Only pennies on the dollar ? Did you buy alot of stuff "high" or it just never moved up ? I'd say on balance my stuff, going back 20 years or so, is up because of the low prices I paid for some silver and gold coins, esp. bullion or quasi-bullion. No nieces or nephews or friends of the family who are into coins ? What about responsible financial investors....someone like that might appreciate coins as a quasi-investment. Nothing wrong either with enjoying the proceeds, esp. if $$$ are tight.

Can you provide a link ? Not sure what you are referring to.

I'm not a dealer, just a collector. But I do think that the hobby would be worse if not for dealers. Financial gain has NOTHING to do with my enjoyment of the hobby. I would only hope if the prices on stuff I already own were to take a big hit, that I could buy my Wishlist Coins at a nice discount. James, my coins are a pleausre, not a financial resource I count on. Like you it's nice if I bought them at a good time/price but it's the enjoyment of the coins that matters most to me.

Unreal....again, limited supply to create gouging in the secondary market.

Yup.....I hope to buy a 1907 HR which will cost a multiple of the gold bullion content. Hopefully, it appreciates but if it goes up 40% in price or down 25% from the price I pay I will not be selling/buying. Of course, if I had one and it went up like 3x in value in a year or two because of a bubble-spike or something, then I might take the money and run and hope to buy back later at post-crash prices.

Right, there are certain levels at which the price spikes up a ton. It's also why a "+" or CAC designation can be worth alot to price at the inflection points.

Please list the changes you would want at a show like FUN which I attended for the 1st time earlier this year.

My own experience is that as a person who bought occasional gold and silver bullion from the U.S. Mint and/or LCS....eventually I got into other gold (Saints) and silver (Morgans, commemoratives) coins. I had never even heard of Saint-Gaudens coins I think until the 2009 UHR. Ironic, because a family member who was buying gold for close to 20 years while I did financial work for them was in fact buying Saints from Blanchard, probably mentioned it to me (the specific type), but I never put 2 and 2 together and followed up.

Yes, it's just that at the time this article was written (2017) it was 27 or 28 years past the Coin Bubble peak and in the past Scott Travers talked about moving on from coins that had gotten slammed. It's possible he just likes this particular one. I was just surprised an actual hardcore collector/dealer was still holding something from the Coin Bubble 27 years later (I assume it was purchased then, because I can't see that price paid and the subsequent decline from buying it anytime after the 1990's). Gotcha....and it might be a particular type that Travers likes, so no argument still holding it. What makes it stranger is that the coin at $6K probably is UP from recent lows and the post-Bubble crash yet it is stil down over 80%. That's a REAL SHELLACKING that is probably in the extremis. I would think that trophy or high-end ultra-rares would go down less just because they have deep-pocketed buyers willing to pony up at a certain level, unlike Morgans that can go down 75% and the price can't move up because there are thousands at the grade level available.

We talk about this in other threads, thought that this quote from an article a few years ago might elicit some interesting responses. "...coin dealer and longtime consumer advocate Scott Travers, lamented the fact that a classic high-population quarter that he owned had lost significant value (from $34,000 to $6,000 USD) in recent years. He pointed out that the United States Mint had a customer base approaching one million people and proposed that somehow the coin industry, through better outreach, could bring those buyers into the classic coin market–thereby firming up the market for his coin. Charles asked to see Scott’s coin and commented on how nice it was and that he wished that it, and all other coins like it, had maintained their value but then offered a riposte: the U.S. Mint customer is not a classic coin customer because classic coins are now too expensive for them! Scott replied, saying that the average Mint customer spends more than that over the course of the year. Without seeing the data Scott is referring to, one can assume that, given the fact that the Mint does not offer $6,000 coins, any collector that is using the U.S. Mint as a primary source for coins is spending significantly less than $6,000 on a per-coin basis. One also wonders, with a per capita GDP at just above $58,000, how many collectors in the United States have the resources to buy even one coin at such a price level. If we are bemoaning how cheap $6,000 coins are compared to where they used to be, then you have to wonder: who is it, exactly, that we expect to sweep in and buy all this stuff?" Folks..."Charles" is a 13-year old collector in the article. Complete article here: https://coinweek.com/opinion/at-the-ana-many-attempts-to-bridge-the-coin-collecting-divide/ Lots of information to discuss...the specific coin that Travers is down on (I'm surprised it's down 80% because it looks like he paid a 1989 Bubble price and in other articles he talks about selling out of them and just moving on and taking your losses)....the Mint's customer base and how many transition to numismatic coins.....how much Mint customers spend on coins annually versus more hardcore collectors.

