GoldFinger1969

I would have loved it. Maybe the idea just needs time, Roger.

Agreed....I certainly am aware that FUN may be working year-to-year with no financial safety net and they may not be in a position to comp many individuals or organizations. My understanding is that a table/booth at FUN might run $1,000 - $1,500 for the first 3 days. Not sure if that is what FUN charges or if that is what OCCC charges FUN. Nonetheless, I think such an expenditure would be well worth it. And I wouldn't mind either being charged a nominal admission fee or having a donation jar to keep such a panel discussion going in the future. Of course, as we said in another thread, a small endowment is what is really needed to help fund new initiatives and give them a bit of financial leeway each year.

I totally disagree. The books in question are among the most popular coin series -- Saints, Morgans, Barbers, Franklins -- that we purchase and collect. You must have reached a rare dunderhead on the FUN committee. They have some very obscure talks there which I am sure are of interest to niche collectors. I don't see how they wouldn't think that someone who authored RED BOOKS like you or Bowers or your book on Saints wouldn't be of interest. The Morgan talk by Randy Campbell was very well attended at FUN 2020. I wouldn't mind an author, a collector, and a dealer on a panel discussion for a particular coin. Missed opportunity....

Very short-sighted. My club makes tables available at cost or we give them away for nothing ($400 for the weekend cost to us) to other, smaller clubs or other astronomy-related non-profits. The conversation table would have been very well-received, IMO. Some people at this site and over at CT have given talks at FUN. I don't know if they were paid or comped or what.....but it definitely added to my enjoyment at my 1st FUN last year. Maybe next time I go I'll put in a plug for your idea. I like the idea of being able to buy some coin books from the authors or from one of the big supply/book sellers there....get it autographed....and maybe see a talk or two by the authors with some Q&A from the audience.

I have no problem with that....higher-ups had to be told at some point, if gold was exchanged for cash. If Saints were exchanged for modern gold coins, no-harm no-foul, but that probably required approval from higher-ups. I guess if they didn't give it, then that would require secrecy. Of course, at some time when the bags are opened folks would know that classic gold got swapped out for newer coins. BTW Roger...on the label question I wasn't implying you had a say in it. I think you got confused or my type was confusing. When the TPG's create labels, they sometimes will add famous collectors names (i.e., Duckor, Eliasburg, Simpson). See below. I thought that some of the patterns and the 1907 Extremely High Relief Saint might have the names of some of the government officials who originally owned them if the lineage could be established. I actually tracked down a catalog featuring a sale of Teddy Roosevelt coins. But I haven't seen any labels with Barber or Roosevelt or others from the 1907'ish or later time periods where they took possession of the coins.

Well, Heritage partnered with Roger Burdette to put out a 600-page book on Saints so there's that. I'm curious what a Goldberg or Stacks or Superior catalog might have especially pre-2000. THOSE might have commentaries or insights that aren't online or in print. Nothing blockbuster-wise, but interesting observations, auction or sales prices, etc.

Have you gone to FUN either on your own or as a presenter ?

Ron Gillio was a bit secretive on some of the details on his 1908 No Motto Saints hoard....other hoard finds lack details, too. I wonder if these "contacts" within the banks that had the hoards were maybe paid some $$$ and they don't want that to come out ? Maybe they were even "bought" by an equal number of modern day gold coins ?

Well, I checked the HA FUN 2020 catalog that I have against the online commentary for the 1927-D Saint-Gaudens and it matched word-for-word....the only additional extra in the catalog was a picture of a letter from one of the owners of the coin in the 1940's. I also checked the verbiage from a 1927-S Saint -- the same. So it appears no additional insight or commentary from having the printed catalog. Still, glad I have it and don't have to worry about anything lost online or downloading it myself. Whether other auction houses put their commentaries online since 2000 or so and whether they match up word-for-word I don't know. If I buy any non-HA catalogs, I'll let you all know. For sure, older catalogs -- pre-2000 -- are the most likely to have information that didn't make it onto the internet in some part.

Yes....complete collections of obscure coins or foreign or ancient coins...something where you won't find Red Books or others on them. Or if someone dumps a huge amount of MSDs or Saints, that would be worth having since you'd probably get information on some of the coins not available in the current book series on them. I believe that for Heritage, most of their information might be repeated on-line. When I get a chance, I'll double-check and report back. But I am pretty sure that some of the stuff in the FUN catalog was not on the website when the 1927-D Saint got auctioned. Plus, for some stuff, always good to have a print catalog -- you never know when something disappears off the web archives or is downsized.