Thanks, there's a quote there I want to discuss more but I am going to give it its own thread so as not to impinge on this one.

Can't find that article, but another coin quote from the Travers article: "...the no-motto 1858 Liberty Seated quarter. On May 26, 1989, the Bluesheet listed this coin at $14,900 in MS-65 as certified by either PCGS or NGC. The Insider’s Guide to U.S. Coin Values lists the same coin’s value in 1993 at less than half that amount–just $7,000."

As for me, I don't ignore anybody. If you are the person at the center of this debate and are simply joking around within a thread I think that's OK. But just be careful to not cross any line. We've got some great people posting here and great threads, let's keep it that way !

I did have the Travers article, link is here: https://www.usgoldexpert.com/articles/selling-those-investment-coins/

I think that is what RobinHood App lets you do.

The appreciation during The Bubble for the pure-numismatic coins like Barbers, Liberty Quarters and Half Dollars, Morgans, etc.....seems to have run up and down far more than those tied to bullion, either wholly or in-part like Saint-Gaudens gold coins.

Name sounds familiar, I may have the article. I'll look around and report back.

Gold is actually "fairly" liquid relative to the ETF. The SEC, Fed, and financial commentators have noted the problems in having a liquid ETF holding non-liquid assets (thinly traded junk-bonds, small cap stocks, corporate bonds, etc.). Needless to say, during a downdraft in prices -- or even if 1 or 2 or 3 big holders (or a large number of holders, if they each own equal stakes) want out -- you could have a selling vortex. Holding tangible assets like art or baseball cards or coins would probably result in bid-ask spread multiples higher than anything you see now. I could see a 5-7% spread between the Bid and Ask to compensate the market makers and/or holders of the assets to make a market in the underlying ownership.

Do you have any knowledge about No Motto Liberty Seated Half Dollars that was referenced above ? Some NM LSHD went from $39,000 down to about $13,000 acording to the article. I am totally unfamiliar with the coin and pricing.

(1) Wait a second Dena....if "going forward we will just delete entire threads" then you WILL be letting troublemakers derail threads. If a troll hopped onto the Roger Burdette Saint Gaudens Book thread and you delete it, invaluable information is lost to all the innocent parties (and future readers) who can't see it. This is why I asked about saving as a PDF a thread's content. (2) I myself haven't seen anything that would rise to a serious TOS violation in the threads I am active in (admittedly, I can't read everything here). I think it would be useful that if you see someone violating a TOS...post in the thread (highlight it in Red and quote the offending comments if you delete the original) and state that if a future post or comment violated TOS that a suspension will be forthcoming. (3) Let someone know they have crossed the line. Passions can get high, mostly on coin debates, but if things go off-topic or personal, give them a chance to correct the mistake. (3) Whatever you do, please don't punish innocent posters/readers of these forums. Deleting active threads or threads with fantastic information can simply not be replicated. We have some VIPs who graciously donated their time to make fantastic comments (like RWB) and to eliminate their comments would be a crime. Thanks for considering my views, Dena.

FYI.....recent sales for the 3 coins are about $125 for the 1880-S Morgan....$2,000 for MS65 Saints (generics). Is the No Motto Liberty Seated MS-66 for a generic common year (no date was given) ? I couldn't look up a price without a date. If grading is easier today, then maybe it pays to also get a price for an MS-67. Would show less of a price drop I presume.