Seems the catalogs are really useful for obscure or really niche coins. Since my favorites are Saint-Gaudens, Liberty DE's, and Morgans....I have book options for more information on the series.

That's awesome.....wonder if they have any unique commentary or writings on Saints or 1907 High Reliefs ?

I actually just bought a couple of catalogs on Ebay hoping for some new information on coins. Will let you all know if I got my moneys worth.

PF, for me, getting a few of the FUN catalogs last January was illuminating. The thing was, I wasn't sure they were for anybody attending their auctions or only high-end bidders. So I grabbed a few and put them in my backpack. The World Currency and U.S. Coins catalog ones are OK, nothing to want to get every year....but the Platinum Night Purple Book focused on the auction of the Duckor 1927-D Saint (did you attend ?) was definitely a keeper for me. Most of the information is on the HA website but it's nice to have it in print, too.

Cited alot today ? Wow...what coin(s) did it focus on ? Surprised an auction catalog from 1927 would be cited today except in footnotes detailing a coin or type of coin's price trend. Where was the bidding -- Ebay ?

Good memory Roger.....Bowers' has some realized auction prices as high as $42 into early-1908. Bulk probably in the $30's. Price then fell as the novelty worn off....rose again during The Roaring Twenties....collapsed into 1932 to a 5% premium or so.

I think they may have had a supply in reserve. You could always just overuse the existing dies and suffer a loss in striking quality. Or wait a few days and strike other coins while waiting for dies from Philly. I suspect once you telegraphed (later phoned) Philly, even from San Francisco, you would get the dies by rail/wagon in under 2 weeks.

Isn't the Susan B. Anthony octagonal or at least non-round ? What about the Sacagawea ?

Gotcha....even if 90% of the information is recycled on the coins I have interest in, the new stuff is still worth it to me. The 1927-D FUN catalag had some letters on the coin's pedigree, comments from Steve Duckor, and I believe was 5 or 6 pages of information. Oh yeah, I was there for the auction....I videotaped it on my smartphone...friend next to me said if my hands were any higher I would have been in on the bid at $1.6 million !!!

Keeping catalogs just for the sake of catalogs I get your point. The thickest book I have from the HA FUN conference features the sale of a 1927-D Saint-Gaudens so that is a catalog I will be keeping for a very long time. Had information on that particular coin I had never seen anywhere, not even in Roger's Saints book. Coins on world currency and other U.S. coins were not as impressive and of less interest to me but still had good information. But I could see how you'd want to eventually discard older ones unless it had a unique coin or section.

Don't know about you, but I find auction catalogs fascinating. I saw my first ones early last year at FUN. Fantastic pictures, tons of information much of it new. Some anectdotal, but this is information for collectors not a doctoral thesis or rocket project where the information must be verified to the nth degree. The Heritage auction catalogs are super-expansive, full of tons of information, and almost read like books. Most impressive, as Darth Vader once said. Haven't seen any yet from Stacks or GC. Alot of the coin books cite auction catalogs from the 1940's, 1950's, and 1960's for price, description, and grade information. I bought a Sotheby's 1933 Saint-Gaudens catalog from 2002 on the only 1933 Saint ever sold. Most of the information is about the time period (1933) when the coin was made and the story that goes with the coin. I'm not sold on David Tripp's information and the position he took working for the government, but it's still good to have. Looking now at SS Central America catalogs on that hoard. Anybody else into auction catalogs ?

Wow, did they collapse that quickly ? I thought it took until after WW I for the price to fall. Bowers book had some auction prices for 1907 HR's. Regardless of time frame or price, the early sizzle did turn into a fizzle.

Then what about all those over-dates ? You know, 9/8, etc. ?

I'm not sure about you though given your level of knowledge....in fact, the information may have been supplanted by your book. It's dated 2016 so at least I know he didn't copy anything from your book. Anyway, I'll scan and highlight the key section(s)....it's just over 1 page, not very long by any stretch. I recall the dealer had some super-high end coins at the local coin show I attended. Did they get that high in price, Roger ? I thought $30 was the highest they got but maybe $35 was the first few days/weeks spike price. I'm finishing up another book on DE's today and meant to re-hit yours tomorrow. Thanks for the tip on the info in RoAC. I intend to buy the books soon. Friend offered to lend me his, but if I'm gonna read them, I want my own.

Sometimes the other mints over-struck years and maybe mint-marks, too, right ? Overstrike a year when it's 1 year old and you need the die...and maybe they did the same if San Francisco got Denver dies or vice-versa ?